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  #621  
Old 09-19-2014, 09:38 PM
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Hurrah that Scotland Is remaining a part of the United Kingdom!!
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  #622  
Old 09-19-2014, 09:46 PM
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Current images on Twitter of Glasgow in flames is NOT Glasgow.

These are images from Croydon 3 yrs ago.

Do not believe everything you see/read. There are some disgusting trolls out there jut trying to agitate violence. And they are not necessarily either Scottish or English. Social media really does have a dark side.
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  #623  
Old 09-21-2014, 11:00 AM
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Salmond is now saying the Scottish Parliament could unilaterally declare independence after gaining increasing numbers of powers.

So I guess the "sovereign will" of the people only counts if its a Yes vote?

Quote:
Alex Salmond has claimed No supporters were “tricked” into rejecting independence and raised the prospect of another referendum as he broke his promise to help unite Scotland after the divisive vote.

The First Minister appeared to blame elderly Scots, who were most hostile to leaving the UK, for holding back younger generations and argued that independence is inevitable after they die off.

In a startling intervention, he also claimed that another referendum may not be required to break up Britain as the Scottish Parliament could unilaterally declare independence after gaining increasing numbers of powers.
Alex Salmond says No voters were 'tricked' - Telegraph
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  #624  
Old 09-21-2014, 11:40 AM
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Tricked? Since when has any canny Scot ever been tricked into doing something he or she didn't want to do?!
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  #625  
Old 09-21-2014, 07:30 PM
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Tricked? I think not. If there was any "tricking" involved I tend to think it was him and his ilk glossing over the likely economic ramifications of a "Yes" vote. That part didn't seem to have been worked out very well by the proponents of independence and naturally people who have family commitments and mortgages, and older people worrying about the currency and interest rates and whether their savings will be enough to sustain them through their retirement, would be concerned about the lack of certainty in that regard and likely to vote for the safe option even if they were secretly yearning for an independent Scotland. Young adults without that sort of commitment are far more flexible and can afford to make decisions based on their ideals. And idealistic sixteen and seventeen-year-old teenagers are invincible!

I think Mr Salmond would do well to remain quiet as he does his cause no good to keep sniping like this. 45 in every hundred Scots voted in favour of independence so the conservatives should not take much comfort from the result. 45% of the population are dissatisfied with the status quo and want change. Mr Salmond should be working out answers to the questions that worried the 5% of the population whose vote was needed for "Yes" to win, and not whining and casting blame.
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  #626  
Old 09-21-2014, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
. . . . . Young adults without that sort of commitment are far more flexible and can afford to make decisions based on their ideals. And idealistic sixteen and seventeen-year-old teenagers are invincible!
Tricked? The only chicanery I see is the enfranchisement of those same idealistic 16 and 17 year olds in the (false) belief they could be easily swayed to vote yes.

Turns out they are just as diverse as other voters.
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  #627  
Old 09-21-2014, 08:24 PM
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Mad at the seniors in Scotland and saying they will die off eventually and Scotland will then be free..............what kind of idiot says that about his countrymen/women? He is a sore loser and full of his own poo for he wants to rule Scotland with a free hand so he can be what.........king of Scotland in his mind only. I hope all that put him in office vote him out next time and realize what a creep he is.................and when he becomes a senior if he makes it that far for we all don't know the future, he will be very lucky to be a senior in a Scotland that loves all it's people regardless of how they voted. What an imbecile he is....
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  #628  
Old 09-21-2014, 08:28 PM
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Marg - and everyone else - have you seen any reports on how those 16 and 17 year olds did actually vote? I haven't. I think it would be very interesting.
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  #629  
Old 09-21-2014, 08:31 PM
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I always wanted Scotland to stay in the Union. And yesterday I sat and talked thru with my other half how happy I was but how I respected Salmond and what he had done for Scotland and respected how he had stood down having lost. Now this.....

Tne respect I had is floundering in the idea that the "new" scottish powers could deliver UDI!

Is he completely bonkers?

there will be no powers to allow this - and nor should there be. the majority said NO and a poll today said that the majority still supported SNP but "please dont do this to us again"

Hero to zero in less than 36 hours.
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  #630  
Old 09-22-2014, 04:39 AM
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My Scottish Grandfather had no time for the pro-independence. His opinion was " look who will benefit the most and you will see why they are promoting it" Mr Salmond has just proven my grandfather correct. Salmond is not interested in democracy but in his own power trip.
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  #631  
Old 09-22-2014, 05:16 AM
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I had a hearty laugh at these two snippets from The New Yorker. But if you think it is too soon to make jokes, don’t read them.

Queen Rips “Scottish Bastards” in Angry Televised Address

Queen Accepts Scotland’s Apology

Compare the pithy wit of Andy Borowitz to the dull heaviness of this piece by Eryk Bagshaw in The Age a couple of days ago. If poor old Eryk wants to show how clever and iconoclastic he is, I’m afraid to say this sad little attempt to provoke outrage falls a bit flat. A couple of teasing jokes might help alleviate the leaden monotony of his indignant ramblings, but does he have the humour to pull it off? I’m not so sure.
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  #632  
Old 09-22-2014, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessOfPeace View Post
Salmond is now saying the Scottish Parliament could unilaterally declare independence after gaining increasing numbers of powers.

So I guess the "sovereign will" of the people only counts if its a Yes vote?

Alex Salmond says No voters were 'tricked' - Telegraph
Here was a perfect opportunity for Alex Salmond to gracefully retired and be remembered for his role in brining independence to the fore. His latest actions may mean that history may not judge him as positively, to put it mildly.
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  #633  
Old 09-22-2014, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Marg - and everyone else - have you seen any reports on how those 16 and 17 year olds did actually vote? I haven't. I think it would be very interesting.
There are several breakdowns, available through google. Here are a couple.

Scotland's Other Winners: Teenage Voters - Bloomberg View

The No kids: has Alex Salmond fatally misjudged under-18s? | Scots Independence News | The Week UK
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  #634  
Old 09-22-2014, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubb Fuddler View Post
I had a hearty laugh at these two snippets from The New Yorker. But if you think it is too soon to make jokes, don’t read them.

Queen Rips “Scottish Bastards” in Angry Televised Address

Queen Accepts Scotland’s Apology

Compare the pithy wit of Andy Borowitz to the dull heaviness of this piece by Eryk Bagshaw in The Age a couple of days ago. If poor old Eryk wants to show how clever and iconoclastic he is, I’m afraid to say this sad little attempt to provoke outrage falls a bit flat. A couple of teasing jokes might help alleviate the leaden monotony of his indignant ramblings, but does he have the humour to pull it off? I’m not so sure.
I was going to say that my favourite part was “I’ll make you heel like a litter of [Anglo-Saxon vulgarity] corgis.” but then I read the second link which has just such a beautiful ending. That was great, thank you.
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  #635  
Old 09-22-2014, 08:59 AM
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Yes, the end of the second one is my favourite. I laughed so suddenly that I snorted!
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  #636  
Old 09-22-2014, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I was going to say that my favourite part was “I’ll make you heel like a litter of [Anglo-Saxon vulgarity] corgis.” but then I read the second link which has just such a beautiful ending. That was great, thank you.
The second laugh for me was realizing how badly her corgis come to heel.
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  #637  
Old 09-22-2014, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Thanks.
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  #638  
Old 09-22-2014, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I always wanted Scotland to stay in the Union. And yesterday I sat and talked thru with my other half how happy I was but how I respected Salmond and what he had done for Scotland and respected how he had stood down having lost. Now this.....

Tne respect I had is floundering in the idea that the "new" scottish powers could deliver UDI!

Is he completely bonkers?

there will be no powers to allow this - and nor should there be. the majority said NO and a poll today said that the majority still supported SNP but "please dont do this to us again"

Hero to zero in less than 36 hours.
The new powers to be transferred to the Scottish parliament do not include the power to end the Union. Only the Westminster parliament, being sovereign, can legally grant sovereignty to Scotland.

Of course, AS or any other Scottish leader for that matter can always make a unilateral declaration of independence (as the Americans did in 1776), but that would not be valid under British law and I doubt any country in the world (except perhaps North Korea) would recognize it, meaning it would have no validity in international law either.
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  #639  
Old 09-22-2014, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The new powers to be transferred to the Scottish parliament do not include the power to end the Union. Only the Westminster parliament, being sovereign, can legally grant sovereignty to Scotland.

Of course, AS or any other Scottish leader for that matter can always make a unilateral declaration of independence (as the Americans did in 1776), but that would not be valid under British law and I doubt any country in the world (except perhaps North Korea) would recognize it, meaning it would have no validity in international law either.
IMO, it really is time to try and heal the divisions, and try and focus on job creation and economic independence for large numbers of people in Scotland. I do wish Alex Salmond and the SNP, as the government of devlved Scotland, could provide some ideas on how they propose to do this.
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  #640  
Old 09-23-2014, 08:55 AM
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Here is an interesting breakdown of the voting by age group-

YouGov analysis of Indy vote:
16-24 was 51%-49% NO
25-39 was 55%-45% YES
40-59 was 53%-47% NO
60-64 was 55%-45% NO
65+....was 66%-34% NO


The idea that the young are overwhelmingly anti Union is shown to be a fallacy...
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