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  #41  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:46 PM
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I have no doubt that William is preparing himself for his future role as Prince of Wales and most likely will have no problem with his wife taking on the title and role.
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  #42  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
...many people still associate that title to Diana.
TBH, I can't think of any reason that Diana should factor into something that has been a part of the British monarchy for ages. I can think of reasons William would be created Prince of Wales and reasons perhaps not.

For: It gives continuity to the 40 some years of work Charles has put his blood, sweat and tears into. In my imagination, I half expect The Prince's Trust and Charles' patronages and causes to merge with The Royal Foundation under one big, strong umbrella.

Against: Charles may decide his reign most likely would not be long enough to create William Prince of Wales and decide to hold it in trust for Prince George in the near future.

Personally, at this time, I do think Charles will invest his oldest son as The Prince of Wales and be a very proud father doing so.
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  #43  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:58 PM
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We have seen this before after the long reign of Queen Victoria, Edward VII was a long serving Prince of Wales but he still named his son PoW. He had a short range of 10 yrs and was replace by George V who reign for 25 yrs.

The investiture of the Prince of Wales is a modern invention starting with Edward VIII and Charles's was a made for tv ceremony design by Lord Snowdon.
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  #44  
Old 11-13-2013, 01:41 PM
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I, too, think that Charles would be very proud to invest William as Prince of Wales. The decision will be William's. I am in no way privy to William's thinking but, although I don't think Diana should factor into it, I can imagine that William would be a little reticent to have Catherine take a title so closely associated with Diana.

Regarding your point about the Prince's Trust and Charles' patronages merging with the Royal Foundation, to me that is a reason why William may choose not to take the title of Prince of Wales. William has his own interests and causes and may want to establish his own "brand" separate from his father's. I assume that William will continue many of his father's charities, but will he continue the Duchy of Cornwall Originals? I assume he will but he may want to put his energies into other causes.
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  #45  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:01 PM
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There is a discussion under the "Order of Precedence" thread that probably belongs here (I do try, moderators, honest) regarding whether William will be invested as Prince of Wales when Charles ascends the throne.

The "Princess of Wales" title existed for many generations before Diana, but I think the royal family--and Charles and William in particular--are very aware that the title is closely identified with Diana.

I can imagine William being concerned that Catherine would be mercilessly compared to Diana if (when) she takes that title. There are so many Diana comparisons and references now. Remember the reaction when Catherine choose to wear a blue dress on the day her engagement was announced, or the polka dot dress when she checked out of the hospital?

I believe that it is a very small number of people who make these comparisons. But they are not just on this forum, many of them are in the media and it is hard for the royal family to ignore them.

If William is reluctant to become Prince of Wales--and I don't know that he is--it may be a matter of timing. William may be less likely to become Prince of Wales immediately if Charles ascends the throne within 5 years, but he and Catherine may feel ready if it is more than 5 years from now.

Another possibility is that they may wait a few years after Charles ascends. That would give them an opportunity to continue to establish their own identities as working royals.
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  #46  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:13 PM
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If William isn't created Prince of Wales I doubt it will have anything to do with whether or not he wants to be PoW or Diana's legacy.

To create him PoW without considering the feelings towards the monarchy within Wales would be disrespectful to the Welsh. If support for the monarchy or the title isn't high in Wales then the title shouldn't be used.

That said, for Diana's legacy to be considered in all of this is absurd. There is no avoiding the comparison for Catherine - title or no title - and Diana didn't create the title. She was not the first Princess of Wales, she shouldn't be the last (at least, the last to hold and use the title).

What's more is given William's personal fondness for Wales I really can't see why he wouldn't want to be PoW.
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  #47  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
To create him PoW without considering the feelings towards the monarchy within Wales would be disrespectful to the Welsh. If support for the monarchy or the title isn't high in Wales then the title shouldn't be used.
Very very very well said! If anything William appears to be a considerate person and he doesn't want to upset a quarter (or third) of his country.

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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
I think starting from The Queen turning 90, Charles will start taking over Centanoph, Trooping The Colour, Opening The parliament, and finally Christmas Speech (in that order only..?) one each year..
Or maybe even earlier..
Why 90? If HM is capable of walking, talking and sitting down I see no reason why she can't do any of those things until she passes away.
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  #48  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:21 PM
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Ish, you are correct that the popularity of the monarchy is Wales should be the major consideration. But to clarify, I don't think Diana's legacy should be a consideration, but I think it will be. There is a rabid group of Diana fans that can't be ignored. I tend to think there are more in the media than in the general populace. The disconnect is evident in the media hype of the film Diana versus the actual popular interest.

I'm just speculating. I am probably wrong.
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  #49  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
There is a rabid group of Diana fans that can't be ignored. I tend to think there are more in the media than in the general populace. The disconnect is evident in the media hype of the film Diana versus the actual popular interest.
Major problem Camilla, Charles, William and Catherine has if they do the whole "we won't do this because it's associated with Diana", when does that excuse stop? It was appropriate for Camilla, but for Catherine it's illogical. If Catherine passes up on the title, does her daughter-in-law pass up on it too because Diana would be her grandmother in law?

The Daily Mail regularly had articles on the fashion aspect and the controversiality of the film, but you get that with every film. The new Emma Thompson or the new George Clooney has that. I'm not sure if it's different in the UK, but anyone who saw the premise of Diana would know it would be a flop.

Charles should consult Wales before offering POW to William, but I see no reason as to why them or William would refuse it.
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  #50  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:37 PM
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Diana does not own the Princess of Wales title. One single woman does not own a title. It's bad enough that Camila has use lessers titles because it might offend a certain section of the public. To suggest that William should not be created Prince of Wales because there may be comparisons between his mother and his wife is quite pathetic. Isn't there already comparisons anyway?
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  #51  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Ish, you are correct that the popularity of the monarchy is Wales should be the major consideration. But to clarify, I don't think Diana's legacy should be a consideration, but I think it will be. There is a rabid group of Diana fans that can't be ignored. I tend to think there are more in the media than in the general populace. The disconnect is evident in the media hype of the film Diana versus the actual popular interest.

I'm just speculating. I am probably wrong.
I more meant in regards to the discussion on the other thread than your comment here.

You do bring up a really good point though. I don't think Diana's legacy will influence wether William wants to be PoW or whether Charles wants William to be PoW.

I can see Diana's legacy influencing the public commentary when William is in the position to become PoW though. It may all just depend on when the issue comes up though. If the Queen lives for another 20 years then the Diana speculation may have died down more. I would hope that 35 years past Diana's death things will have calmed down enough for people to move on a bit.
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  #52  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:41 PM
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I hope that Charles does invest William as Prince of Wales, if he, as Diana's son, doesn't take the title I think it will make it very hard for any future royals to use as it would always be implied that Diana's son didn't want it to be.
The biggest argument most people make it that William would feel it would invite comparisons between Diana and Kate (as Princess of Wales) but to be honest the media have already compared them in every which way so I don't think it could get any worse especially in aother 5 or 10 years.
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  #53  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by royalistbert View Post
Diana does not own the Princess of Wales title. One single woman does not own a title. It's bad enough that Camila has use lessers titles because it might offend a certain section of the public. To suggest that William should not be created Prince of Wales because there may be comparisons between his mother and his wife is quite pathetic. Isn't there already comparisons anyway?
I agree.
I also don't see any Diana fans having a problem with Catherine being PoW. They had a problem with Camilla whom they considered the "source of all of Diana's pain".
Diana's daughter-in-law they wouldn't have a problem with. But as Royalistbert has stated, the title belongs to the crown, not an individual person.
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  #54  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:49 PM
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No Diana does not own the title, but she has been the most famous holder of said title. You hear the words and you think of Diana, you don't think of Mary or Alexandra or Caroline. You think of Diana. Doesn't matter where you go, who you ask, what year you ask, the answer will be the same.
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  #55  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:52 PM
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It will be interesting to see what William decides to do. As I said on the other thread, Charles has also stamped his own identity on the POW title. William may decide to establish his own identity before taking the POW title, or not. The title had been vacant for many years before Charles was given the title, so he really didn't have to compete with recent memories.

There is a question of what will happen with the existing POW charities. I am sure William acknowledges that they are all worthy, but I am sure he will want to establish his own priorities--and I think Charles would support him in that.

I'm only speculating but if I were William, I would want to wait a few years, see which charities stand on their own, and then take up the mantle (if the Welsh want him to). I would also be reluctant for my wife (if I had one) to take on the role of Princess of Wales. Diana didn't own the title, but she remains a beloved figure. I would shun the title until Catherine establishes her own identity as wife of the heir to the throne.

On the other hand, Catherine using the title will force some people to move on. Eventually, when they hear "Princess of Wales," they will start to think of Catherine rather than Diana. That has to be positive for the royal family.
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  #56  
Old 11-13-2013, 05:04 PM
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Also bear in mind that William served at RAF Valley and has learnt at least a few words of Welsh. All handy things for a Prince of Wales, certainly could suggest he and those aroud him think he may be Prince of Wales himself one day.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:19 PM
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On the other hand, Catherine using the title will force some people to move on. Eventually, when they hear "Princess of Wales," they will start to think of Catherine rather than Diana. That has to be positive for the royal family.
Exactly. Diana is only so closely associated with the title "Princess of Wales" because she was the only Princess of Wales in living memory (well, apart from Camilla ); before Diana, there hadn't been a Princess of Wales since 1910. No-one still alive remembers when Queen Mary was Princess of Wales, and no-one who does not have a keen interest in modern British history will be aware that Queen Alexandra essentially "owned" the title since she was Princess of Wales for a whopping 38 years. In the wider, historical, context, Diana is just another place holder in a long line of place holders. Much like that ring, in the ordinary course of time Catherine will be the person associated with the title.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
No Diana does not own the title, but she has been the most famous holder of said title. You hear the words and you think of Diana, you don't think of Mary or Alexandra or Caroline. You think of Diana. Doesn't matter where you go, who you ask, what year you ask, the answer will be the same.
I think of Mary or Alexandra when I hear or see the word princess of Wales. I don't think of Diana.
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  #59  
Old 11-13-2013, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
No Diana does not own the title, but she has been the most famous holder of said title. You hear the words and you think of Diana, you don't think of Mary or Alexandra or Caroline. You think of Diana. Doesn't matter where you go, who you ask, what year you ask, the answer will be the same.
I disagree. Diana isn't the most famous holder - she's just the one we think of now because she's the most recent holder and one of the few to not go on to become Queen - when we think of Mary or Alexandra or Caroline it tends to be of them as Queen and not of them as Princess of Wales. Similar can be said of the many Princes of Wales - we don't typically remember George III or George V as Prince of Wales, we remember them as King.

In 50 years, once someone else has used the title it won't be Diana people think of as Princess of Wales - much like how in 50 years it won't be Charles people think of as Prince of Wales. Time moves on, perceptions change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
It will be interesting to see what William decides to do. As I said on the other thread, Charles has also stamped his own identity on the POW title. William may decide to establish his own identity before taking the POW title, or not. The title had been vacant for many years before Charles was given the title, so he really didn't have to compete with recent memories.
While I agree with the idea that it might be hard for William to establish who he is as PoW separate from his father's legacy, I have a hard time buying the idea that a 30+ year old man doesn't have an idea of his own identity. William is establishing that now, and I can't see how delaying the title will change things. Regardless of his status as PoW, once he is heir he'll be compared to his father as heir as well (that happens now already).

While Charles had the freedom to establish his own identity free of the legacy of a recent PoW - which, in a way his age when he became heir apparent and later PoW both would have helped and hindered that - if William is quickly made PoW he won't be the first one to be put in such a position. Most PoWs in the past were created such soon after becoming the heir apparent, and most of those whose creation as such was delayed were children when they became the heir.

Consider George V - his father was the PoW for 60 years, and he was created PoW within 11 months of becoming heir apparent. Edward VIII became PoW less than 2 months after his grandfather died.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:28 PM
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Exactly. Diana is only so closely associated with the title "Princess of Wales" because she was the only Princess of Wales in living memory (well, apart from Camilla ); before Diana, there hadn't been a Princess of Wales since 1910. No-one still alive remembers when Queen Mary was Princess of Wales, and no-one who does not have a keen interest in modern British history will be aware that Queen Alexandra essentially "owned" the title since she was Princess of Wales for a whopping 38 years. In the wider, historical, context, Diana is just another place holder in a long line of place holders. Much like that ring, in the ordinary course of time Catherine will be the person associated with the title.
I agree, but the first few years will be full of comparisons. Many people still refer to the ring as Diana's but, I agree, sooner or later, it will be known as Catherine's ring.

William will be heir to the throne for a 15-20 years, if not longer. If I were William and Catherine, I would want to delay taking on the POW title for a few years. Becoming heir to the throne and his wife will be enough of an adjustment.

But I do see your point, the Diana comparisons will increase when Catherine becomes the wife of the heir, will settle down (I hope), but increase if she take the title of The Princess of Wales. Why not just get it over with.
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