Possible Scottish Independence and the Monarchy


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I can't believe that the thing has all escalated into this, half of the Scots joining a populist charlatan. A good reason never to give a referendum to any region ever again.

There are 100+ regions in Europe that can claim some sort of independence. Just now EUrope is crawling out of the economic crisis, this can set us all right back into a new one. And for what?

Although the scare-tactics of the no-camp have quite the reverse effect I am not sure if the bullying tactics of the yes-populists should be rewarded either.

Don’t let Alex Salmond blind you to the yes campaign’s dark side | Martin Kettle | Comment is free | The Guardian
 
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I thought Reuters Live would provide some coverage but none of their videos work anymore and they seem to have stopped tweeting in July. What happened to Reuters Live?
 
wyevale said:
The reason I hope the Scots stay in the United Kingdom [apart from an emotional attachment to the nation of my birth] is my belief in solidarity, in a world of fewer rather than more borders and in the union itself – as the best method of sharing the rewards and risks of our collective life together on what is still a small island....
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:previous:
Eloquently, economically, and elegantly expressed.
 
Ok, I'll say it...the reason I hope the UK stays intact is because I think the Union Jack is such a pretty flag! (I know...I'm shallow).
 
Jacknch said:
Yes, I think at this stage some lightheartedness is needed, because it is almost crunch time and my nerves are getting frayed. Is anyone staying up all night tomorrow to find out the result? The announcement is expected around early morning here in the UK.
I keep thinking of all our overseas friends - in the US particularly - who have to burn the candle at each end to watch a royal wedding. What do I need for an all night TV watching marathon apart from coffee?! Will anyone be online here at 3.30am :eek:
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Do you have to work tomorrow? That's the real problem to these all-nighters.

I have a job now that every once and a while requires an almost all-nighter. You're done for for about 2-3 days afterwards, unfortunately, if you have to get up the next day.

I suspect that there will be many zombies tomorrow in the U.K.

I won't be up at 2 am to hear the official results though if I wake up I'll likely check my phone for the results. I've done that when royal babies are on the way.
 
So do we know? Scotland in or out? When will we know? I hope for Scotland to stay with UK :flowers:
 
RoyalNight said:
So do we know? Scotland in or out? When will we know? I hope for Scotland to stay with UK :flowers:
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The voters still can vote until 22.00 o'clock (local time) and then it will be a long wait to know for sure what the result will be.

:flowers:
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
BBC News - What would the union jack look like if the Scottish bit were removed?

Maybe you like one of these ;):p

No matter what outcome, I think the rift between english and scottish will be at an all time low what is a pity. It's almost coming down to hate now.
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Come on, of course it will take some time for the YES or the NO camp to come to terms with the result of the Referendum but life goes on. The kids need to go to school, the shopping must be done, the factories continue and there will still be electricity coming out of the contacts. It is in no way comparable with "The Troubles" in Northern-Ireland. 99,9% of the electorate has behaved impeccably. Here and there are some hotheads with emotions running too high, but all will come well.

For us, monarchists, little will change. The known faces of the Queen, the Duke of Rothesay and the Earl of Strathearn (Elizabeth, Charles and William) will remain, no matter the outcome of today's Referendum.

:flowers:
 
Royalnight..

It is expected that the result will be known between 6 and 7 am GMT
 
I wonder why it takes that long. It is fairly simple: YES or NO. It is not like in normal elections with various lists and candidates. But indeed: as long as it remains too close to call, it will take a long time indeed.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
I wonder why it takes that long. It is fairly simple: YES or NO. It is not like in normal elections with various lists and candidates. But indeed: as long as it remains too close to call, it will take a long time indeed.
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IT is a manual voting system; the regional counts need time to get the ballot boxes in from outlying areas, they need to be validated (to ensure all accounted for) and then the count begins. There may be a need for recounts (who knows) but with an anticipated 85% turnout, thats over 4m ballot papers.
 
cepe said:
IT is a manual voting system; the regional counts need time to get the ballot boxes in from outlying areas, they need to be validated (to ensure all accounted for) and then the count begins. There may be a need for recounts (who knows) but with an anticipated 85% turnout, thats over 4m ballot papers.
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The same system is used here in France and the first indications of the results can be given just after poll stations closure.
 
Sancia said:
The same system is used here in France and the first indications of the results can be given just after poll stations closure.
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We dont give any official indication but in a general election, "exit polls" are taken by the political parties and they may comment. Same during the count - political parties may give an indication - but never official.

In the case of the Referendum there are no exit polls.
 
cepe said:
We dont give any official indication but in a general election, "exit polls" are taken by the political parties and they may comment. Same during the count - political parties may give an indication - but never official.

In the case of the Referendum there are no exit polls.
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Thanks for these precisions. That is the difference with France. We have exit polls even in the case of a referendum.
 
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I hate to say it but to me it seems like Scotland is like the teenager who's just come of age and rushes to move out of their parent's house so they can be "free". Six months later they're back home or crashing on a friend's sofa because they didn't realize how expensive freedom really is.
 
cepe said:
IT is a manual voting system; the regional counts need time to get the ballot boxes in from outlying areas, they need to be validated (to ensure all accounted for) and then the count begins. There may be a need for recounts (who knows) but with an anticipated 85% turnout, thats over 4m ballot papers.
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So, will we only know the result once all areas have been counted or will each area's count be declared as and when it has, erm, been counted? I had this insane idea that the first results from smaller areas would be known pretty soon after the voting has closed. I'm not staying up all night long if nothing is going to be announced until the morning lol
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
I wonder why it takes that long. It is fairly simple: YES or NO. It is not like in normal elections with various lists and candidates. But indeed: as long as it remains too close to call, it will take a long time indeed.
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We in the US thought so until the 2000 election. Just because there are only two options does not mean counting ballots will be easy.
 
Scottish voters are set to narrowly reject independence today, according to the last poll published before the result is announced tomorrow morning.
The ‘No’ campaign goes into today’s referendum six points clear of the Alex Salmond’s nationalists – with 53 per cent of those certain to vote telling pollsters they will opt against separation.
Among those certain to vote, 50 per cent say they will vote No, with 45 per cent saying they will back independence. A further 4 per cent are still undecided, according to the pollsters Ipsos MORI.
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Scotland set to REJECT independence as 'No' campaign takes six point lead | Daily Mail Online
 
Kellydofc said:
I hate to say it but to me it seems like Scotland is like the teenager who's just come of age and rushes to move out of their parent's house so they can be "free". Six months later they're back home or crashing on a friend's sofa because they didn't realize how expensive freedom really is.
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Your comparison with a teenager does not hold stand. The Kingdom of Scotland exists since 843, in 1603 it became joined with England in a personal union and finally in 1707 it really unified with England into an United Kingdom. This means that Scotland is an ancient and proud state. When the Scots vote for YES this simply means that a majority feels the Union is no longer working. There have been many signals and wake-up calls, not in the least the landslide victory of Mr Salmond at the last Elections, defying all polls (!). When the Scots feel that Scottish interests are best served in Scottish hands, then this is a honourable opinion.

Yesterday in a BBC debate a NO-supporter urged that it is indeed a shame that there is high unemployment, poverty, food banks and children in shameful circumstances, in a nation potentially so rich as Scotland. The NO-supporter urged to stay together so that "we together can tackle unemployment, poverty and food banks". A lady from the YES-camp countered this that they ARE together for 308 years and there is unemployment, poverty, food banks and children in shameful circumstances, exactly in this so splendid and glorious Union. Her question was why she should believe the NO-camp that staying together would finally tackle these problems better.

The NO-camp fell silent and had no real answer on this. For me this was, in a small detail, a show that many Scots feel the Union serves "London" first and foremost, true or not true. That is the impression and apparently this feeling is deep-rooted and widespread.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
Your comparison with a teenager does not hold stand. The Kingdom of Scotland exists since 843, in 1603 it became joined with England in a personal union and finally in 1707 it really unified with England into an United Kingdom. This means that Scotland is an ancient and proud state. When the Scots vote for YES this simply means that a majority feels the Union is no longer working. There have been many signals and wake-up calls, not in the least the landslide victory of Mr Salmond at the last Elections, defying all polls (!). When the Scots feel that Scottish interests are best served in Scottish hands, then this is a honourable opinion.

Yesterday in a BBC debate a NO-supporter urged that it is indeed a shame that there is high unemployment, poverty, food banks and children in shameful circumstances, in a nation potentially so rich as Scotland. The NO-supporter urged to stay together so that "we together can tackle unemployment, poverty and food banks". A lady from the YES-camp countered this that they ARE together for 308 years and there is unemployment, poverty, food banks and children in shameful circumstances, exactly in this so splendid and glorious Union. Her question was why she should believe the NO-camp that staying together would finally tackle these problems better.

The NO-camp fell silent and had no real answer on this. For me this was, in a small detail, a show that many Scots feel the Union serves "London" first and foremost, true or not true. That is the impression and apparently this feeling is deep-rooted and widespread.
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The point is I don't think Scotland's Yes party has thought through the full economic ramifications of independence. I know where I live people feel everything is done for the capital but I think most of us know that there is no way we could financially break away even though every once in awhile nutters still talk about session. I know if the Yes party wins I will almost certainly not visit Scotland on my next trip to the UK. I just don't think it will be worth the hassle and most of my friends who are planning trips to the UK are saying the same thing. Independence sounds great but as anyone who's been involved in American politics can tell you it can also be horribly divisive.
 
Kellydofc said:
The point is I don't think Scotland's Yes party has thought through the full economic ramifications of independence. I know where I live people feel everything is done for the capital but I think most of us know that there is no way we could financially break away even though every once in awhile nutters still talk about session. I know if the Yes party wins I will almost certainly not visit Scotland on my next trip to the UK. I just don't think it will be worth the hassle and most of my friends who are planning trips to the UK are saying the same thing. Independence sounds great but as anyone who's been involved in American politics can tell you it can also be horribly divisive.
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We can argue that Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania are more prosperous then they were in the Soviet Union. We can argue that both the Czech Republic and Slovakia have fared better since they split in a "velvet divorce". We can argue that countries as Croatia and Slovenia have reached a far higher standard of living since they broke away from Yugoslavia. In general I am no supporter of separatism but it is hard to find any nation which has fared worser since they split away, leaving some obvious exceptions like Serbia (the backbone state of former Yugoslavia). The argument of Scotland will impoverish without Britain has -so far- not found evidence in other examples in Europe.

:flowers:
 
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