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  #401  
Old 09-16-2014, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
A few thoughts
[*]This thread should really be restricted to implications of the Scottish referendum on the Crown, and not for political statements. That said, in response to some of the views expressed here, I have put some of my thoughts down.
I do agree that the thread should relate to implications of the referendum on the Crown, but it is difficult not to discuss the political side to things too.
Nonetheless, I do think that most of not everyone who has contributed to this thread has done a remarkable and wonderful job in keeping things on the straight and narrow.
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  #402  
Old 09-16-2014, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
I agree with you whole-heartedly here. Personally, I would would vote YES just to shut them up!
Today, the thing that is on my mind the most is the duplicity of the government's stance in all this. We're better off together, we don't want you to go, please keep the union - and then in the same breath - if you go independent, that's it, no going back, you're on your own, we won't help you etc etc.
If I were in a position to vote in this referendum and was undecided, the sort of bully-boy tactic of which you speak would drive me to vote "yes" even if I was uncertain deep down.

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It is the ordinary folk of Scotland who are being asked to make a decision. These ordinary folk are muched loved by the people of the rest of the UK, they are our cousins and friends. If they choose to go independent, we should still be there for them, to support and encourage them in their quest for independent future and if that means financial and economic support for a few years until they are on their feet, then so be it.
And more of this sort of sentiment might persuade me to vote "no", though it might also make me feel comfortable enough to follow my heart and vote "yes", safe in the knowledge I wasn't going to be punished for it by those who had so recently been my fellow-countrymen and, I thought, friends.
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  #403  
Old 09-16-2014, 07:32 AM
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There have been threats from both sides. Neither side have been model of decorum.


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  #404  
Old 09-16-2014, 07:43 AM
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Jacknch

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muched loved by the people of the rest of the UK, they are our cousins and friends. If they choose to go independent, we should still be there for them, to support and encourage them in their quest for independent future and if that means financial and economic support for a few years until they are on their feet, then so be it.
That is all very cuddly and lovely, but the reality is that many English people feel rather angry and [even] embittered by the [perceived] desertion of those they considered countrymen. Many. many are unhappy that we should be expected to meekly continue to support those who have given us two fingers..
IF they go, I am no longer prepared to consider them part of my wider family and I expect them to stand on their own two feet, or [rather more likely] run cap in hand to their new masters... the EU.
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  #405  
Old 09-16-2014, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Jacknch



That is all very cuddly and lovely, but the reality is that many English people feel rather angry and [even] embittered by the [perceived] desertion of those they considered countrymen. Many. many are unhappy that we should be expected to meekly continue to support those who have given us two fingers..
IF they go, I am no longer prepared to consider them part of my wider family and I expect them to stand on their own two feet, or [rather more likely] run cap in hand to their new masters... the EU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
I agree with you whole-heartedly here. Personally, I would would vote YES just to shut them up!
Today, the thing that is on my mind the most is the duplicity of the government's stance in all this. We're better off together, we don't want you to go, please keep the union - and then in the same breath - if you go independent, that's it, no going back, you're on your own, we won't help you etc etc.
Those sentiments alone make me wonder whether anyone would want to governed by an English parliament and MPs.
Mr Cameron has expressed his opinions in the wrong way, hardly endearing the Scottish people to his way of thinking.
And let us remember - this is NOT a political matter where Mr Salmond is pitted against Mr Cameron in some sort of dubious mud-wrestling pit like a House of Commons brawl. It is the ordinary folk of Scotland who are being asked to make a decision * These ordinary folk are muched loved by the people of the rest of the UK, they are our cousins and friends. If they choose to go independent, we should still be there for them, to support and encourage them in their quest for independent future and if that means financial and economic support for a few years until they are on their feet, then so be it.

*Not only am I interested in seeing a majority vote one way or the other, I cannot wait to find out the % of Scottish voter who actually turned out at the polling stations.
Respectfully, I have to disagree. Whilst we may have friends and family on the other side of the border and will always consider them so, it will no longer be for rUK to finance or fund Scotland or financially support them following separation. They will be on their own after that. That is their choice. As a UK taxpayer, I would certainly not want HM's government to spend my money on supporting the Scots in any way. I would much rather the money be spent in the UK, or other parts of the world more deserving of it.
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  #406  
Old 09-16-2014, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
I agree with you whole-heartedly here. Personally, I would would vote YES just to shut them up!
Today, the thing that is on my mind the most is the duplicity of the government's stance in all this. We're better off together, we don't want you to go, please keep the union - and then in the same breath - if you go independent, that's it, no going back, you're on your own, we won't help you etc etc.
Those sentiments alone make me wonder whether anyone would want to governed by an English parliament and MPs.
Mr Cameron has expressed his opinions in the wrong way, hardly endearing the Scottish people to his way of thinking.
And let us remember - this is NOT a political matter where Mr Salmond is pitted against Mr Cameron in some sort of dubious mud-wrestling pit like a House of Commons brawl. It is the ordinary folk of Scotland who are being asked to make a decision * These ordinary folk are muched loved by the people of the rest of the UK, they are our cousins and friends. If they choose to go independent, we should still be there for them, to support and encourage them in their quest for independent future and if that means financial and economic support for a few years until they are on their feet, then so be it.

*Not only am I interested in seeing a majority vote one way or the other, I cannot wait to find out the % of Scottish voter who actually turned out at the polling stations.
Now that is a wonderful post. My compliments.

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  #407  
Old 09-16-2014, 09:09 AM
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Well, I'm afraid I live too much in a bubble with a great big pair of rose-tinted spectacles I am also very much in denial and putting off the reality of it all until I know what's what on Friday morning (or earlier as I will be watching the results all night of I have to).
What Muriel and Wyevaley have said above is perfectly alright by me, but I think it all depends on the % turnout and also the % of the result. If MOST Scots turn out to vote and MOST of them vote Yes, then sure, leave them to it then. If most Scots turn out to vote and most vote No, then that must say something good about how they feel being part of the UK?
Regarding bailouts, we seem to be happy to assist countries in the Eurozone who fall on hard times - would this not be the case with our nearest neighbour?

On a more Royal related matter, does anyone think it would be rather nice and cuddly if the Queen addressed the nation to give a bit of public spirited impartiality to the whole thing? I know she is constitutionally prevented from even showing the remotest impartiality and interest in a public way, but it'd be a good contrast against our party leaders, who publicly say anything they like and constantly get it wrong!
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  #408  
Old 09-16-2014, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
I agree with you whole-heartedly here. Personally, I would would vote YES just to shut them up! .

I feel the same way
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  #409  
Old 09-16-2014, 09:14 AM
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It would be a shame to see the UK breakup like this though.
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  #410  
Old 09-16-2014, 10:07 AM
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So,



or

?

I like them both. Each of them stirs me more than



It is the people that make a country great. Not one privileged individual.

Oh, and note the words of the sixth verse that is rarely allowed to be heard these days. I wonder why?

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!
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  #411  
Old 09-16-2014, 10:23 AM
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Shame the almost 1 million Scots living or working in England and abroad aren't allowed a say on their own country but then again this whole process isn't about what's fair or what's right.
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  #412  
Old 09-16-2014, 10:39 AM
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Looks like Andrew will be in Scotland the day of the referendum;

@RoyalCentral: The Duke of York is attending the 14th The Duke of York Champions Trophy at The Royal Aberdeen Golf Club in Scotland from the 16th-18th.
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  #413  
Old 09-16-2014, 11:21 AM
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An independent Scotland would be forced to wait at least five years to join the EU and would then have to sign up to the euro, the Spanish government has warned in a major intervention 48 hours before the referendum that directly contradicts Alex Salmond’s claims.

Inigo Mendez de Vigo, the Spanish European Affairs Minister, rejected the First Minister’s claims Scotland could negotiate membership “from within” the EU, saying it would have to apply from scratch and follow the usual accession process.

He told BBC’s Newsnight programme Jean-Claude Juncker, the new European Commission president, has hinted this would take five years and no new member state would be given an opt-out from the single currency.
Spanish warn independent Scotland would get euro not pound - Telegraph
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  #414  
Old 09-16-2014, 11:56 AM
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This just gets better and better!
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  #415  
Old 09-16-2014, 12:39 PM
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This was entertaining and I think he's spot on.
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  #416  
Old 09-16-2014, 01:03 PM
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Shame the almost 1 million Scots living or working in England and abroad aren't allowed a say on their own country but then again this whole process isn't about what's fair or what's right.
That is logical. British citizens residing in France, for an example in my little town of Lapalisse, can vote for the municipality there. They can no longer vote for the municipality they once lived in and left behind in the UK. That is the same principle.



When I live in Bournemouth, I can vote for there and no longer in Lapalisse. Exactly the same principle. The Scots whom have left Scotland have no longer a direct interest in the Scottish administration. Foreigners who reside in Scotland have: they pay taxes to that administration, they use public service, etc. So it is logical that Scots who no longer live in Scotland lost their vote.
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  #417  
Old 09-16-2014, 02:54 PM
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^^^ Not really because as of right now we are still the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Thousands of Scots soldiers based in England aren't allowed to vote and after their service ends they may return to a foreign country.

Alex Salmond has rigged this vote with all of the skill and cunning of a Chicago mob boss.
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  #418  
Old 09-16-2014, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Foreigners who reside in Scotland have: they pay taxes to that administration, they use public service, etc. So it is logical that Scots who no longer live in Scotland lost their vote.
It's different in the Netherlands, even if you don't live in the NL anymore you can still vote for the election of the dutch House of Representatives..
But you can't really compare different nations anyway, different cultures, different customs
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  #419  
Old 09-16-2014, 03:30 PM
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The humor of John Oliver hit it right on the spot. All the nonsense that has been spouted on both sides, has led them to this. It is a real conundrum, how it will all work, will have to be seen. But it is for Scots to say and no one else.
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  #420  
Old 09-16-2014, 04:05 PM
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^^^ Not really because as of right now we are still the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Thousands of Scots soldiers based in England aren't allowed to vote and after their service ends they may return to a foreign country.

Alex Salmond has rigged this vote with all of the skill and cunning of a Chicago mob boss.
Well, the UK Government and the Westminster parties agreed with the conditions of this Referendum, so probably it is -again- a sign of total underestimation of the Scottish desire, like they have underestimated the electoral power of the SNP during the last two elections for the Scottish Parliament. We can not blame Mr Salmond for playing the game masterfully and succeeding to bring all and everyone in narrow shoes now.
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