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  #221  
Old 09-08-2014, 10:03 PM
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We cannot tell if yesterday’s announcement from Kensington Palace will make a jot of difference to the voting intentions of the Scottish people next week.
But it must surely have lifted spirits at Balmoral after a difficult weekend in which the Queen has found herself dragged into an independence debate which she had been studiously avoiding.
Precisely one year from now, the cameras will be circling Balmoral for an even greater royal milestone than the arrival of a baby. For it is on September 9, 2015, that Queen Elizabeth II will smash Queen Victoria’s record to become the longest-reigning monarch in our history.
While the public may want to celebrate this achievement, there won’t be a squeak from the Queen herself. She is not competitive about such things.
Queen saw this coming when Blair began his meddling, by ROBERT HARDMAN* | Mail Online
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  #222  
Old 09-09-2014, 01:17 AM
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Her Majesty embodies the Unionist cause - Telegraph

Scottish independence: The Queen is urged to intervene - Telegraph
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  #223  
Old 09-09-2014, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
The EU has pronouced [in Olympian, magisterial terms] that there will be NO further accession counties accepted for membership until 2025... To allow 'intergration' to proceed smoothly [a pronouncement worthy of 'the BORG']. So good luck with that Scotland, Albania, Ukraine & Turkey...

The EU has had its hands burned badly by its 'Imperial overstetch' escapades in Kiev, and since the 25 existing members agree on [practically] nothing it is probably better for it to 'take stock', and do nothing precipitate .
The main difference of course is that Scotland and the Scots are already members of the EU, but then as part of an Union. That is a total different situation than aspiring memberstates as Serbia or Turkey knocking on EU's door. When a memberstate splits in two different entities, we can be 99,99% sure that the EU will wringle itself in all possible directions to find a workable solution.
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  #224  
Old 09-09-2014, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by carlota View Post
[....] I wonder if it becomes independent if it will become just like Australia or Canada which have the queen as head. I very much doubt about the house of Alba being invited to claim the Scotland throne!
The intention is when Scotland leaves the Union, Her Majesty will become head of state of an independent Scotland indeed. She will become Elizabeth, Queen of Scots. The Prince Charles, Duke of Rothesay, who also holds the Scottish titles Lord of the Isles as well Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, is the Number One in the line of succession. Followed by His Royal Highness Prince William, Earl of Strathearn.

It is not necessarily bad for the monarchy. As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, a more outspoken Scottish profile for the Windsors can actually work in their advantage. Now they are the embodiment of an Union. So to see, if we have to believe the polls, the Union governed by "Westminster" can not count on a great enthusiasm amongst the Scots. The Queen is the embodiment of that unpopular Union, of "Westminster Rule". A bit more Edinburgh and a bit less Westminster would not do harm for the monarchy in Scotland, so is my impression as an outsider.

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  #225  
Old 09-09-2014, 04:40 AM
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^Fully agree; the real issue seems to be that London is making all the choices, to the benefit of London and England, not Scotland.
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  #226  
Old 09-09-2014, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
^Fully agree; the real issue seems to be that London is making all the choices, to the benefit of London and England, not Scotland.
Not all decisions are made in Westminster. There are local parliaments in Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast that deal with Scottish, Welsh and N. Irish issues.


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  #227  
Old 09-09-2014, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The intention is when Scotland leaves the Union, Her Majesty will become head of state of an independent Scotland indeed. She will become Elizabeth, Queen of Scots. The Prince Charles, Duke of Rothesay, who also holds the Scottish titles Lord of the Isles as well Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, is the Number One in the line of succession. Followed by His Royal Highness Prince George, Earl of Strathearn.

It is not necessarily bad for the monarchy. As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, a more outspoken Scottish profile for the Windsors can actually work in their advantage. Now they are the embodiment of an Union. So to see, if we have to believe the polls, the Union governed by "Westminster" can not count on a great enthusiasm amongst the Scots. The Queen is the embodiment of that unpopular Union, of "Westminster Rule". A bit more Edinburgh and a bit less Westminster would not do harm for the monarchy in Scotland, so is my impression as an outsider.

You certainly know little about the SNP. There are alreadys MSPs in the party who are calling for a new referendum on abolishing the monarchy once Scotland becomes independent and the current Queen is deceased.

As for an independent Scotland joining the EU, it won't happen in the short run. Meanwhile, Scotland will have to set up its own currency and Central Bank as the UK will not share the pound and Scotland will not be eligible to join the Euro zone. Scotland will also have to pay for its own defense, welfare, etc, instead of relying on fiscal transfers from the Union. The moment that happens, Scots will realize how they were misled by Alex Salmond's promise of a utopian paradise and the many benefits they currently enjoy under the Union will finally become transparent.

In fact, from any sensible point of view, breaking up the UK is irrational, but, as history tells, nationalism always feeds on irrationality and passion.
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  #228  
Old 09-09-2014, 09:06 AM
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Absolutely spot on.... Mbruno
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  #229  
Old 09-09-2014, 09:28 AM
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I can not speak for the residents of Scotland who are eligible to vote. Prime Minister Cameron has given them the legal instrument of a democratic and binding referendum on the future of Scotland. If Mr Salmond and the SNP have a hidden desire for a Scottish Republic, it ultimately still are the Scots themselves answering the question whether they are willing to replace the King (Queen) of Scots by a president.

I think the independence actually will tie the Queen of Scots, the Duke of Rothesay and the Earl of Strathearn closer to the Scottish people than is the case now, with the royal family mainly associated with the Union. Mr Salmond and the SNP will not wage the Scottish monarchy as long as there is a sense of widespread goodwill and approval amongst the Scots to behold it.
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  #230  
Old 09-09-2014, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The main difference of course is that Scotland and the Scots are already members of the EU, but then as part of an Union. That is a total different situation than aspiring memberstates as Serbia or Turkey knocking on EU's door. When a memberstate splits in two different entities, we can be 99,99% sure that the EU will wringle itself in all possible directions to find a workable solution.
Well, Brussel allready said, that the Scots would have to reapply for membership, so I don't know how you come to your point.
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  #231  
Old 09-09-2014, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The intention is when Scotland leaves the Union, Her Majesty will become head of state of an independent Scotland indeed. She will become Elizabeth, Queen of Scots. The Prince Charles, Duke of Rothesay, who also holds the Scottish titles Lord of the Isles as well Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, is the Number One in the line of succession. Followed by His Royal Highness Prince William, Earl of Strathearn.

It is not necessarily bad for the monarchy. As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, a more outspoken Scottish profile for the Windsors can actually work in their advantage. Now they are the embodiment of an Union. So to see, if we have to believe the polls, the Union governed by "Westminster" can not count on a great enthusiasm amongst the Scots. The Queen is the embodiment of that unpopular Union, of "Westminster Rule". A bit more Edinburgh and a bit less Westminster would not do harm for the monarchy in Scotland, so is my impression as an outsider.

How do you feel about Paris rule?
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  #232  
Old 09-09-2014, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
You certainly know little about the SNP. There are alreadys MSPs in the party who are calling for a new referendum on abolishing the monarchy once Scotland becomes independent and the current Queen is deceased.

As for an independent Scotland joining the EU, it won't happen in the short run. Meanwhile, Scotland will have to set up its own currency and Central Bank as the UK will not share the pound and Scotland will not be eligible to join the Euro zone. Scotland will also have to pay for its own defense, welfare, etc, instead of relying on fiscal transfers from the Union. The moment that happens, Scots will realize how they were misled by Alex Salmond's promise of a utopian paradise and the many benefits they currently enjoy under the Union will finally become transparent.

In fact, from any sensible point of view, breaking up the UK is irrational, but, as history tells, nationalism always feeds on irrationality and passion.
Absolutely! They might come running back.
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  #233  
Old 09-09-2014, 11:27 AM
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Sharing the pound is ‘incompatible’ with independence, the Bank of England Governor Mark Carney said today.
Mr Carney said a separate Scotland could not forge a currency union with the rest of the UK because it needed a shared central bank and controls over public spending.
The Bank chief, speaking at the Trades Union Conference in Liverpool, warned that without these in place Scotland would risk a Eurozone-style crisis.
Mr Carney’s remarks are a significant intervention against the Scottish National Party’s plans for independence.
Sharing pound 'incompatible' with Scottish independence, Mark Carney warns | Mail Online
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  #234  
Old 09-09-2014, 11:38 AM
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Trust me, the banking crises has shown that under pressure everything is possible. Who would ever have thought that giant renowned banks would tumble down? Who would have thought that a company as General Motors would go bankrupt? Who would have thought that the European Central Bank would give the Eurozone injections of 500 billion or more? The latest years have shown that under pressure everything is possible. The examples of Czech Republic, Slovakia, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro, Macedonia, etc. have shown that states can split apart. The BRD and the DDR have also shown that states can merge again. Under pressure everything is possible. We can already witness it now, the total panic and disarray, the sudden stream of new promised powers, more devolution, just 10 days before the election. That is the proof: under pressure everything is possible. The pressure on Westminster is enormous now and look... Cameron, Miliband, Clegg: "Vote NO and we will do our utmost best to grant more powers to Scotland". Salmond: "Vote YES and you are boss in your own country". It is up to the Scots. I wish them wisdom and good happiness, whatever the outcome.
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  #235  
Old 09-09-2014, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by royalistbert View Post
How do you feel about Paris rule?
Trust me, "Paris" is loathed, Hollande is not for nothing the most unpopular President ever. The difference is however that, already under the absolutist monarchy, France is governed as a strong centralistic state: L'État, c'est moi! This is still the case at present. There are cultural differences in France but there is a strong sense of La France Profonde and unity is prevalent. This centralistic system, the State with its long tentacles interfering on the lowest levels, is very visible in France. The power of the State goes directly to the state schools, the public services, the municipalities and regions, even to companies as BNP Paribas, GDF Suez, Peugeot-Citroën, Air France-KLM, etc. you can see direct interference from "Paris". You can see it in French cities where the Mairie or Hôtel de Ville (municipal councils) are often in the shadow of the mighty Préfecture, never far away, which are the eyes and the ears of the almighty state. So, despite regional differences, there is little real separatism except maybe on the island Corse and in Pays Basque.

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  #236  
Old 09-09-2014, 12:00 PM
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Why would the remainder of the UK want to be 'the lender of last resort' for a Scotland that has turned its back on us ? Already the Scots are regarded here as profligate [as regards public spending] and as having a 'benefits culture'. Why would we want to pay for that, in a FOREIGN country ?

It would be a mistake to underestimate the sense of betrayal we feel [already], and that will be compounded if the vote is 'YES'. The English public will not be in the mood to facilitate an easy exit, and [consequently] neither will Westminsters politicans...
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  #237  
Old 09-09-2014, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The main difference of course is that Scotland and the Scots are already members of the EU, but then as part of an Union. That is a total different situation than aspiring memberstates as Serbia or Turkey knocking on EU's door. When a memberstate splits in two different entities, we can be 99,99% sure that the EU will wringle itself in all possible directions to find a workable solution.
As an independent Country, Scotland will have to apply to join the EU. Brussels has said this on numerous occasions. If Scotland wants to be independent of the UK, then it has to establish its own credibility in the world. No automatic Euro, no automatic membership of the EU, no pound sterling currency.

All of these mean that the financial future of Scotland is uncertain.
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  #238  
Old 09-09-2014, 12:32 PM
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As this is a Royal Forum, I focus on the royal part of this process: whatever the outcome, Queen Elizabeth will remain Queen of the United Kingdom and probably she will get another throne to sit on. That is it, in essence, for so far.

Whether the EU will allow Scotland to join or not, which currency the Scots will use after Independence Day: trust me, under pressure the impossible becomes possible. Scotland is a respected, modern and well-developed country with a high standard of living, a loyal member of NATO and there is no way that the EU will let the Scots go. I still expect a NO vote to win anyway, despite the shambles of the most amateuristic campaign I have seen (from the NO camp. The YES camp is almost in a comfy armchair now, witnessing the total disarray from the other side). From a royal viewpoint it does not matter very much, just more accent op Scottishness in case of a YES vote. It is very wise that Her Majesty has remained total impartial on this. Every word she utters on this matter will cause a debate. Parliamentarians calling her to speak out for the Union are short-sighted. What if the YES-camp wins and the Queen has publicly chosen the NO-camp? I am happy that Her Majesty has been wiser than some ill-advised MP's.
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  #239  
Old 09-09-2014, 12:56 PM
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The Queen 'will be proud' to be the head of state for an independent Scotland, Alex Salmond claimed today.
The First Minister said he had an audience at Balmoral Castle two weeks ago but would not reveal what was discussed.

Speaking in Edinburgh today he dismissed press reports that the Queen is ‘concerned’ about the prospect of Scottish independence, adding: ‘I want the Queen as head of state, as Queen of Scots of an independent Scotland as her ancestors were.

‘I think Her Majesty the Queen, who has seen so many events in the course of her long reign, will be proud to be Queen of Scots, and indeed we would be proud to have her as monarch of this land.’

It came after Prince William urged voters to concentrate on important 'domestic news' following yesterday's revelation that his wife, the Duchess of Cambridge, was pregnant
Alex Salmond dismisses claims The Queen is 'concerned' at surge in support for independence | Mail Online
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  #240  
Old 09-09-2014, 01:01 PM
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He will say ANYTHING to get the division he wants.

The Queens views on the Union were expressed some years ago in a speech to the assembled Houses of Parliament. She is far too wise to reiterate them now, but her views are a matter of public record.
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