Preferred Wives For William and Harry

[felicia]

Theodora is in his circle. The Greek Royal Family are often associating with the British Royals. Actually I would be satisfied with William marrying any woman descended from Queen Victoria born in the 1980s. Much of the aristocracy have royal backgrounds I know, so even that would be okay.

 

[kimebear]

While I am firmly a member of Team Theodora, he has never dated her although they have known each other forever.

Yes it would be nice if he made a dynastic marriage, but only if it is a love match. I do not really care how blue the blood is, if it only results in a cold loveless marriage. The next generation of royalty is in their hands and it would be a shame if the next monarch was raised in an atmosphere of quiet resentment or just cold contempt. I think William and Harry are dating out of their circle because they have seen first hand that marrying within it doesn't always work out for the best. A woman of common blood does not necessarily lack the grace, poise, honor and dignity that is desirable of a future queen.

 

[felicia]

While I am firmly a member of Team Theodora, he has never dated her although they have known each other forever.

Yes it would be nice if he made a dynastic marriage, but only if it is a love match. I do not really care how blue the blood is, if it only results in a cold loveless marriage. The next generation of royalty is in their hands and it would be a shame if the next monarch was raised in an atmosphere of quiet resentment or just cold contempt. I think William and Harry are dating out of their circle because they have seen first hand that marrying within it doesn't always work out for the best. A woman of common blood does not necessarily lack the grace, poise, honor and dignity that is desirable of a future queen.

Yes that's true. But it just isn't as satisfying. I too would not want William and Theodora to marry unless they were exceedingly fond of each other. Love is important, but of course it can occur between two royals. It's happened many times. Charles and Diana didn't work out, but that had nothing to do with Diana being the daughter of an Earl. They were just not compatible. I personally feel William and Harry currently feel as if they are nowhere near being ready to get married.

 

[Paula**]

I think William has to choose someone he loves,
but he can't forget, he's the future King, and he's wife will be Queen.
If he chooses a girl, (common or not) who is abble to change her life and support him in his role as King, i think is more than ok.

 

[Australian]

I agree with you kimebear. I think Harry and Wills realise that there is a world outside their family circles that is full of potential brides. I especially agree with you when you say that a common girl can also have grace and poise. I really think the family needs some new blood, perhaps a touch of common blood will do

 

[felicia]

No they don't "need" any "new blood" any more because there has not been any inbreeding for ages in the direct royal line leading down to William. They have enough common blood already, with the daughters of Earls marrying in. Theodora would be new blood, she and William are very distantly related. Their closest common ancestor is Queen Victoria I think and that was 6 generations ago for William and 5 for Theodora.

 

[kimebear]

Yes that's true. But it just isn't as satisfying. I too would not want William and Theodora to marry unless they were exceedingly fond of each other. Love is important, but of course it can occur between two royals. It's happened many times. Charles and Diana didn't work out, but that had nothing to do with Diana being the daughter of an Earl. They were just not compatible. I personally feel William and Harry currently feel as if they are nowhere near being ready to get married.

Yes, of course love between royals can happen, and who doesn't want the magnificant pomp and circumstance that would come from a wedding of the future King of England marrying with another royal or a noble house? But like you said, Charles and Diana's marriage not working out had nothing to do with her being the daughter of an Earl. The opposite is also true however. William's marriage with a daughter of a noble family may not be for the best just because her father is an earl.

 

[Australian]

No they don't "need" any "new blood" any more because there has not been any inbreeding for ages in the direct royal line leading down to William. They have enough common blood already, with the daughters of Earls marrying in. Theodora would be new blood, she and William are very distantly related. Their closest common ancestor is Queen Victoria I think and that was 6 generations ago for William and 5 for Theodora.

When I say "new blood" I mean non-aristocratic blood. I know there hasn't been any interbreeding for some time now. As far as i know, Sarah Ferguson was an aristorcat, Diana was, not too sure about Sophie (she was from a non aristocratic family right?)

 

[felicia]

Well of course they do not "need" non aristocratic blood. That is what you might like to see, but it is not needed. Sarah Ferguson was not an aristocrat and neither was Sophie, since they were both born without titles and not into titled families. I would like to make it clear that of course I don't think William should marry an aristocratic or royal woman just because of her lineage, but also they must have love for each other to take the step of marriage.

 

[Australian]

I know they do not need it necessarily, it is just an opinion that is all.
Sarah comes from an aristocratic background. She is a great-great-granddaughter of the 6th Duke of Buccleuch, a great-granddaughter of the 8th Viscount Powerscourt, a direct descendant of William the Conqueror, and a step-granddaughter of Air Marshal Sir Thomas Elmhirst. Through her paternal grandmother, Lady Elmhirst (née Marian Montagu-Douglas-Scott), she also is a distant cousin of Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester, an aunt of Queen Elizabeth II. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Ferguson

 

[felicia]

Yes I've come across all that when I was doing my genalogical research on the descendents of Mary Boleyn. (Anne Boleyn's sister and another ancestor of Sarah, Duchess of York). But I think I and most others would say Sarah was not born an aristocrat herself since she was not Lady Sarah or Hon. Sarah or anything like that, she had no title. But there was some noble ancestry there, yes. Sophie has some too going back to Edward III. Since there is nothing wrong with aristocratic blood, there is no need to have or want someone without it. We need an equal marriage for a change - William and Theodora!

 

[ksenia]

other candidates

No they don't "need" any "new blood" any more because there has not been any inbreeding for ages in the direct royal line leading down to William.

how close does the relationship have to be for it to be considered inbreeding? Even if we just start with the descendents Queen Victoria there has been quite a lot of mixing. His grandparents are cousins (HM and DoE). Even if he married into the Greek family they are considered cousins too through the DoE rather removed but there are blood ties there nonetheless. I think that if a dynastic match was sought there are some very aristocratic or princely continental families he can look to for a bride and not just Charlotte of Monaco. Sometimes these girls are mentioned out of the blue but they exist.

There was a post I beleive in the Cit Chat section about the bridal firm Pronovias using several of these young ladies for an article showcasing their new collection and telling a little something about their backgrounds. There are many options!

 

[Iluvbertie]

No they don't "need" any "new blood" any more because there has not been any inbreeding for ages in the direct royal line leading down to William. They have enough common blood already, with the daughters of Earls marrying in. Theodora would be new blood, she and William are very distantly related. Their closest common ancestor is Queen Victoria I think and that was 6 generations ago for William and 5 for Theodora.

There closest common ancestor would surely be George I of the Hellenes (I make them both only 4 generations from George I)

George - Andrew - Philip (DOE) - Charles - William
George - Constantine - Paul - Constantine - Theordore (might have the wrong person at the earlier Constantine level - was he the father of Paul or was it his brother?)

From Victoria

Victoria - Edward VII - George V- George VI - Elizabeth - Charles - William
Victoria - Victoria - Louise - Paul - Constantine - Theodora (if my research is correct regarding names here)

 

[Roslyn]

Yes it would be nice if he made a dynastic marriage, but only if it is a love match. I do not really care how blue the blood is, if it only results in a cold loveless marriage. The next generation of royalty is in their hands and it would be a shame if the next monarch was raised in an atmosphere of quiet resentment or just cold contempt. I think William and Harry are dating out of their circle because they have seen first hand that marrying within it doesn't always work out for the best. A woman of common blood does not necessarily lack the grace, poise, honor and dignity that is desirable of a future queen.

I see no particular virtue in William making a dynastic marriage these days, but otherwise share these sentiments, Kimebear.

What is it that we expect from a Queen consort today? Where is the precedent? We haven't had one for over 50 years, and the way the RF behaves vis a vis the public has changed considerably since the Queen Mother's days as Queen Consort. We expect the Royals to do a lot more PR today: to put on a show and earn their keep. We expect them to do more than smile and wave as the travel from one official function to another. They need certain skills that were not required of previous Queen Consorts, and I believe the necessary skills can be learned by the right person.

Yes, the Queen Consort will also be required to mix with other Royals and Heads of State, so needs certain social graces, but no more so than the wife of any major Head of State. A good education, preferably tertiary, and disciplined, enquiring mind, are more important than bloodlines, I think. If the person is genuinely compatible with the Royal spouse, is intelligent and knows what her duties are and is given the support she needs from the numerous available experts in protocol etc., she should be able to do the job well. And I think having a happy monarch is a very good thing, even if he and his wife are "boring".

I also think it's time for some innovative thinking, too. I applaud Diana for some of her views and the way she introduced her sons to the idea of mixing with ordinary people and getting to understand the way they live and what their concerns are and how she could help them. IMO this was a very good thing and there needs to be more of it. I think it would be good for William to marry someone not of noble birth, who has grown up in a middle class home, with middle class knowledge and concerns rather than to move back into the detached world of someone who has had a Royal or aristocratic upbringing.

People have spoken about the dificulties commoners face in adapting to life in the institution of the Monarchy, but the institution can be made to adapt, too. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II has reigned for a very long time, and though she has initiated many changes, it still reflects her personality and upbringing and views. While I don't expect many changes under Charles, I expect William to do so. I believe that in a modern Constitutional Monarchy the monarchy must continue to adapt to be relevant to the modern world, otherwise the Republican movement may prove irresistable to the majority of the population.

 

[HRH Elizabeth]

Well, for one thing, Kate always seems to be sulky and frowning. She was a bit of a wimp over the whole press thing and I just think, if you don't like it now, then it aint gonna get any better darling. I don't like the fact that she's not from an aristocratic background at all. I want a bit of class and breeding in my RF. I find Kate boring and plasticky and IMO William is very boring and plasticky. I just see them as a bland couple with no personality and that can't be a good thing.

This is a very interesting topic, especially because people feel so strongly about it. I find myself on the fence…while I absolutely hope that William finds a wife he can love, at the same time I find myself wondering if a true commoner would be able to adapt. People have mentioned the new crown princesses such as Mette Marit and Letizia, but it is important to note that Norway is a country with no nobility and a far less pronounced class system, and Letizia and Mary have only been royals for a few years; it remains to be seen if their marriages will last. At the same time, it is entirely possible that a common born woman might be a wonderful queen (one need look no further than Silvia of Sweden).
When it comes to Kate, I am less troubled by the lack of blue blood than I am by what I perceive as a lack of charisma. I agree with Beatrixfan about Kate in general, and while I could possibly be ok with a commoner, Kate strikes me as a particularly common one. William might be stable but he is not especially exciting, and it would be nice for him to marry a charismatic woman (not as dominating as Diana), but someone to invigorate the monarchy in a dignified way.
By the way, Beatrixfan, I was wondering what you would think of a woman who in terms of personality and upbringing was suited to marrying into royalty, and is descended from many royal and noble persons but has no title herself. For instance, someone with a genealogy similar to Sarah, Duchess of York (but far better behaved); perhaps a distant cousin of the Queen and descendent of Charlemagne but not an actual aristocrat. Would you overlook the lack of title because of the mixture of breeding, character and distant royal/noble blood, or would the title be tantamount?

 

[BeatrixFan]

Oh I'd look over the lack of a title if the pedigree was there but a title is always nice and I'd certainly give it a priority.

 

[felicia]

Theodora is descended from Queen Victoria at least twice:

Victoria - Arthur - Margaret - Ingrid - Anne-Marie - Theodora

and

Victoria - Victoria - Sophie - Paul - Constantine - Theodora

There may be another link as well. I think this means Theodora actually has more of Queen Victoria's blood than William, although he is descended from QV through both the Queen and Prince Philip.


You are right that the closer genetic link is through George I of the Hellenes. I didn't think of that at the time. Still I am sure that it is a gentic fact that there would be absolutely no genetic risk for them in getting married. They are not that closely related. I would consider it inbreeding if they were first cousins or double second cousins, and they are not even close to being that.

 

[felicia]

By the way, Beatrixfan, I was wondering what you would think of a woman who in terms of personality and upbringing was suited to marrying into royalty, and is descended from many royal and noble persons but has no title herself. For instance, someone with a genealogy similar to Sarah, Duchess of York (but far better behaved); perhaps a distant cousin of the Queen and descendent of Charlemagne but not an actual aristocrat. Would you overlook the lack of title because of the mixture of breeding, character and distant royal/noble blood, or would the title be tantamount?

I know the question isn't addressed to me, but I thought I would offer my opinion since I am so fixated on this. I would be okay with William marrying a title-less lady if she had some royal or noble background, a good education, and was a charismatic, hard-working and suitable lady. I compiled a list of all eligible descendents of Queen Victoria - I will try and post it later if I find it. I considered them having to be born in the 1980s to be eligible.

 

[Luv2Cruise]

But he likes Kate best.

 

[priscilla_kor]

I think a good queen with no royal background at all will be better than a bad queen with lineage, don't you think so? I agree with you (in general) saying that would be better if he marries an aristocratic woman but, what if she ends up being a terrible queen? You know, she can have all the blue blood you want, but if she doesn't do what she should do her blood will be nothing. On the other hand, the woman can be a commoner but still with a good education and a great sense of what is expected from her and fulfill it ... I think we are not anymore in the 19 century and there're now more important things to think about than her lineage, it doesn't guarantee anything when it comes to the good work she could do or all the help she could give to people.

 

[Australian]

I think it would be good for William to marry someone not of noble birth, who has grown up in a middle class home, with middle class knowledge and concerns rather than to move back into the detached world of someone who has had a Royal or aristocratic upbringing.
.

This is what I was trying to say. I completely agree with this notion.

 

[Luv2Cruise]

I too agree. And also someone whose family life was stable and loving, as apparently Kate's was, judging by her close association with her mother and sis. God please no more aristocratic brides with mommy or daddy issues.

 

[Incas]

People with mommy or daddy issues are not exclusive to any social economic class. Coming from different backgrounds do cause problems in any relationship. It really comes down to the couple involved and how well they communicate their individual experiences/hopes/etc to each other.

 

[TonyaR]

....When it comes to Kate, I am less troubled by the lack of blue blood than I am by what I perceive as a lack of charisma. I agree with Beatrixfan about Kate in general, and while I could possibly be ok with a commoner, Kate strikes me as a particularly common one. William might be stable but he is not especially exciting, and it would be nice for him to marry a charismatic woman (not as dominating as Diana), but someone to invigorate the monarchy in a dignified way...

I think Kate invigorates P. William! She is obviously good for him: for instance, she is the person who convinced him to continue on with his studies when he wanted to quit University. and as mentioned by Luv2Cruise

But he likes Kate best.

I think Incas has it right and people have to have common ground. Kate and William do have common ground, they have more than 3 years of shared experiences together at University, they have lived together and more importantly, had a chance to actually share some of the little, mundane things that can sometimes make or break a relationship. Kate has (probably)woken up in the morning and cooked William's breakfast for him at least once or twice, they may have even cooked a meal or done laundry together.

They've probably had study sessions together/with their flatmates, nights out at the local pub, and lots of friends in common, as well being of a similiar age, etc. Participating in these types of things can help people to learn one another, and show if a person is suited to your personality or not.

Kate is not aristocracy or nobility, but she is well educated, intelligent, attractive and VERY Sloan Rangerish, and her 'bland' outlook seems to suit William to a Tee! How do we know that she doesn't have something in her personality that he finds totally essential to a lasting relationship?

I actually do NOT believe that Prince William has made up his mind to marry 'Catherine Elizabeth Middleton', but I do think she is definitely the strongest contender (so far) for the position of 'Queen in Waiting'.

 

[felicia]

how close does the relationship have to be for it to be considered inbreeding? Even if we just start with the descendents Queen Victoria there has been quite a lot of mixing. His grandparents are cousins (HM and DoE). Even if he married into the Greek family they are considered cousins too through the DoE rather removed but there are blood ties there nonetheless. I think that if a dynastic match was sought there are some very aristocratic or princely continental families he can look to for a bride and not just Charlotte of Monaco. Sometimes these girls are mentioned out of the blue but they exist.

There was a post I beleive in the Cit Chat section about the bridal firm Pronovias using several of these young ladies for an article showcasing their new collection and telling a little something about their backgrounds. There are many options!

That's right, there are many options. But remember, she must not be a Catholic. Charlotte of Monaco is not an option therefore. I have compiled a list and there are indeed many suitable contenders. Every royal family has one in its extended members. Victoria Ribeiro in the Norweigan Royal Family (she is a descendent of Edward VII) and Juliana Guillermo in the Dutch Royal Family are of appropriate ages.

 

[felicia]

There closest common ancestor would surely be George I of the Hellenes (I make them both only 4 generations from George I)

George - Andrew - Philip (DOE) - Charles - William
George - Constantine - Paul - Constantine - Theordore (might have the wrong person at the earlier Constantine level - was he the father of Paul or was it his brother?)

This is right. Constantine was Paul's father.

From Victoria

Victoria - Edward VII - George V- George VI - Elizabeth - Charles - William
Victoria - Victoria - Louise - Paul - Constantine - Theodora (if my research is correct regarding names here)

No it's Victoria - Victoria - SOPHIE - Paul - Constantine - Theodora.

 

[princess olga]

That's right, there are many options. But remember, she must not be a Catholic. Charlotte of Monaco is not an option therefore. I have compiled a list and there are indeed many suitable contenders. Every royal family has one in its extended members. Victoria Ribeiro in the Norweigan Royal Family (she is a descendent of Edward VII) and Juliana Guillermo in the Dutch Royal Family are of appropriate ages.

Juliana Guillermo is indeed a well kept secret. Gorgeously exotic looks, discreet personality, lives in london even and had a grandmother who was queen, to boot.

 

[felicia]

Yes she is a great choice. I would be very happy if Juliana Guillermo of the Netherlands and William were to marry. She is Queen Juliana's grand-daughter and a highly suitable Queen for William. I do not think they are related at all. Juliana is not a descendent of Queen Victoria as far as I know.

 

[HRH Elizabeth]

But he likes Kate best.

For now, that's absolutely true, which makes our discussion entirely hypothetical.

 

[felicia]

Hopefully he won't like her best for long. He is still very young, there's plenty of time left for various girlfriends, before he decides to marry. That's why it annoys me when Kate is described as 'bride-to-be' or royal bride in waiting - I mean how ridiculous. They could break up next week. We and the press have no way of knowing when it will end and how.