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  #261  
Old 09-09-2014, 05:09 PM
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A colleague today raised the point that everyone in the UK should have a vote on this matter as it effects the whole country, not just Scotland.


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  #262  
Old 09-09-2014, 05:15 PM
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George has spoken...
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  #263  
Old 09-09-2014, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Her views on this subject were made public in 1977 in her Jubilee speech when she referred to having been crowned as The Queen of the United Kingdom etc and how much they had achieved together.

She doesn't need to reiterate those views now.

I stand corrected. I was unaware that she had made such a speech and was misreading what wyevale had said.

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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I agree Iluvbertie,and posted accordingly but Ish wasn't having it . That speech was her own work, and expressed perfectly her feelings on the union.

Is that really necessary?

You said that she'd made a speech in favour of the union some time ago in front of the Houses of Parliaments. I assumed, clearly wrongly, that you meant that she had made such a speech at the opening of Parliament, when the government writes her speech for her. Bertie very nicely corrected me, that the speech was in fact in the Jubilee celebrations, and her own words.

I wasn't not having what you said, I was misunderstanding what you'd said because you weren't really clear. There are many people on these forums who seem to operate under the impression of "well the Queen said this at the opening of Parliament so that must be her opinion" and your comments lead me to believe that that's what you were doing - strengthened in part because of all the articles lately about how upset the Queen is about the possibility of Scottish independence that have no sources.

I apologize for my assumptions.
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  #264  
Old 09-09-2014, 10:26 PM
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BBC News - Scottish independence: Queen 'won't interfere in Scots poll'
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  #265  
Old 09-09-2014, 10:48 PM
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I think I saw in a documentary once that the then Prime Minister was a bit put out by the political nature of the Queen's words during the Silver Jubilee speech at Westminster Hall. He couldn't do anything about it as it turned out a copy had been sent to him beforehand, but neither he, nor any of his staff, read it.
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  #266  
Old 09-10-2014, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
^Fully agree; the real issue seems to be that London is making all the choices, to the benefit of London and England, not Scotland.
Where did you pick up this little piece of nonsense? The nationalists' propaganda?

I'm from NI, so I suppose I'm one of those people who suffers from London just taking care of England at the expense of the rest of us? Except, I'm not. All the figures show Scotland (and NI and Wales too) receive more per head in government spending than England does. We each have our own regional parliaments, whereas England does not. English MPs cannot vote on Scottish, NI or Welsh education or health policies for example, yet Scots, NI and Welsh MPs CAN do for English policy.

The Scots are doing and have done very, very well out of the Union.
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  #267  
Old 09-10-2014, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I was talking to a Scottish business man today - own business and loves Scotland as does his wife and 3 children. I was shocked when he said that if the Yes vote wins, he's leaving. And economics is the reason.

Too few businesses and entrepreneurs to pay for the promises. He needs to secure the future for his children. So he's coming to England. He is also a monarchist and says that the SNP are republicans - another reason to leave.
Interesting, cepe.

I was speaking yesterday at work with an 82-year-old Scottish lady and the discussion came round to the referendum. She's incredibly worried what a 'yes' vote means for her pension. She's terrified as she doesn't know what currency it's going to be in, if its value will stay the same or whether it's guaranteed into the future without the strength of the Bank of England standing behind everything. I really felt for her.
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  #268  
Old 09-10-2014, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crm2317 View Post
A colleague today raised the point that everyone in the UK should have a vote on this matter as it effects the whole country, not just Scotland.


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That is not possible because then the Scots, who have to make a decision on Scotland's future are then totally outnumbered by the rest of the Union. It is the same as allowing Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia to decide on a future outside the Soviet Union but then only when the whole USSR can vote too...
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  #269  
Old 09-10-2014, 03:07 AM
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This decision though doesn't only affect Scotland but the entire union is going to be affected.

The sad thing is the way Scotland is being torn apart.

I have friends with family over there who are planning on leaving regardless of the vote due to the way their community is no longer a community. They have been vilified by former friends over their views and have been uninvited to two weddings in the past two weeks because of their opinions.
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  #270  
Old 09-10-2014, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That is not possible because then the Scots, who have to make a decision on Scotland's future are then totally outnumbered by the rest of the Union. It is the same as allowing Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia to decide on a future outside the Soviet Union but then only when the whole USSR can vote too...
Unless, of-course, the majority of the English, Welsh and Northern Irish were happy for Scotland to be out of the union anyway!
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  #271  
Old 09-10-2014, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
This decision though doesn't only affect Scotland but the entire union is going to be affected.

The sad thing is the way Scotland is being torn apart.

I have friends with family over there who are planning on leaving regardless of the vote due to the way their community is no longer a community. They have been vilified by former friends over their views and have been uninvited to two weddings in the past two weeks because of their opinions.
Don't worry. It is not from today over tomorrow that Scotland will become independent. When the YES-camp wins the Referendum, then negotiations will start with "Westminster" and things will be handed over in a prudent manner with respect for the outcome of the democratic process.

When Ireland became an independent country possibly the same tensions were there as well, between nationalists and unionists but -with the exception of Ulster- the Irish woke up in a new country and went on with their daily life. The bus still stops around the corner, there is still electricity coming out of that contact in the wall and your children are still expected in school class. It is just a new reality and people will adjust to it.

Who would ever have thought that countries as Germany or France would give up the Deutsche Mark or the Franc Français? On 1 January 2002 all ATM's in the whole of the Eurozone started to distribute Euros instead of Guilders, Pesetas, Liras, etc. People simply started to use these currencies and today, the 10th of August 2014, still around 400 million people use this currency every day. They get their pensions in Euros, they calculate in Euros and buy houses and cars with Euros. Life simply goes on. There is no alternative anyway when reality is there.
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  #272  
Old 09-10-2014, 04:08 AM
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Apology accepted Ish,
and i'm sorry too, that my point wasn't clearer !
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  #273  
Old 09-10-2014, 04:22 AM
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[ The sad thing is the way Scotland is being torn apart.]

This is what sadly happens with civil war, which altho 'peacefully'..is exactly what is happening to our country.
I have friends in Scotland who are also planning to move south [regardless of the outcome], as they too have not liked the emnity and division revealed in their community, and believe that it will only harden at time goes on.
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  #274  
Old 09-10-2014, 09:47 AM
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I would be a NO-voter (and I think the majority of the Scots too) when it means loosing the Queen. Since the monarchy is to stay, whatever the outcome, from a royalist point of view the 'danger' is out of the debate. Of course there are many more topics to discuss but as this is a Royal Forum, I try to look on that aspect only. Queen Elizabeth will continue with the present situation or she will face a new situation with another title added to her looooong list.
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  #275  
Old 09-10-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
The campaign for Scottish independence suffered a double blow today after two major businesses warned against the dangers of separation.
Scottish financial giant Standard Life revealed it was putting in place plans to move parts of its business to England to protect itself against independence.
It came as Britain’s biggest fuel company BP warned against voting ‘Yes’ next week. It released a statement saying the prospects for North Sea oil were best served by the UK.
Standard Life chief David Nish said his firm was preparing to move big chunks of his company to England in the event of a 'Yes' to independence vote
The statements will be highlighted by the increasingly-concerned ‘No’ campaign amid a surge in support for independence.
Standard Life boss David Nish released a statement to investors highlighting the ‘constitutional uncertainly’ in the 18 months after independence.
He said the company would ‘take whatever action is required to protect our customers' interests’ by moving huge chunks of its business south of the border.
Double blow for Salmond as Scottish finance giant Standard Life reveals plan to move to England as BP rubbishes SNP's North Sea oil claims and calls for 'No' vote | Mail Online
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  #276  
Old 09-10-2014, 01:02 PM
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Scottish referendum: the men who will be consulted on whether the Queen should speak out - Telegraph
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  #277  
Old 09-10-2014, 01:22 PM
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From what I read in the online comments in the Daily Mail, The Telegraph, The Guardian and the Independent (all four very much in the NO-camp) I sense that the more "Westminster" rams on the Scots, the more desperate cries the establishment and multinationals utter, it is almost as if the lights will go out and the trains will stand still, the more determined the YES-camp seems to become. Instead of painting a positive future for an Union together (which is difficult because the Scots have the Union NOW and are not happy), the NO-camp is more and more on the scaremongering route. I doubt if this is the wisest choice. I wish the Scots wisdom and good luck.

Du moment the Scottish Government lowers the corporate taxes, it remains to see what companies as Standard Life will do...

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  #278  
Old 09-10-2014, 01:25 PM
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New poll shows the no side on 53%.
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  #279  
Old 09-10-2014, 01:41 PM
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Du moment the Scottish Government lowers the corporate taxes, it remains to see what companies as Standard Life will do..
Economic 'reducto sd absurdam' then... If [tragically] it comes to it. England could reduce the business environment in Scotland to ashes.. [which is one tenth of its size].

Just 2 million [of 5] adult Scots work, and the rest [the old, the young and the sick] need to be supported, and if business leaves for a lower taxed neighbour [ which England can afford to be], the consequences would be dire for employment in an 'independant' Scotland.

It is unpalatable, but the voters need to be made aware of that possibility, rather than just be fed 'hearts and flowers in Alec Salmonds Panglossian dream world.
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  #280  
Old 09-10-2014, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
From what I read in the online comments in the Daily Mail, The Telegraph, The Guardian and the Independent (all four very much in the NO-camp) I sense that the more "Westminster" rams on the Scots, the more desperate cries the establishment and multinationals utter, it is almost as if the lights will go out and the trains will stand still, the more determined the YES-camp seems to become. Instead of painting a positive future for an Union together (which is difficult because the Scots have the Union NOW and are not happy), the NO-camp is more and more on the scaremongering route. I doubt if this is the wisest choice. I wish the Scots wisdom and good luck.

Du moment the Scottish Government lowers the corporate taxes, it remains to see what companies as Standard Life will do...

Standard Life have told their shareholders that they have set up English compnaies so that in the case of a Yes vote, they will transfer the funds belonging to English customers to those companies. The Bank of England will guarantee those funds. The Bank of England has stated quite clearly and on more than one occasion that independence means that the BoE will not support a "foreign government" (to do otherwise would be incompatible). This also means that they will not guarantee Scottish funds. This is the reason people are already moving their money out.

I know you think this is all part of the general smoke and mirrors that surround these issues but actually informing shareholders in writing makes it v real to me.
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