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  #281  
Old 09-10-2014, 03:10 PM
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This is all getting very exciting! I just wonder what way Scotland will vote on the 18th, I always assumed (since the referendum was confirmed) that the Scots would vote NO, but now I'm not so sure.


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  #282  
Old 09-10-2014, 03:22 PM
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Possible Scottish Independence and the Monarchy

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Originally Posted by DukeJonathan81 View Post
This is all getting very exciting! I just wonder what way Scotland will vote on the 18th, I always assumed (since the referendum was confirmed) that the Scots would vote NO, but now I'm not so sure.


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I think it will be No. Don't always believe Polls as they can be very misleading sometimes. Some this week like Panelbase and Survation shows the No vote ahead. It will probably be closr


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  #283  
Old 09-10-2014, 07:44 PM
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The English — who subsidise Scotland to the tune of £17.6 billion a year according to the most recent Treasury figures — are not allowed a say, as if the Union were about Scotland alone.
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  #284  
Old 09-10-2014, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by PrincessOfPeace View Post
The English — who subsidise Scotland to the tune of £17.6 billion a year according to the most recent Treasury figures — are not allowed a say, as if the Union were about Scotland alone.
Hmmm. According to this reasoning, a wealthy husband who has been financially supporting his wife throughout their marriage should have a say in whether or not the woman, who has had enough of what has become an unhappy marriage and wants a divorce and independence, is able to in fact get her freedom, on the basis that he has been spending lots of money on her and their children over the years and he doesn't want to lose the services she has been providing him/them?

Perhaps not a perfect analogy - and only relevant in no-fault divorce jurisdictions - because the husband will almost certainly have to keep paying at least some of her expenses, but nevertheless it is a similarly patronising approach.

Further, in the case of Scotland and England I would think England might be happy to have the opportunity to spend that £17.6 billion a year on those who remain within the union and not the ungrateful Scots who want the right to run their country themselves.
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  #285  
Old 09-10-2014, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Hmmm. According to this reasoning, a wealthy husband who has been financially supporting his wife throughout their marriage should have a say in whether or not the woman, who has had enough of what has become an unhappy marriage and wants a divorce and independence, is able to in fact get her freedom, on the basis that he has been spending lots of money on her and their children over the years and he doesn't want to lose the services she has been providing him/them?

Perhaps not a perfect analogy - and only relevant in no-fault divorce jurisdictions - because the husband will almost certainly have to keep paying at least some of her expenses, but nevertheless it is a similarly patronising approach.

Further, in the case of Scotland and England I would think England might be happy to have the opportunity to spend that £17.6 billion a year on those who remain within the union and not the ungrateful Scots who want the right to run their country themselves.
I know people here are quite upset at the prospect of a "yes" vote, but it would be interesting to watch what happens next.
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  #286  
Old 09-10-2014, 08:58 PM
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What does it mean that the UK "subsidizes" Scotland to the tune of almost 18 Billion a year? Is that net or gross?

I only ask because here in the states that would be a difficult calculation for any State (not the same as the UK, I realize - but it is the closest model with which I am familiar). That's because there is Federal Money that flows to the states, but some, not all of it is for National programs (roads, Defense, natural resources, etc.) Also, people and businesses in states fund the Federal government through taxes. My national government could not help fund state and local programs if I did not pay my Federal Taxes. Even charity money flows in a very complex way: locally, regionally, nationally and that also finds its way into the overall national economy.

Anyway - that's a sincere question I am asking about the subsidy.
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  #287  
Old 09-10-2014, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
What does it mean that the UK "subsidizes" Scotland to the tune of almost 18 Billion a year? Is that net or gross?

I only ask because here in the states that would be a difficult calculation for any State (not the same as the UK, I realize - but it is the closest model with which I am familiar). That's because there is Federal Money that flows to the states, but some, not all of it is for National programs (roads, Defense, natural resources, etc.) Also, people and businesses in states fund the Federal government through taxes. My national government could not help fund state and local programs if I did not pay my Federal Taxes. Even charity money flows in a very complex way: locally, regionally, nationally and that also finds its way into the overall national economy.

Anyway - that's a sincere question I am asking about the subsidy.
I've been told that here in the U.S. the wealthier states subsidize the poorer ones - I'm guessing but it must mean that money allocated for instance for highways is pooled and whoever needs it gets it - it does not go back to the state in the proportion to the taxes paid.
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  #288  
Old 09-10-2014, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
What does it mean that the UK "subsidizes" Scotland to the tune of almost 18 Billion a year? Is that net or gross?

I only ask because here in the states that would be a difficult calculation for any State (not the same as the UK, I realize - but it is the closest model with which I am familiar). That's because there is Federal Money that flows to the states, but some, not all of it is for National programs (roads, Defense, natural resources, etc.) Also, people and businesses in states fund the Federal government through taxes. My national government could not help fund state and local programs if I did not pay my Federal Taxes. Even charity money flows in a very complex way: locally, regionally, nationally and that also finds its way into the overall national economy.

Anyway - that's a sincere question I am asking about the subsidy.
I'm about to make a risky post but I think it's a good estimate (but admit its not exact).

Per capita the payments to regions are c. as follows

N Ireland £8,800
Scotland £8,300
Wales £8, or £7,900
England £7,700

The numbers might be slightly out (because I cant find the source doco and doing from memory) but the order is correct. England receives less per capita from Whitehall than any other region. It is also the only region that does not have its own assembly.
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  #289  
Old 09-10-2014, 09:28 PM
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Hard-pressed English taxpayers today see Scottish families enjoying free tuition in higher education (worth £9,000 a year), widespread exemptions from prescription charges and state-funded care for the elderly, and wonder why we don’t get the same benefits, even though we contribute to Scotland’s.
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  #290  
Old 09-10-2014, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
What does it mean that the UK "subsidizes" Scotland to the tune of almost 18 Billion a year? Is that net or gross?

I only ask because here in the states that would be a difficult calculation for any State (not the same as the UK, I realize - but it is the closest model with which I am familiar). That's because there is Federal Money that flows to the states, but some, not all of it is for National programs (roads, Defense, natural resources, etc.) Also, people and businesses in states fund the Federal government through taxes. My national government could not help fund state and local programs if I did not pay my Federal Taxes. Even charity money flows in a very complex way: locally, regionally, nationally and that also finds its way into the overall national economy.

Anyway - that's a sincere question I am asking about the subsidy.

You are right and so, most of the northern states subsidize the southern state. As the Commonwealth of Massachusetts get back from the Federal Government .62 cents on the dollar, while Tennessee, get $1.27
Or Louisiana get $1.74. It is distributed on need. I have no idea how the UK works.
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  #291  
Old 09-10-2014, 09:50 PM
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You are right and so, most of the northern states subsidize the southern state. As the Commonwealth of Massachusetts get back from the Federal Government .62 cents on the dollar, while Tennessee, get $1.27
Or Louisiana get $1.74. It is distributed on need. I have no idea how the UK works.
Well, it is distributed based on need and how effective your own Senators and Representatives are with pork barrel projects.
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  #292  
Old 09-11-2014, 03:06 AM
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Republicans will howl, but if the Queen DOESN'T speak out, she may have no United Kingdom to reign over | Mail Online
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  #293  
Old 09-11-2014, 04:16 AM
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The title of that piece sounds to me like a badly concealed threat. There is NO way The Queen will come out and voice her opinion on the matter publicly.

I really can't say much on this matter but have been following it closely. My gut feeling is that it'll be the NO vote that wins.
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  #294  
Old 09-11-2014, 04:49 AM
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Her opinion is already a matter of public record and has been since 1977 so there is no need for her to say anything again now.
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  #295  
Old 09-11-2014, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by PrincessOfPeace View Post
Hard-pressed English taxpayers today see Scottish families enjoying free tuition in higher education (worth £9,000 a year), widespread exemptions from prescription charges and state-funded care for the elderly, and wonder why we don’t get the same benefits, even though we contribute to Scotland’s.
It does make me very angry that the idea of a United Kingdom is somewhat flawed when in some parts of the kingdom one can get free tuition, free prescriptions and state-funded care for the elderly, whereas in other parts of the kingdom this is not the case. Hardly united and hardly fair.

It is the same as voting in Westminster - Scottish MPs may vote on issues that affect England, yet purely Scottish issues are voted for in their own parliament.

Frankly, either you have the same benefits throughout the kingdoms for all the citizens or you may as well just let the kingdoms separate.

Today, I can't help feeling jealous of the Scots if they go independent and leave poor old England to the mercy of its own useless public spending policies. I'll probably feel differently tomorrow and the next day i'll feel something else until 18th September!
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  #296  
Old 09-11-2014, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by PrincessOfPeace View Post
The English — who subsidise Scotland to the tune of £17.6 billion a year according to the most recent Treasury figures — are not allowed a say, as if the Union were about Scotland alone.
The Scots receive somewhat more per capita from Westminster, compared with the English. But the revenues from the Scottish oil flow to Westminster and this can not be left out of the calculation...

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  #297  
Old 09-11-2014, 06:39 AM
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Is the referendum today or in a week?
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  #298  
Old 09-11-2014, 06:50 AM
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Is the referendum today or in a week?
Next week.
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  #299  
Old 09-11-2014, 08:02 AM
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The Royal Bank of Scotland announced today it will quit the country if voters chose independence in yet another hammer blow to Scottish separatists.

Now three banking giants, including RBS and Lloyds, say they will move to England if next Thursday’s referendum ends the 307-year Union.
The series of announcements by big firms admitting they would leave Scotland has put the No camp back in the lead in a new poll.

The Survation survey found 53 per cent of Scots would say No in next week’s referendum on independence, with the Yes camp on 47 per cent. One in ten are yet to decide.

John Lewis and Waitrose caused further damage to the Yes campaign today after it said shoppers in Scotland are likely to face higher prices if the country votes in favour of independence, days after B&Q gave the same warning.

And yesterday BP and Shell also came out against independence and Alex Salmond was accused of lying about oil reserves on what was being dubbed the First Minister's Black Wednesday
Now the Union strikes back: Poll puts No campaign in the lead as Scottish separatists suffer a series of hammer blows on Salmond's Black Wednesday | Mail Online
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  #300  
Old 09-11-2014, 08:35 AM
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The Scots receive somewhat more per capita from Westminster, compared with the English. But the revenues from the Scottish oil flow to Westminster and this can not be left out of the calculation...

And now we get to the heart of the matter; Scottish oil money. But wasn't it the U.K who paid for the drilling platforms, etc, etc, that made the excavation possible?
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