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  #221  
Old 04-20-2011, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Ah, karma!

I doubt it ever entered the minds of the explorers and colonisers that one day those they attached to the Empire would have such power over Britain.

Of course I was only stating the opinion of a couple of people and not anything official.

It could also be that Tuvalu decides to become a republic rather than change their preferred practice but from what this couple said the people like having the Queen but simply think that men are better at that sort of thing and would prefer a male at all times over a female.
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  #222  
Old 04-23-2011, 02:12 AM
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I don't know how official this is but

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/...66_634x477.jpg

The majority of British would approve the change.

One question: if one Commonwealth country doesn't agree with the changed, could they use the "the-side-with-more-votes-wins", or no?
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  #223  
Old 04-23-2011, 04:30 AM
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No. All of the realms are independent and equal. If one says 'no' then 'no' it is. Each of the realms has to pass its own legislation to make it happen in their nation.
It could result in the one saying 'no' ending up with a different monarch e.g. everyone else could end up with Queen Diana while Tuvalu keeps male primogeniture and ends up with the new King Micheal (I have taken the liberty of naming their children after William's mum and Kate's dad - to be fair to Kate).

NB This matter has nothing to do with The Commonwealth actually as most of the Commonwealth countries are republics or have their own monarchs. There are some Commonwealth countries that have the same Head of State - in the person of the monarch of the UK of GB and NI but since 1932 all of these realms have equal rights to say 'yes' or 'no' to any idea regarding that monarch e.g. if any of them hadn't agreed to Edward VIII's abdication in 1936 he could have remained as King of those realms and not as King of Britain.
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  #224  
Old 04-23-2011, 06:58 AM
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While it is technically possible for the idea of equal primogeniture to be rejected by a realm, I don't think it is in any way probable. Two things are however nearly certain:
(1) the debate about becoming a republic will be re-opened using the laws of succession as a starting point;
(2) the debate about the religious requirement will be re-opened as well, along with minor debates about adopted children and children legitimated by marriage;
(3) their will be a raft of suits petitioning the queen to change the rules governing hereditary peerages.

Given all three of these debates, I still think they would be better off waiting to see if the first born to William and Catherine is a girl. With a real live baby girl, the objections should be minimal.
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  #225  
Old 04-23-2011, 07:10 AM
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1. Debate about becoming a republic in most realms will happen regardless - and in Australia for instance can't be determined by the parliament anyway - it will take a referendum of the Australian people and a majority of that population and a majority of the states would have to vote in favour - NB we have only passed about 8 in the 110 year history of the nation.

2. I haven't heard of any debate about adopted children having rights in Britain nor any debate about children born out of wedlock where the couple then marry - probably because people are fully aware of the fact that if the girl was pregnant they would have a quick wedding to cover that eventuality.

3. They can petition the Queen all they like - but to change the LPs for any title they would be petitioning the wrong entity. They need to ask Parliament to do so and Parliament could deal with that issue very simply by having the legislation state that all inherited titles/positions have to be gender neutral.

As for one realm refusing to agree - it is possible. We were given that right in 1932 and the realms are fully aware that it will take legislation in each realm separately and independently of Britain. The legislation therefore has to met the requirements of each of the different realms and even consider the wording of the constitutions of each of the realms as to whether it can be done simply by Parliament or whether a referendum would be required.
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  #226  
Old 04-24-2011, 08:28 AM
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Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: ROYAL WEDDING: LET THEIR DAUGHTER BE QUEEN
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  #227  
Old 04-27-2011, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenora View Post
I know about Scandinavian monarchies,but I've never heard about Spain adopting the equal primogeniture
They have with the king's grandchildren, I believe. So if Letizia and Felipe were to have a son, he would be fourth in line after his father and two sisters. The male primogeniture only still applies to the king's children.
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  #228  
Old 04-27-2011, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie2006

They have with the king's grandchildren, I believe. So if Letizia and Felipe were to have a son, he would be fourth in line after his father and two sisters. The male primogeniture only still applies to the king's children.
No, Spain hasn't changed to equal primogeniture. There was a lot of discussion when Leonor was born but the government seems to want to avoid constitutional complications. I think they will change it if Felipe and Letizia have a son as they took the unusual step of revealing their second daughter's gender before her birth in case it had 'constitutional relevance' or something like that.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_...Spanish_throne

I think, like in the UK, the politicians are hoping the problem never arises, although I believe F and L did want more than 2 children, at least before they were married.
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  #229  
Old 06-15-2011, 08:44 AM
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Male primogeniture should be outlawed everywhere...
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  #230  
Old 06-15-2011, 09:04 AM
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^i agree but only for european royal houses!!! Great Britain, Spain and Monaco could get rid of Male primogeniture, and Luxembourg and Liechenstein could get rid of the Salic law.

however, countries like Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Brunei and many more its better for them to have the Salic Law, to avoid wars and problems on sucession. on countries where females dont have that privilagies how they can have a Queen ruler? dont get me wrong, i would love to see a women on their thrones, but it would make many issues and dangerous problems.

still, Japan needs to get rid of the Salic Law, and allow Aiko to be Empress. i think this one is my top 1 for changing the constitution. its quite unfair!!
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  #231  
Old 06-15-2011, 09:18 PM
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You actually raise a very good point as to why the Europeans probably shouldn't change - the increasing number of people from the Middle East moving to Western Europe and demanding to keep their own cultures and laws - especially with regard to women - means that having a woman as the monarch in some of these countries could be a problem in the future. Many of the new migrants to Europe are from the nations you identify as not needing to change to equal primogeniture because of their views on women but as this group will probably form a sizeable minority, if not a small majority in say Britain by the time William's eldest child is succeeding to the throne then taking that issue into account should also be influencing the decision makers.
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  #232  
Old 06-15-2011, 10:51 PM
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I don't get this- the 3 best sovereigns (or at least among the best) England has ever had were women- Elizabeth I, Victoria and Elizabeth II so why would anyone afraid of another woman sovereign? Or assume she wouldnt be as ''good'' as a boy? Also the English Queen currently is a women and seems to me no other countries (regardless of their view on women) appear to have an issue respecting her and her position....just my opinions on this subject......
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  #233  
Old 06-15-2011, 11:41 PM
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Immigrants need to respect their chosen adopted country's culture, including learning the local language. Who cares about what these immigrants want - I could care less. Equal primogeniture should be implemented in the European countries whose native population votes in favor of it. If immigrants are anti-equal primogeniture, they can chose to live elsewhere. What about that statement is so hard for immigrants to understand? Iluvbertie, I cannot believe you had the audacity to post your entry above! I do not understand where you are coming from at all.
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  #234  
Old 06-15-2011, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathia_sophia
^i agree but only for european royal houses!!! Great Britain, Spain and Monaco could get rid of Male primogeniture, and Luxembourg and Liechenstein could get rid of the Salic law.

however, countries like Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Brunei and many more its better for them to have the Salic Law, to avoid wars and problems on sucession. on countries where females dont have that privilagies how they can have a Queen ruler? dont get me wrong, i would love to see a women on their thrones, but it would make many issues and dangerous problems.

still, Japan needs to get rid of the Salic Law, and allow Aiko to be Empress. i think this one is my top 1 for changing the constitution. its quite unfair!!

I know you meant well by writing you post, but you cannot have it every which way! Maybe you could work as a consultant to these respective governments to make sure your specifications are met! ;-D
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  #235  
Old 06-16-2011, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by NotHRH View Post
Immigrants need to respect their chosen adopted country's culture, including learning the local language. Who cares about what these immigrants want - I could care less. Equal primogeniture should be implemented in the European countries whose native population votes in favor of it. If immigrants are anti-equal primogeniture, they can chose to live elsewhere. What about that statement is so hard for immigrants to understand? Iluvbertie, I cannot believe you had the audacity to post your entry above! I do not understand where you are coming from at all.

I was coming from the point of view that in 50 or 100 years the majority in many countries will be very different to what it is now and thus what is the culture and language of those countries could be very different.

In Australia we have a policy of multiculturalism so all cultures are welcome and able to follow their own beliefs and practices. Many don't learn English and the government etc acknowledge that in many ways e.g. multilingual notices from the government. Where I lived a couple of years ago - the most multicultural local council area in Australia it was perfectly possible to walk the streets without seeing a sign in English. The last time I was in Britain there were also areas there that were the same - where English was the foreign language.

So as these groups become more sizeable then their views will have to be taken into account - just as the Anglo-Saxons had to accept the Norman ideas when they were conquered or the Native Americans and Indigenous Australians have had to come to terms with the new majority in their countries so the Europeans might have to deal with the increasing numbers from the Middle East and Asia - particularly of the Islamic faith - the fastest growing religion in the world.

My point therefore is that if it is clear that in a generation or two generations the majority, or at least a very large minority, are going to have a problem with gender blind succession and thus lead to a coming back to the way it is now why change it?
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  #236  
Old 06-16-2011, 01:12 AM
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That would be a shame. I respect all different cultures (I live in one of the most mixed countries there is) but I go w/ the saying "If you come to my house, you play by my rules".
The thing is, of course in regards to Britain, as much as we can predict a change in it's current "face", I don't see it changing this drastically in the next 5 years (which is when I predict William and Catherine would have their first child) so in the case of a girl being the first born that would naturally push the matter forward.
I don't thing the tricky part will be inside the UK, but more so, as explained before by other members, with Commonwealth nations. How to deal with that will prove to be the real challenge.
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  #237  
Old 06-16-2011, 08:41 AM
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I don't know; I can see the appeal of equal primogeniture because offhand it sounds more fair, but I fear the end result would be massive lawsuits!
After all, why should the eldest child inherit at all? Why not the smartest, or the favorite? Why not draw lots and the winner takes all?
You see my drift?
I actually think the change would be more trouble than it's worth.

I was wondering whether, in countries with equal primogeniture like Sweden, do all titles now devolve onto the eldest child? Or is that limited to the Monarchy?
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  #238  
Old 06-27-2011, 01:51 PM
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I hope they do it.Then William and Kate's daughter will be a future Victoria II or Elizabeth III!
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  #239  
Old 06-27-2011, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveCP
I hope they do it.Then William and Kate's daughter will be a future Victoria II or Elizabeth III!
Lol. I read your first sentence the wrong way before realizing that you meant changing the law! Ok, I'll behave.
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  #240  
Old 06-28-2011, 05:57 AM
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@ Esmeralda,it took me a couple of seconds to get what you were talking about!I guess I should of used other wording!
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