The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #901  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:33 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,124
Elizabeth, like Victoria before her, was only ever an heiress presumptive or 'presumed heir'.

A son to George VI would have replaced, just as any child born to Queen Adelaide would have repleced Victoria.

Had The Queen Mum had a son after February 6th 1952 but before November 6th 1952 that son or son's line would be Elizabeth's heir not Charles. This was apparently - can't find the reference now but have read it somewhere - the decision in 1837 about Victoria - a child born to Adelaide within 9 months of Victoria's accession would be Victoria's heir. I have also read, however, that Victoria would have had to abdicate immediately - so it isn't written in stone.

Charles is the heir apparent and William is his heir apparent.

Of course, in the future, there will be fewer chances for an heiress apparent as the first born, regardless of gender will be the apparent heir.

The only way there would be a 'presumptive heir' in future will be in cases like Victoria's rather than Elizabeth's.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #902  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:34 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,262
^^^^^
Nothing ever stops a good conspiracy theorist.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #903  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:35 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vecchiolarry View Post
Hi,

Why even have a monarchy if you don't have a King and Queen at least?
Or a Queen, if no King, as is the case today??

Ands in the case of twins, is not Catherine present at the birth to say which came first? Is not William going to be present too?
They are whom I would believe before doctors/palace grey suits....
Their word should stop all conspiracy & theorists!!

Larry
It is the doctor or midwife who puts down the time of birth and that is the official time so it will be the doctor's word who will decide if they are so close together that it isn't clear and usually there are a couple of minutes at least - time enough for the first one to be clearly recorded before the second one arrives.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #904  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:45 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,262
Well no matter how close the timing one still has to come out first unless they are conjoined. Its not like the birth room will be empty. There will be witnesses.......but even that would not stop a good conspiracy theorist or tabloid writer.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #905  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:51 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Well no matter how close the timing one still has to come out first unless they are conjoined. Its not like the birth room will be empty. There will be witnesses.......but even that would not stop a good conspiracy theorist or tabloid writer.

Something about not letting the truth get in the way of a good story
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #906  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:59 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spring Hill, United States
Posts: 2,318
It is all nonsense and keeps people and the press going. No one, really, cares.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #907  
Old 01-04-2013, 08:03 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,020
yes they do - vicarious living; dreams of better things; sense of history; fear of politicians; desire for continuity; desire for equality; something to break the monotony; etc

oh yes - and something to complain about or deride
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #908  
Old 01-04-2013, 09:29 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Campbelltown, Australia
Posts: 97
Continuity of leadership without political fear or favour?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #909  
Old 01-05-2013, 12:10 PM
padams2359's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Orleans, United States
Posts: 380
Did SJP announce twins, and I missed it? Not sure who put 2 in there?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #910  
Old 01-05-2013, 12:13 PM
Artemisia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,427

No one has made any such announcement. The twins speculation started because the condition Kate is suffering from mainly occurs when a woman is pregnant with twins and, to a lesser degree, with a girl.
Reply With Quote
  #911  
Old 01-05-2013, 12:14 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 16,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vecchiolarry View Post
Hi,
Ands in the case of twins, is not Catherine present at the birth to say which came first? Is not William going to be present too?
They are whom I would believe before doctors/palace grey suits....
Their word should stop all conspiracy & theorists!!

Larry
Doctors will decide who comes out first or second, if it's caesarean. If it's not, then the babies decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by padams2359 View Post
Did SJP announce twins, and I missed it? Not sure who put 2 in there?
SJP did not announce twins, hypothetical conversation.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #912  
Old 01-05-2013, 12:30 PM
AdmirerUS's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 2,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vecchiolarry View Post
Hi,

Why even have a monarchy if you don't have a King and Queen at least?
Or a Queen, if no King, as is the case today??

Ands in the case of twins, is not Catherine present at the birth to say which came first? Is not William going to be present too?
They are whom I would believe before doctors/palace grey suits....
Their word should stop all conspiracy & theorists!!

Larry
Queen Elizabeth I is rolling over in the grave right now! And all her fans are saying "Wait one minute, now..."
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #913  
Old 01-06-2013, 06:44 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 1,181
Why didn't they talk to Charles before this mad scramble? | Mail Online
Quote:
The announcement of the Duchess of Cambridge’s pregnancy – and the imminent arrival of a child who will be third in line to the throne – has caused a flurry of activity in Whitehall.
As part of the Government’s commitment to equal opportunities, driven by the Lib Dems and especially by their leader Nick Clegg, it wishes to ensure that the first-born child of the Cambridges succeeds to the throne irrespective of its sex.
At present, custom and practice going back to the Norman Conquest and before dictates that a first-born girl can reign as queen only if she has no younger brother.

The Succession to the Crown Bill, drawn up by the Cabinet Office and published last month, seeks to change that.
The Government originally raised the issue in 2011, when David Cameron asked all 15 Commonwealth nations who have the Queen as Head of State to approve the change.
They have now done this. They also approved changes to the Royal Marriages Act of 1772 and to the Bill of Rights of 1689, to allow those in line to the throne to marry a Catholic without having to renounce their right to succeed – as, for example, Prince Michael of Kent had to when he married his Catholic wife in 1978.However,
I am told by friends of the Prince of Wales that he is alarmed, for several reasons, about the nature of this major constitutional change.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #914  
Old 01-06-2013, 06:47 PM
Artemisia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,427


A stupid article full of errors.

The Act of Settlement clearly states that the Monarch, as well as those who wish to retain their succession rights, must always belong to the Church of England: there are no plans to change that. That means the theoretical situation the DM article envisions can never take place. Now, I'm pretty sure Prince Charles is perfectly aware of the fact, which in turn means the whole article was basically made up. What a surprise.
Reply With Quote
  #915  
Old 01-06-2013, 06:56 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,020
majority of politicans are amateurs (or in the Uk, failed lawyers);the recent cull of civil servants (where the most experienced left with a sigh of relief and mega-pensions) has left negliable experience in Whitehall; and asking for advice (ie constituional experts) is seen as involving consultants - a dirty word in government circles.

The article may not be made up - it could be worse. Someone involved in this has explained it to the DM and its obvious that they dont understand.

EDIT: And I find it hard to believe that David Cameron and the Queen have not discussed this during their weekly meetings.
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #916  
Old 01-06-2013, 09:33 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 1,181
Succeeding to the Canadian throne
Quote:
Since the Glorious Revolution of 1688, the English Parliament — rather than the monarch — has controlled the line of succession to the throne through legislation, such as the Act of Settlement, 1701. There is therefore no question that the British Parliament must enact a law to amend the rules of succession. But what of Canada? Must we do the same? Indeed, we must, a reality that dispels any notion that the Crown is a mere symbol of Canada’s history as a British colony, and that highlights how deeply entrenched the Crown is in the Canadian constitution.
The Royal Line of Succession: Coordinating Amendments to the Act of Settlement in the 16 Commonwealth Realms | James W.J. Bowden's Blog
Quote:
I support the two proposed changes. I only wish that Prime Minister Cameron in particular were willing to acknowledge that the Act of Settlement contains far more than simply the codification of male primogeniture and the penalty applied to royal marriages to Catholics. In fact, the Act of Settlement and the Bill of Rights represent the triumph of parliamentary sovereignty by vesting power in the crown-in-parliament rather than simply in the Sovereign’s person.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #917  
Old 01-07-2013, 04:40 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: LONDON, United Kingdom
Posts: 652
Prince Charles: Shake-up to let a daughter succeed to the throne 'has not been thought through' | Mail Online

As far as I am concerned the Sons' should always be given precedence over older sisters. Don't care if it is old fashioned that is how it should be left.

Sweden can keep its Queen's. Kings and Queens in a pack of card - King wins every time. That is how it should be.

A woman sovereign will never have the status of a male sovereign. On paper maybe, but that's it. My views won't change on this. I think they should leave well alone. If there are no male children born then fair enough, but if a male child comes along later, he should inherit the throne above his older sister, no question about it!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #918  
Old 01-07-2013, 04:50 AM
HRHHermione's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, United States
Posts: 1,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by angieuk View Post
Prince Charles: Shake-up to let a daughter succeed to the throne 'has not been thought through' | Mail Online

As far as I am concerned the Sons' should always be given precedence over older sisters. Don't care if it is old fashioned that is how it should be left.

Sweden can keep its Queen's. Kings and Queens in a pack of card - King wins every time. That is how it should be.

A woman sovereign will never have the status of a male sovereign. On paper maybe, but that's it. My views won't change on this. I think they should leave well alone. If there are no male children born then fair enough, but if a male child comes along later, he should inherit the throne above his older sister, no question about it!
You're free to have your own opinion of course, but I find this view point incredibly narrow minded and very demeaning to the many, many women who have successfully occupied positions of power, including Queen Elizabeth II. I see absolutely no reason why gender discrimination should have any place in determining the sovereign and I'm thrilled that the rules are changing and this form of discrimination is being done away with.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #919  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:04 AM
hkittybaby's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: london, United Kingdom
Posts: 886
"New laws to ensure William and Kate’s first child accedes to the throne even if it is a girl will be rushed out within weeks and fast-tracked through Parliament in two days, the Standard reveals today."
Fast-track vote for Duchess of Cambridge's baby law - UK - News - London Evening Standard
__________________
“Yes, well, I really hope I can make a difference, even in the smallest way. I am looking forward to helping as much as I can.”
Catherine Middleton
Reply With Quote
  #920  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:01 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: alpine village, Germany
Posts: 1,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
This is in the wrong thread, but I'm interested as to why you think a woman sovereign will never have the status of a male one when the current Queen completely and utterly shatters that view point?

Oh and Sweden isn't the only one with it's Queens only Spain, the UK and Monaco left to change it's primogeniture laws in Europe.
And in both Spain and Monaco at the moment it seems that due to Semi-Salic law there will be a future female souverain.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Succession Issues ladybelline Imperial Family of Japan 918 11-02-2013 12:14 PM
The Act of Settlement 1701 and the Line of Succession Elise,LadyofLancaster British Royals 912 02-04-2013 07:05 PM
Rules of Succession CrownPrinceLorenzo Royalty Past, Present, and Future 95 10-25-2012 01:55 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth birthday bourbon-parma camilla charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria danish royals engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri habsburg hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume hohenzollern infanta elena king abdullah king abdullah ii king albert ii king carl xvi gustav king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander norway palace picture thread pom pregnancy prince albert prince albert ii prince constantijn prince felipe prince felix prince frederik prince henrik prince joachim princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess haya princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess marie princess mary princess maxima queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia state visit wedding willem-alexander william winter olympics 2014


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:23 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]