Proposal for Equal Primogeniture Succession

[cepe]

I think that we should get back to the royal debate as in the proposed legislation and avoid personal belief systems and individual royal beliefs. Let's keep a good debate going.

[Duke-of-Earl]

Originally Posted by cepe

I think that we should get back to the royal debate as in the proposed legislation and avoid personal belief systems and individual royal beliefs. Let's keep a good debate going.

Agreed. Always count on cepe to keep the topic on track

[Roslyn]

Originally Posted by cepe

I think that we should get back to the royal debate as in the proposed legislation and avoid personal belief systems and individual royal beliefs. Let's keep a good debate going.

I this this discussion provides a fine example of the very sorts of issues that arise because of the proposed legislation, the impetus for which occurred because of some - and only some - of the inherent inequalities in our system. You cannot really exclude personal belief systems, because the legislation in question relates to issues concerning personal beliefs.

I think we've all played rather well together, actually. We've had a go at politics and religion. Shall we move onto sex now?

[GracieGiraffe]

Originally Posted by Roslyn

I this this discussion provides a fine example of the very sorts of issues that arise because of the proposed legislation, the impetus for which occurred because of some - and only some - of the inherent inequalities in our system. You cannot really exclude personal belief systems, because the legislation in question relates to issues concerning personal beliefs.

I think we've all played rather well together, actually. We've had a go at politics and religion. Shall we move onto sex now?

I'd say YES, but this giraffe should head to bed. Oh, wait.....

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by cepe

Many members of the Cof E never get confirmed, unlike the RCC church where everyone gets confirmed at about 9 or 10 years of age.

That's not quite accurate...here confirmation doesn't happen until a person is in their mid teens.


LaRae

[Trillian]

Originally Posted by Roslyn

No, I did not say my opinion is a fact, I said I have an opinion - regarding Kate's level of commitment to the CofE - based on the fact she was only confirmed shortly before her marriage.

I was baptised and confirmed in the 12 months before I was married....how is that a comment on level of commitment? My parents, being different faiths ( 1 Protestant, the other RC) left it up to us to make our own decisions as adults. I would posit that making that decision as an adult, rather than as a 13yo (the usual age when Catechism classes are offered) , makes it a more considered and mature commitment.

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by cepe

What he is saying is the Head of the Church of England asks permission of the Head of the Catholic Church for their child/grandchild not to brought up a Catholic which is against canon law.

It has happened for centuries that Catholic princesses married protestant kings or heirs of protestant kings and stayed Catholic while their children were brought up protestant (think Bavarian princesses married to Sweden or Prussia). While it is "normal" for Catholics on marrying protestants to bring up the children as Catholics, it is not a problem to do it differently nowadays.

But I understand the worries of the CoE, but have no doubt they'll find the Catholic pope to be willing to agree to the planned changes. It's not as if the problem never existed before and was never solved....

[Roslyn]

Originally Posted by Trillian

I was baptised and confirmed in the 12 months before I was married....how is that a comment on level of commitment? My parents, being different faiths ( 1 Protestant, the other RC) left it up to us to make our own decisions as adults. I would posit that making that decision as an adult, rather than as a 13yo (the usual age when Catechism classes are offered) , makes it a more considered and mature commitment.

Your circumstances are quite different from Kate's. You were not marrying the anticipated future Supreme Governor of the Church of England, and she had been Christened in the usual course as a baby. In her case I find the timing of her decision to proceed with Confirmation to be very suspicious, and a perusal of the comments above will reveal that I am not the only one to think that way.

I'm a little surprised you weren't baptised as a baby though, into one or other of your parents' churches, though perhaps they are only nominal members of their religion. Whatever the case may be, I commend your parents' decision to let you make up your own mind as an adult; I think that is as it should be.

[HRHHermione]

If there's one thing I'd love to see in a modern monarchy, it's the idea that one's personal faith is very personal, and should neither qualify nor disqualify anyone for any professional position.

I really do hope Charles becomes "Defender of Faiths" rather than "Defender of the Faith" and that it's formally acknowledged that one's private beliefs should be totally private. I personally couldn't care less about when Catherine was confirmed or about how often William and Catherine attend church. And I hope that soon, religious beliefs will not preclude two people who love each other from marrying, even of one of those people is heir to the throne.

I see the monarch as a representative of the people, and to my mind, this means that they should represent all of the people as much as possible. I know it's governed by hereditary privilege and I know there's no real answer to that- it will never be a democratic institution. However, within those confines, it should be as democratic as possible, and that means making sure that women can inherit and that men in the family can marry the person of their choice without it influencing succession rights.

[Trillian]

Originally Posted by Roslyn

Your circumstances are quite different from Kate's. You were not marrying the anticipated future Supreme Governor of the Church of England, and she had been Christened in the usual course as a baby. In her case I find the timing of her decision to proceed with Confirmation to be very suspicious, and a perusal of the comments above will reveal that I am not the only one to think that way.

I'm a little surprised you weren't baptised as a baby though, into one or other of your parents' churches, though perhaps they are only nominal members of their religion. Whatever the case may be, I commend your parents' decision to let you make up your own mind as an adult; I think that is as it should be.

Assuming the Royal Family usually takes Communion, Kate would have to be Confirmed before she could take Communion with them.

[Dman]

Peter Hunt‏@BBCPeterHunt
The bill which will ensure that if William and Kate's child is a girl she will be queen will be debated in the Commons on Tuesday 22nd Jan.

[wbenson]

BBC News - New royal succession law despite MP's Kaiser warning

If William and Kate's baby is a girl, she would be expected to become monarch ahead of any younger male siblings.
However, the MP for Louth and Horncastle Sir Peter Tapsell has warned of the dangers of breaking with centuries of tradition.
Speaking in the Commons, the Father of the House said: "But for our law of male primogeniture, the German Kaiser would have become King of England, which would have produced almost as interesting a coalition as the present one."

[Lumutqueen]

I seriously don't see the point in mentioning that Kaiser Wilhelm would have been King, if equal primogeniture had existed in Victoria's time. It didn't, and her eldest son Edward became King. Also there may have been some succesion issue as Victoria, The Princess Royal was married to the King of Prussia.

[wbenson]

And it's silly to think Victoria would have had the same life, husband, etc. had she been the heiress apparent rather than 5th in line.

[Iluvbertie]

Had Victoria been the heir there is no way she would have married the Crown Prince of Prussia to begin with so the argument is irrelevant.

[Mariel]

Duke-of-Earl, I like your comment 1006.
I have thought that William and Catherine must be somewhat religious because of the music they chose for their wedding. I realize someone else may have chosen some of the music, but they chose the motet sung during their silent prayer after they were pronounced man and wife. I am a person of faith, and I was so moved by this selection that I played it over and over, mentioned it on line, and actually my "mention" went viral for a time. Of course one could say that William and Catherine picked this religious motet, written by a music professor they met near their home, simply for its beauty rather than the sentiment of the words. The words, however, were a passionate plea for God's mercy--simply amazing and over the top, I thought, for the royals, who are presumed to be stiff-upper-lip folks.
I have no idea how they really feel about such things.

[Mariel]

Comment on wearing crosses in C of E. I am a member of an Episcopal parish in which ever member of our Bible study, including the rector and his associate, wears a cross. I had to get out my old crusader cross, which I had hesitated to wear because of its significance, in order to be "in style." My cross is the smallest one in the group. I am thinking of getting a less combat-significant cross from James Avery Silversmiths.

[Iluvbertie]

Charles chose the music for William and Kate's wedding because they admitted that he knew that stuff and they didn't.

[Baroness of Books]

Yes, I also heard PC played a major part in the selection of the wedding music.

[Noble Consort Ming]

Originally Posted by Roslyn

I'm a little surprised you weren't baptised as a baby though, into one or other of your parents' churches, though perhaps they are only nominal members of their religion. Whatever the case may be, I commend your parents' decision to let you make up your own mind as an adult; I think that is as it should be.

Some protestant denominations do not baptize babies. They only baptize people after a certain age when they understand what baptism is and can make the decision for themselves. And the orthodox churches give communion to babies after baptism.