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  #61  
Old 11-13-2013, 06:22 PM
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It seems to me that the Diana Years are already fading in people's minds. Her contemporaries (myself included) are now in or approaching their 50s. We and our children--those born before or about 1990--will be the last generations who'll remember her as a flesh-and-blood human being and not as someone from history. For those born afterward, Catherine will be the only woman called The Princess of Wales in living memory. The reporters and writers are aging as well. As a new generation takes over, I don't think there'll be these constant references to Diana with how Catherine looks/acts/espouses causes. As for the Welsh people's opinion of an Englishman bearing the title "Prince of Wales", has this ever been popular?
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  #62  
Old 11-13-2013, 06:25 PM
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That is very true! Go up to any 13. 14. 15. 16. 17 or even 18 and 19 year old and ask them about Diana and most of them will have never heard of her or knew who she was and a lot of them probably wouldn't really care.
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  #63  
Old 11-13-2013, 06:27 PM
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Is there opposition from the people of Wales to the heir to the throne being titled The Prince of Wales? If the the majority of the Welsh object to the use of the title, he could use Duke of Cornwall.
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  #64  
Old 11-13-2013, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BritishRoyalist View Post
That is very true! Go up to any 13. 14. 15. 16. 17 or even 18 and 19 year old and ask them about Diana and most of them will have never heard of her or knew who she was and a lot of them probably wouldn't really care.
I disagree, anyone younger than 13 this year perhaps might not recognise the name but anyone older probably would. I'm 20 and I know who she is, without being a monarchist. I remember telling my mum when I was 4 that the television wasn't working because there were no kids shows on as all everyone was showing was news about Diana. Social media, the newspapers and TV play a big part and Diana in some way or form is still around.

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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
Is there opposition from the people of Wales to the heir to the throne being titled The Prince of Wales? If the the majority of the Welsh object to the use of the title, he could use Duke of Cornwall.
Nothing that is openly voiced, however I imagine it's the kind of thing that would only appear when the title is questioned.

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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I disagree. Diana isn't the most famous holder - she's just the one we think of now because she's the most recent holder
I disagree, I guess it comes down to your definition of famous. Diana is IMO the most famous woman to have held the title Princess of Wales. You say Caroline, Alexandra or Mary on the street to anyone and they would go who, even if you put a Queen in front of it? Say Diana, and you got a different story. Whilst times change and people forget, at the moment and, personally I can't see Catherine using the title to her advantage, Diana is going to remain that way.
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  #65  
Old 11-13-2013, 07:39 PM
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I'm sure young people, especially in Britain, have heard of Diana and know who she is, but they haven't been subjected to daily news about Diana throughout their lives. When I lived in Europe, Sky News had a Diana story every day and the tabloids were full of her. It was less intense in the U.S., but People magazine readers certainly knew intimate details of her life. I don't know how frequent the stories in Europe are now, but it has to be less frequent.

I think it is safe to say that the younger generation probably doesn't have the same emotional investment in Diana as my generation did; and the emotion investment of the older generation has faded as time has gone by and will continue to decline. When the time comes, Charles and William will take the public mood into consideration and make their decision. You really can't ask for more than that.
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  #66  
Old 11-13-2013, 07:42 PM
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But Alexandra and Mary were PoW (and Queen) well over 100 years ago ... Caroline was PoW well over 200 years ago. From what I understand, Alexandra in particular, was very much the "Diana of her day", beautiful and popular. Diana will probably be remembered in 100-200 years as these three ladies are remembered, and probably as part of the triangle that was her marriage to Charles. We remember her as an individual now because she's still very much of a generation that's alive and will be so for several more decades.
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  #67  
Old 11-14-2013, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Charles should consult Wales before offering POW to William, but I see no reason as to why them or William would refuse it.
How might you suggest that Charles "should consult Wales"? A referendum? An opinion poll? Advice of the Welsh Secretary? A vote in the Welsh Assembly?

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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
To create him PoW without considering the feelings towards the monarchy within Wales would be disrespectful to the Welsh. If support for the monarchy or the title isn't high in Wales then the title shouldn't be used.
Are you talking about:

a) the general feeling of the Welsh people towards the monarchy?;
b) the specific view of the Welsh people as to whether the heir to the throne of the UK should be referred to as the Prince of Wales?; or
c) how the Welsh might feel about being part of the United Kingdom per se?

The Welsh nationalist movement is really not very active, so I really do not think this is an issue in the real world. The only place I come across it is on TRF.
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That said, for Diana's legacy to be considered in all of this is absurd. There is no avoiding the comparison for Catherine - title or no title - and Diana didn't create the title. She was not the first Princess of Wales, she shouldn't be the last (at least, the last to hold and use the title).
I completely agree with you, this has nothing to do with Diana.
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  #68  
Old 11-14-2013, 03:47 PM
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How might you suggest that Charles "should consult Wales"? A referendum? An opinion poll? Advice of the Welsh Secretary? A vote in the Welsh Assembly?
How about going with all four.
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  #69  
Old 11-14-2013, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Charles should consult Wales before offering POW to William...
How might you suggest that Charles "should consult Wales"? A referendum? An opinion poll? Advice of the Welsh Secretary? A vote in the Welsh Assembly?

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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
No Diana does not own the title, but she has been the most famous holder of said title. You hear the words and you think of Diana, you don't think of Mary or Alexandra or Caroline. You think of Diana. Doesn't matter where you go, who you ask, what year you ask, the answer will be the same.
Thats just the matter of time..that time.. When you ask anyone about PssOW 40 years from now they will definitely say Kate..Then it will be Mrs George and so on.. 20-30 years is extremely short period in the BRF timeline.
In the first 20-30 years of 20th century Edward VII and Alexandra were instantly identified with The Wales titles..Then for next 2-3 decades it was Edward VIII..even after his abdication he had been identified with that title for long..

The last 20-30 years the title is definitely Diana's..But you ask someone after a 100 years..Diana will be as ancient/irrelevant as Alexandra/mary/Caroline is for us now..

IT IS ALWAYS THE INSTITUTION...NEVER EVER THE INDIVIDUAL..
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  #70  
Old 11-14-2013, 04:17 PM
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Times have changed since Charles was created Prince of Wales in 1958 and invested in 1969.

There is a vocal Welsh republican movement - might be small but it is there. They have their own assembly now that they didn't have in 1958 or 1969 - because of demands for a greater say in their own nation.

I do think Charles will consult the Assembly as the representatives of the Welsh people and make a determination after that consultation.
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  #71  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:03 PM
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Okay, so say the Welsh decide that they would prefer the title of Prince/Princess of Wales not continue and the BRF accepts this. What will the heir's title be? Crown Prince/Princess? Duke/Duchess of Cornwall?
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  #72  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by COESpiral View Post
Okay, so say the Welsh decide that they would prefer the title of Prince/Princess of Wales not continue and the BRF accepts this. What will the heir's title be? Crown Prince/Princess? Duke/Duchess of Cornwall?
It's not like the heir is lacking in titles now. As heir, Charles is:

1. Prince of Wales
2. Duke of Cornwall
3. Duke of Rothesay
4. Earl of Chester
5. Earl of Carrick
6. Baron of Renfrew
7. Lord of the Isles
8. Great Stewart of Scotland

If he wasn't PoW then he would normally be Duke of Cornwall (hence why Camilla uses that title), but he would continue to use Duke of Rothesay in Scotland, as happens now.
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  #73  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by COESpiral View Post
Okay, so say the Welsh decide that they would prefer the title of Prince/Princess of Wales not continue and the BRF accepts this. What will the heir's title be? Crown Prince/Princess? Duke/Duchess of Cornwall?
Duke of Cornwall, I suppose, as the eldest son and heir of the British Sovereign automatically receive this titles. I don't like the idea of Crown Prince of the United Kingdom, I don't know why.

But I believe The Duke of Cambridge will be created Prince of Wales in due time.
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  #74  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:13 PM
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8. Great Stewart of Scotland
Isn't His Royal Highness also The Prince of Scotland?

Prince of Scotland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #75  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by COESpiral View Post
Okay, so say the Welsh decide that they would prefer the title of Prince/Princess of Wales not continue and the BRF accepts this. What will the heir's title be? Crown Prince/Princess? Duke/Duchess of Cornwall?

It would be such a horrible slap in the face of not only the BRF, but for the very idea of United Kingdom... And I wonder The King or The PM will risk it..
Basically I dont think there is nothing to involve the Welsh people/representatives in this..
It is just a tradition and only a tradition in the BRF.. The said Prince will have absolutely no role in running Wales, unless he does something of his own out of charity..
So whats the relavance in consulting them..And why stop with Wales.. Will they also consult the Scottish when all the subsidiary titles like Earl of Chester/Merioneth/Inverness etc etc are given as part of making someone Duke..or making Edward the next Duke of Edinburgh..
The Prince of Wales is also the same..Simply a ceremonial thing..They wont even have to go to that castle and do all the show..
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  #76  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:17 PM
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Charles should not bow to pressure because of a few hardcore Nationalists/Republicans.
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  #77  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by royalistbert View Post
Charles should not bow to pressure because of a few hardcore Nationalists/Republicans.
I agree if it's a few Nationalists/Republicans. However, if the Welsh are more strongly Republican at the time they should consider that.

Likewise, the feelings of the Scots should be considered in the event of making Scottish Royal titles as well. In ignoring the people that live in those countries and not considering their feelings when creating Scottish or Welsh (or Northern Irish) titles the BRF is simply acting the role of the conqueror and oppressor.

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Isn't His Royal Highness also The Prince of Scotland? Prince of Scotland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Um... Yes.

If I'm reading the wiki page right, it's Prince and Great Steward of Scotland. I was reading Charles' title off of his page on thepeerage.com which I'd happened to have open at the moment and doesn't include the "Prince and" part of the title.
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  #78  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by royalistbert View Post
Charles should not bow to pressure because of a few hardcore Nationalists/Republicans.
I agree. Those people are disgusting.

From Wikipedia:

In recent opinion polls the majority of Welsh people have remained in favour of the monarchy with 70% plus support the usual figure; a poll in North Wales in 2003 by the Daily Post found 80% of respondents wanted Prince William to become the next Prince of Wales. Welsh speakers are no less likely to be monarchist, with a BBC Wales poll in 1999 finding that 73% of Welsh speakers want the position of Prince of Wales to continue. A BBC poll to mark the 40th anniversary of the investiture showed that 58% of the Welsh population were in favour of a similar public ceremony for Prince William when Charles becomes king.

Investiture of the Prince of Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #79  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:32 PM
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The BRF should NEVER ever have to ask permission to create titles for parts of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
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  #80  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by royalistbert View Post
They BRF should NEVER ever have to ask permission to create titles for parts of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
First of all, I didn't say they should ask permission. I said they should consider the feelings of the people living within those countries - Scotland, Wales, England, and Northern Ireland are all separate countries within the larger country (and realm) of the UK.

If there is a clearly strong republican movement in Scotland and the BRF continues to create royal titles in Scotland despite that it is acting the role of the conqueror. Likewise with Wales or Northern Ireland - I'm not saying that there is a strong republican movement in any of these places (or that there isn't), just that if there is one then the monarch should take that into consideration when creating titles. If the people of a country oppose the creation of titles within that country then it is inappropriate for the monarch to disregard it and continue doing so. The monarch, and the BRF, serve at the will of the people and needs to consider the desires of the people, as well as the various traditions in place, when creating titles.
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