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  #661  
Old 11-02-2012, 01:26 AM
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No doubt Anne would make a fine Queen but I think Andrew would succeed.
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  #662  
Old 11-02-2012, 01:36 AM
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If Kate has a baby girl tomorrow she will be Queen: Nick Clegg promises Duchess of Cambridge's daughter could succeed to the throne:
Kate Middleton: Nick Clegg promises Duchess of Cambridge's daughter could succeed to the throne | Mail Online

Here's the article where MP Nick Clegg is confirming the change.

He is wrong.

The changes need to be legislated and so far they haven't been. They can't even agree on the wording to put before the various realms nearly a year on since agreeing to make the change - that alone should tell you just how difficult it will be to get 16 independent nations to pass identical legislation.

If William and Kate have a girl and then a boy and then The Queen, Charles and William all die before the legislation is passed in all the realms the boy will succeed.

The intention is to get the legislation through so that a daughter in the above scenario would succeed but it isn't as simple as Clegg thinks.
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  #663  
Old 11-02-2012, 02:20 AM
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That's why I say the realms should wake up, pass the legislation, make it a new law and call it a night.
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  #664  
Old 11-02-2012, 02:24 AM
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Unfortunately, it's probably not that simple.

The text of the legislation probably isn't a big deal. 15 of these countries have never passed a law changing the line of succession, though, so the actual procedure has to be worked out, and it won't be the same process everywhere. For example, the Parliament of New Zealand is supreme with the ability to legislate on anything, but in Canada and Australia the federal parliaments have limited powers. In some countries, it won't require any action at all because their constitutions allow the British Parliament to make the necessary changes for them, but in others it will require more study and perhaps even the involvement of the courts to determine what action is required.
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  #665  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:27 AM
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Each country should surely have some precedent or procedure for changing some kind of law or another whether it be criminal law, civil law, the law of property or indeed constitutinal law. I agree that mechanism will likely not be same for everyone. However, to start off, I would have the UK government draw up some basic draft legislation, which broadly matches most country's requirements. Each country can then amend the wording to suit their own requirements, enact it in the way that makes it law in that country and done deal!
Obviously I'm completely not clued up about this sort fo thingm but I see it that the Act of Settlement is a legal document (presumable it is) and requires a small and rather insignificant amendment to delete or re-word the clause or provision that states the monarch must be male or requires a male heir (or whatever). I'd just send everyone certified copies of the Act of Settlement with the wording deleted for everyone to initial, stamp or do whatever and have it returned duly amended, have the Queen sign the counterpart, return copies of the completed amendment and forget all about it for a hundreds years while the next couple of generations have boys only!
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  #666  
Old 11-02-2012, 04:52 AM
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I believe that one complicating factor is that in some countries, the status of the Act of Settlement isn't really known with any certainty. The last time the monarchy was altered was 1936 (when the British Parliament passed His Majesty's Declaration of Abdication Act with the consent of the other realms), but that was before significant changes occurred in the constitutional structure of many of the Commonwealth realms. In 1936, Canada among other countries could simply approve of a change in the law and have it be enacted by the British Parliament. That's now impossible. The question is, what kind of law is the Act of Settlement in these countries now? Is it regular old statute law, which would be relatively easy to change, or constitutional law, which in some countries could make any amendments quite difficult (politically if not logistically)? That's not the kind of question that can be answered with a quick stamp.
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  #667  
Old 11-02-2012, 05:49 PM
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The fact that a committee has been working on this for nearly a year now and still hasn't worked out the bugs tells you that it is more complicated than a simple change of wording of a British law.

If it is deemed a constitutional matter then to change it in Australia will require a full referendum not just legislation for instance. It might even require that all the state and terrirtory governments have to pass it separately as well as the Federal government. This is the sort of issue that has to be worked out.

The wording will also need to be the same in each realm.

It will happen but it is taking time to make it meet the requirements of each of the different realms and satisfy their laws and constitutions.
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  #668  
Old 11-04-2012, 01:19 AM
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And if the process drags on long enough and the Scottish referndum results in independence for Scotland, then they too will need to be part of the decision (unless they opt for republicanism instead).
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  #669  
Old 12-03-2012, 04:11 PM
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There has been a committee working in NZ since October last year to get the legislation prepared so that it will pass all 16 realms with the same wording. They did say at the time that it could take about 4 years to get it all worked out.

Of course if the baby is a boy then the pressure is off for another quarter of a century.
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  #670  
Old 12-03-2012, 07:45 PM
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I figured it would go quickly once the pregnancy was announced. It's not like they were going to wait much past 30 to start.
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  #671  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:34 PM
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Nick Clegg is correct that the child will be third in line to the throne regardless of gender - at the moment and under the current legislation but...if it is twins - girl first and then boy then the boy will be third and the girl fourth as the legislation currently stands and then that would change when the legislation is past.
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  #672  
Old 12-03-2012, 09:32 PM
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The thing that the politicians will be praying for is a boy first or two girls and then stop - solves the problem for another generation.
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  #673  
Old 12-03-2012, 10:11 PM
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Just watched a news clip on CBC and PM Stephen Harper says he will introduced legislation in parliament to change succession laws if required and it is expected to pass easily experts say.
No word on what if any participation the provinces will have in the legislation.
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  #674  
Old 12-04-2012, 03:54 AM
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For me, the problem isn't that the monarch and his/her spouse have to be Anglicans (although even that might sound old-fashioned these days), but that Catholics are the only ones, who are discriminated by that law. Of course, I know that it has historical reasons, but it just seems weird that three hundred years later, a British prince or princess can marry a Jew, a Muslim, a Hindu etc and still keep their place in the succession, but lose it if they marry a Catholic. I personally find that a bigger problem than the male primogeniture.
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  #675  
Old 12-04-2012, 04:00 AM
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You make a good point. Hence my various posts on the fact that sorting out primogeniture might be a "done deal" (but Nick Clegg doesn't appear to realise that 16 other realms need to approve it as well) but the other issues are not so easily solved.
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  #676  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:50 AM
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Future Monarchs.

I am new here and would like to congratulate the Royal Family on the news they announced yesterday but which has been suspected with a few weeks now.

Forgive my ignorance in asking this question.

I know that Charles is next in line to the throne, and after that William, then Harry but this will change when the new baby is born.

But what happens if Charles was to die before the queen. How would that change things. Would William be next in line to the thrown, or would it be Andrew as the Queens oldest surviving son at the time of her death or abdication.
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  #677  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:00 AM
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Should Charles die before the Queen, William would be next in line for the throne after the Queen as Charles' heir. Once the Cambridge baby is born, he/she would then be next in line. Until the baby is born, it would be Harry.
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  #678  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:06 AM
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Succession goes
Charles
William
Henry
Andrew

If Charles dies, William becomes King just like if Charles survived The Queen.
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  #679  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Should Charles die before the Queen, William would be next in line for the throne after the Queen as Charles' heir. Once the Cambridge baby is born, he/she would then be next in line. Until the baby is born, it would be Harry.

Thanks for your answer. I dont know why I was left to believe that If Charles was to die that Andrew would become next in line to the queen as he would be her oldest son at the time of her death. I was also lead to believe that William would only become King after Charles filled the roll.
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  #680  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:58 PM
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Hello
I have another question. Imagine that twins, are born,
- who is the first to the rights?
- if twins boy and girl are born, how is the order in succession?
- if babies are born by ceaserian, how is the order in succession?
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