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  #1101  
Old 10-23-2015, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by HisLegendaryMajest View Post
This might seem weird and i don't know if its been answered anywhere, but what happens if all the members of the Royal Family are present? Do husbands and wives just stand next to their partner and whoever was born into the family determines their placing in line?
You've pretty much nailed it on the head. Right now if all were in attendance, lets say at a formal dinner or a family wedding, the first to arrive and be seated would the from the lowest pecking order to the highest (except for in the case of a royal wedding where the Queen enters before the bridal party itself).

Highest to lowest and I recall right now would be:

Queen Elizabeth II and The Duke of Edinburgh
The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall
The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge (and children if they're in attendance)
Prince Harry
The Duke of York and his daughters
The Earl and Countess of Wessex (and children)
The Princess Royal and Tim Laurence
Extended family members (not sure of the ranking here)

It may not be the exact order in the private order of precedence but that's something we never really see. Basically what we see is the order of precedence as a familial grouping

I'm sure there are others that know far more than I do and can elaborate and/or correct where I'm wrong.
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  #1102  
Old 10-23-2015, 01:04 PM
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It's the Linleys and Chattos after Anne's family, then the Gloucesters and the Duke of Kent's , Prince Michael of Kent's and then Princess Alexandra's.


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  #1103  
Old 10-23-2015, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HisLegendaryMajest View Post
This might seem weird and i don't know if its been answered anywhere, but what happens if all the members of the Royal Family are present? Do husbands and wives just stand next to their partner and whoever was born into the family determines their placing in line?
The spouses share their husbands' rank.

The "Iron" precedence is when all 6 are attending:

The Sovereign
The Sovereign's Consort
The Heir
The Heir's consort
The eldest child of the Heir
The consort to the eldest child of the Heir

The rest of the family follows them in a mix of order of succession and anciennity.
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  #1104  
Old 10-23-2015, 02:40 PM
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There are various orders of precedence (OofP) for various functions.
There are private OofP and public OofP.

From the British Monachy website:

"Precedence determines the seniority of members of the Royal Family at official events and is influenced by a variety of laws, and by custom and tradition. Precedence among members of the Royal Family at private events is a matter for The Queen's discretion."

One good example where you might see this is at a commemorative church service.
Usually, the Royal Family proceeds into the church in reverse OofP.

Therefore, they would enter as follows:

The children of Princess Alexandra of Kent
Princess Alexandra
The children of Prince and Princess Michael of Kent
Prince and Princess Michael of Kent
The children of Duke and Duchess of Kent
The Duke and Duchess of Kent
The children of Duke and Duchess of Gloucester
The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester
The Children of Sarah Armstrong-Jones and Daniel Chatto
Sarah Armstrong-Jones and Daniel Chatto
The children of Lord and Lady Linley
Lord and Lady Linley
The children of The Princess Royal
The Princess Royal and Vice-Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence
The children of Earl and Countess of Wessex
The Earl and Countess of Wessex
The children of Duke of York
The Duke of York
Prince Henry of Wales
The Duck and Duchess of Cambridge
The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall
HM The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh

(I have not included everyone grand-kids etc. but I think you get the idea)

This also may change given that there is no longer a preference to the male line.

This order may also get mixed up if, for example, there was no lining-up of the family before they proceed to their seats. You may get the Kents and Gloucesters arriving together or Princess Alexandra arriving later - the more "minor" royals would not wait to take their seats if they were "out of order".

The "senior" royals do try to get it right as that is part of their job.

Even the Queen will "forgo" her precedence for weddings (where the bride comes in last) and often for funerals where the principal mourners are given preference.

PS when they leave the church by OofP from top down.
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  #1105  
Old 10-23-2015, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The "Iron" precedence is when all 6 are attending:

The Sovereign
The Sovereign's Consort
The Heir
The Heir's consort
The eldest child of the Heir
The consort to the eldest child of the Heir

The rest of the family follows them in a mix of order of succession and anciennity.
One caveat to this "Iron" precedence is if, for example The Prince of Wales takes precedence by statute (law) over The Duke of Edinburgh (for example) whose precedence was granted by and Order-in-Council.
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  #1106  
Old 10-23-2015, 02:55 PM
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Thanks Skippyboo - I have edited my list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post

It may not be the exact order in the private order of precedence but that's something we never really see. Basically what we see is the order of precedence as a familial grouping
Here is a great little clip showing an informal gathering of the Royal Family.

You will notice that everyone will acknowledge The Queen and Queen Elizabeth with a nod and a curtsy but everyone else is very informal.

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  #1107  
Old 10-23-2015, 03:35 PM
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A great video, thanks for posting. It was interesting to watch.
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  #1108  
Old 10-23-2015, 04:12 PM
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And i think IMO that sums up the Royal family's attitude, the Queen should be acknowledged and respected and maybe Philip as well but after that people aren't really going to worry about who curtsey's or bows to who at a family event where everyone is present and chatting to everyone (and to be fair could anyone keep up with who they should or should not curtsey to??)
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  #1109  
Old 10-23-2015, 04:49 PM
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You know...and I may have just forgotten...but I don't remember ever seeing 'the boys' making a nod to their father...is it done and I've just missed/forgotten it or has the PoW just not required it?


LaRae
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  #1110  
Old 10-23-2015, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
You know...and I may have just forgotten...but I don't remember ever seeing 'the boys' making a nod to their father...is it done and I've just missed/forgotten it or has the PoW just not required it?





LaRae

I don't think it's done. The family doesn't seem to really do it with anyone other than the Queen, DoE, and when she was alive the Queen Mother.

I would expect that to continue when Charles is King; people will bow/curtesy to him and Camilla, and the DoE if he's still alive, but not William or Kate. When William is King he and Kate will be bowed/curtseyed to (and likely Camilla if she's still alive), but by George.

I could be wrong, but I don't think we see other royals bow/curtesy to Victoria/Daniel, Haakon/Mette-Marie, Frederik/Mary, Alois/Sophie, or Guillaume//Stephanie, let alone the younger heir apparents.
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  #1111  
Old 10-23-2015, 10:40 PM
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If everybody had to bow/curtsy to each other, the Christmas family get together before the Queen goes to Sandringham would take forever.


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  #1112  
Old 10-23-2015, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
If everybody had to bow/curtsy to each other, the Christmas family get together before the Queen goes to Sandringham would take forever.


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Would love to see video of that speeded up and put to Benny Hill music.


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  #1113  
Old 10-23-2015, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce View Post
There are various orders of precedence (OofP) for various functions.
There are private OofP and public OofP.

From the British Monachy website:

"Precedence determines the seniority of members of the Royal Family at official events and is influenced by a variety of laws, and by custom and tradition. Precedence among members of the Royal Family at private events is a matter for The Queen's discretion."

One good example where you might see this is at a commemorative church service.
Usually, the Royal Family proceeds into the church in reverse OofP.

Therefore, they would enter as follows:

The children of Princess Alexandra of Kent
Princess Alexandra
The children of Prince and Princess Michael of Kent
Prince and Princess Michael of Kent
The children of Duke and Duchess of Kent
The Duke and Duchess of Kent
The children of Duke and Duchess of Gloucester
The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester
The Children of Sarah Armstrong-Jones and Daniel Chatto
Sarah Armstrong-Jones and Daniel Chatto
The children of Lord and Lady Linley
Lord and Lady Linley
The children of The Princess Royal
The Princess Royal and Vice-Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence
The children of Earl and Countess of Wessex
The Earl and Countess of Wessex
The children of Duke of York
The Duke of York
Prince Henry of Wales
The Duck and Duchess of Cambridge
The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall
HM The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh

(I have not included everyone grand-kids etc. but I think you get the idea)

This also may change given that there is no longer a preference to the male line.

This order may also get mixed up if, for example, there was no lining-up of the family before they proceed to their seats. You may get the Kents and Gloucesters arriving together or Princess Alexandra arriving later - the more "minor" royals would not wait to take their seats if they were "out of order".

The "senior" royals do try to get it right as that is part of their job.

Even the Queen will "forgo" her precedence for weddings (where the bride comes in last) and often for funerals where the principal mourners are given preference.

PS when they leave the church by OofP from top down.
One thing that confused me was at the Royal wedding when Zara, Peter and their other halves arrived with the Linley's and co. and not with Anne and Tim. I understand they are not HRH, however during the Diamond Jubilee service Louise arrived with her parents, whereas Zara and Peter arrived before their parents. It was perhaps due to the 6 of them not fitting in the car for both occasions but I am sure if precedence were being followed "properly" then another car should have been used for the Phillips/Tindalls?

Does Louise (and James when he comes) take their precedence from their parents? If so, when they turn 18 will they be like Zara and Peter and arrive with the non-titled royals?
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  #1114  
Old 10-23-2015, 11:51 PM
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Order of Precedence

For WK's wedding, most of the family were on the mini buses to the Abbey including Peter and Autumn, Zara and Mike, David, Serena and Charles and the Chattos. Andrew with his girls, Ed and Sophie, Anne and Tim came in a 3 car convoy, then Charles and Camilla and then Queen and Philip. Since Louise and Margarita were bridesmaids they came separately with the other little kids and Pippa.

Royal Wedding day probably maxed out the Royal mews car wise. There were 8 different Royal cars between using one for Bride , Groom, her mum and brother, his Royal aunts and uncles, grandparents and father and stepmother. Bea and Eugenie could go in Andrew's car but not the 4 from Anne's family

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  #1115  
Old 10-24-2015, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HisLegendaryMajest View Post
This might seem weird and i don't know if its been answered anywhere, but what happens if all the members of the Royal Family are present? Do husbands and wives just stand next to their partner and whoever was born into the family determines their placing in line?

This is what the order of precedence is for. If all the family is together, then automatically spouses stand together in their places in precedence.
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  #1116  
Old 10-24-2015, 02:51 AM
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who decides which members of the royal family attend foreign events such as other royal weddings? Does the Order of Precedence dictate what order people will get offered the position of representing the Queen and they decide if they want to go or pass on the opportunity?
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  #1117  
Old 10-24-2015, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HisLegendaryMajest View Post
who decides which members of the royal family attend foreign events such as other royal weddings? Does the Order of Precedence dictate what order people will get offered the position of representing the Queen and they decide if they want to go or pass on the opportunity?
At the Investiture of King Willem-Alexander in Amsterdam we saw a large group of "equals" and usually we would say: HIH comes before HRH. And then HRH comes before HSH. Inside these three "levels" the anciennity of the Reign is leading. This would lead to the following list:

HIH 1989
The Crown Prince of Japan (Naruhito)
The Crown Princess of Japan (Masako)

HRH 1946
The Crown Prince of Thailand (Maha Vajiralonkorn)
Princess Sirindhorn of Thailand (his sister)

HRH 1952
The Prince of Wales (Charles)
The Duchess of Cornwall (Camilla)

HRH 1972
The Crown Prince of Denmark (Frederik)
The Crown Princess of Denmark (Mary)

HRH 1973
The Crown Princess of Sweden (Victoria)
Prince Daniel of Sweden, Duke of Västergotland

HRH 1975
The Prince of Asturias (Felipe)
The Princess of Asturias (Letizia)

HRH 1989
The Crown Prince of Japan (Naruhito)
The Crown Princess of Japan (Masako)

HRH 1991
The Crown Prince of Norway (Haakon Magnus)
The Crown Princess of Norway (Mette-Marit)

HRH 1993
The Duke of Brabant (Philippe)
The Duchess of Brabant (Mathilde)

HRH 2000
The Hereditary Grand-Duke of Luxembourg (Guillaume)
The Hereditary Grand-Duchess of Luxembourg (Stéphanie)

HSH 1989
The Hereditary Prince of Liechtenstein (Aloïs)
The Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein (Sophie)

Etc. Etc. (HSH The Prince of Monaco ranked before them, HRH The Princess Lalla Salma of Morocco ranked before them too, like The Sheikha Mozah, etc.)

In reality we saw at the Investiture that more or less the Order of Precedence is followed but that the royals themselves handle it relaxed. Of course the Crown Prince of Thailand is near the Prince of Wales, but in Amsterdam it was visible they were relaxed whether Maha Vajiralongkorn has to walk before or after Charles. Also Felipe (1975) really could not care less if he came before or after Victoria (1973). So there was a relaxed attitude to it and it worked wonders. No rigid policy in Amsterdam. I have the idea, looking at the wedding of William and Catherine, that this rigidness has also left the British Court. Also there is some relaxed attitude as well.
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  #1118  
Old 10-24-2015, 07:06 AM
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When it is just the women, per QE2, doesn't the PR come after the queen, and ahead of the male line nieces?
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  #1119  
Old 10-24-2015, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
At the Investiture of King Willem-Alexander in Amsterdam we saw a large group of "equals" and usually we would say: HIH comes before HRH. And then HRH comes before HSH. Inside these three "levels" the anciennity of the Reign is leading. This would lead to the following list:

HIH 1989
The Crown Prince of Japan (Naruhito)
The Crown Princess of Japan (Masako)

HRH 1946
The Crown Prince of Thailand (Maha Vajiralonkorn)
Princess Sirindhorn of Thailand (his sister)

HRH 1952
The Prince of Wales (Charles)
The Duchess of Cornwall (Camilla)

HRH 1972
The Crown Prince of Denmark (Frederik)
The Crown Princess of Denmark (Mary)

HRH 1973
The Crown Princess of Sweden (Victoria)
Prince Daniel of Sweden, Duke of Västergotland

HRH 1975
The Prince of Asturias (Felipe)
The Princess of Asturias (Letizia)

HRH 1989
The Crown Prince of Japan (Naruhito)
The Crown Princess of Japan (Masako)

HRH 1991
The Crown Prince of Norway (Haakon Magnus)
The Crown Princess of Norway (Mette-Marit)

HRH 1993
The Duke of Brabant (Philippe)
The Duchess of Brabant (Mathilde)

HRH 2000
The Hereditary Grand-Duke of Luxembourg (Guillaume)
The Hereditary Grand-Duchess of Luxembourg (Stéphanie)

HSH 1989
The Hereditary Prince of Liechtenstein (Aloïs)
The Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein (Sophie)

Etc. Etc. (HSH The Prince of Monaco ranked before them, HRH The Princess Lalla Salma of Morocco ranked before them too, like The Sheikha Mozah, etc.)

In reality we saw at the Investiture that more or less the Order of Precedence is followed but that the royals themselves handle it relaxed. Of course the Crown Prince of Thailand is near the Prince of Wales, but in Amsterdam it was visible they were relaxed whether Maha Vajiralongkorn has to walk before or after Charles. Also Felipe (1975) really could not care less if he came before or after Victoria (1973). So there was a relaxed attitude to it and it worked wonders. No rigid policy in Amsterdam. I have the idea, looking at the wedding of William and Catherine, that this rigidness has also left the British Court. Also there is some relaxed attitude as well.
Wow thanks for that.

What i sort of meant was, say for example i'm a Crown Prince of a certain country, out of courtesy i have to invite most of the royal families in the world to attend. using the British Royal family as an example, the invitation goes to the Queen to attend as she is monarch, but due to her age she won't make the trip and sends someone to represent her, who gets chosen and how does the decision get made?
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  #1120  
Old 10-24-2015, 09:13 AM
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No doubt it may depend on the circumstances of the event, but I think you would be right. The Princess Royal would come before Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie for example as she is the daughter of the monarch (vs. granddaughter) and the girls elder. I think that the royal family are quite traditional and would follow good manners over anything else.
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