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  #381  
Old 01-31-2010, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post


Thank you for the explanation. Another change that will occur only if there is gender equality in inheriting the crown.

Not necessarily as it would have to be gender neutral for all titles for it to be automatic for the male to be raised in rank to that of his wife. It might even require additional legislation to automatically allow husbands to have equal status with their wives - so that no matter which partner holds the senior title the other automatically rises to that status.

e.g. say William has a daughter first and the law is changed to have that daughter automatically become the heiress apparent - there is still no given that her husband would automatically rise to equal rank.

Even in Sweden, with gender neutral succession there is no suggestion that Victoria's fiancee will be King Consort automatically. There is discussion about what title his future father-in-law will give him whereas if it was automatic then he would automatically become a Prince.
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  #382  
Old 01-31-2010, 12:50 PM
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Thank you for the explanation. Do you believe that limiting acquisition of royal titles to men has been a way of controlling the numbers of royals and having lines eventually end? This would ease the burden on civil lists.
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  #383  
Old 01-31-2010, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
Thank you for the explanation. Do you believe that limiting acquisition of royal titles to men has been a way of controlling the numbers of royals and having lines eventually end? This would ease the burden on civil lists.

In past centuries the princesses were usually married into other royal families and so their descendents would get royal status through their fathers, without losing their inheritance rights in Britain (unless, after 1701 they were raised as Roman Catholics).

George V restricted the number in 1917 by making it only through to grandchildren through the male line whereas in the past the greatgrandchildren had all been HH.

When he did that it didn't limit anyone who already was entitled to the Civil List as greatgrandchildren of a monarch wouldn't have reached adulthood and thus would still have been being supported by their father e.g. when Victoria died his own children were still under 10 and even when he becamse King they were still minors.

The Queen limited the Civil List to herself and Philip in 1992 so it really isn't an issue any more.

Queen Victoria's daughters all were paid Civil List payments as were other daughters of the monarch but their children would have received payments from their husband's family and the British raised grandchildren of Victoria weren't on the Civil List as far as I am able to ascertain regardless of the gender of the parent - except eventually the sons of Edward VII - Albert Victor and the future George V but then they were the future king.
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  #384  
Old 07-30-2010, 12:08 PM
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Maybe Prince Charles needs to learn he can't get everything he wants in life and stomp his foot like a petulant child. He is really lucky he got his way and married Camilla. Even though she is married to him, she does not morally deserve all the honors that have come her way. If Charles had married someone other than Camilla, I would have accepted that. He was divorced at the time of Diana's tragic death.

Oh by the way, Those of us who love Diana and who are loyal to her, STILL EXIST and we aren't going anywhere.
I am so sorry Diana died so young. And, I'm also sorry that you would withhold Camilla's claim to the Wales title. She, and whomever else was involved, was verrrry smart not to use "The Princess of Wales" title, even though she IS The Princess of Wales. Had Charles married Camilla after his divorce from Diana, and Diana was still living, there would legally be 2 Wales princesses: Camilla, THE Princess of Wales and Diana, Princess of Wales. Were I Camilla, I wouldn't want to be yet another Princess of Wales --- I, too, would petition to use Duchess of Cornwall. None of this has anything to do with Diana, anyway, IMO.
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  #385  
Old 07-30-2010, 01:00 PM
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It will be interesting to see if the Sovereign grants a peerage since this would be the first time in British history that a royal descendant would carry the family name "Windsor", which really doesn't exist since it was made up, instead of some dignity befitting descendants of the blood royal.

Mountbatten was made up too, so I don't think anyone really knows what the royal family's name is. George V was a Saxe-Coburg through his father, Edward VII, and a Glucksburg through Queen Alexandra. Edward VIII and George VI were essentially Saxe-Coburg and Hanovers. Elizabeth II is really only half-royal since the Queen Mother was a Scottish aristocrat, while Philip is essentially a Glucksburg and Hesse-Darmstadt.
Didn't The Princess Royal sign her second wedding document as "Anne Mountbatten-Windsor"? I think she did...
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  #386  
Old 07-30-2010, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
Didn't The Princess Royal sign her second wedding document as "Anne Mountbatten-Windsor"? I think she did...
Yes she did sign her name like that in 1992.
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  #387  
Old 07-30-2010, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tiaraprin View Post
Although I am an American, there are certain Royals I would curtsey to out of respect and the fact that I think they are good people. I would curtsey to Her Majesty, Prince William, Prince Harry, The Wessexes, The York Girls, The Gloucesters, the Duke and Duchess of Kent, and Princess Alexandra.

I would NEVER curtsey to Charles, Camilla, Prince Philip, Princess Michael, and The Duke of York.
My, your selectiveness is stunning! I'm an American, too, and I would curtsey to no one in my home country. However, I would probably bob a bit to HM The Queen if we had an encounter in any of the Commonwealth countries.
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  #388  
Old 07-30-2010, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade View Post
I wonder if truth be told any of these women or men in any of these royal families really give two cents about their rank. I guarantee you the younger generations could care less where they are listed officially or unofficially.
Someone mentioned that Zara Phillips wanted her "Princess" title (or is it style?!?!) All I know is that if I juxtapose myself into the BRF, I would want my title. Who wouldn't? It gets you in the finest schools, colleges and universities even if you can't cut the academics; keeps you on all the "A" lists, etc. Also, as I love jewelery, I'd have an authentic heraldic signet ring and maybe even a tiara.
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  #389  
Old 07-30-2010, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade View Post
I wonder if truth be told any of these women or men in any of these royal families really give two cents about their rank. I guarantee you the younger generations could care less where they are listed officially or unofficially.
I think especially William and Harry care about their titles, the relationship they have with their grandmother, they wouldn't know what their titles means.

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I would NEVER curtsey to Charles, Camilla, Prince Philip, Princess Michael, and The Duke of York.
Why would you not curtsey to these people? I can understand Camilla and MC.
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  #390  
Old 07-30-2010, 02:38 PM
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The better question is why would you courtsey to anyone? It is archaic and foolish and, if you are an American, unnecessary.
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  #391  
Old 07-30-2010, 02:41 PM
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Even if The Queen was stood in front of you, you would not bother curtseying?
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  #392  
Old 07-30-2010, 02:47 PM
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Even if The Queen was stood in front of you, you would not bother curtseying?
I am one American who would definitely curtsey to the Queen. I don't think I could stop myself from doing it if I tried! I got to shake Prince Charles' hand once in London but we were not formally introduced and it didn't occur to me to curtsey at the time.
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  #393  
Old 07-30-2010, 02:50 PM
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I know The Queen is not your Queen, but she is still a Queen. I would curtsey to all the members of the royal family, no matter how they got there.
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  #394  
Old 07-30-2010, 03:52 PM
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I have to backtrack a bit here. Intellectually, I say I wouldn't curtsey -- not being a subject. EMOTIONALLY, I'd probably drop to my knees and clutch the knees (like a widdle child) of any member of the immediate royal family, especially the Monarch.

I am American by birth, but it is English blood coursing through these veins.
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  #395  
Old 07-30-2010, 04:14 PM
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I know The Queen is not your Queen, but she is still a Queen. I would curtsey to all the members of the royal family, no matter how they got there.
Queen is a title made up to subjugate people, by men with large swords. There is nothing the queen does that is, particularly, special. She never invented a life giving vacine, doesn't spend her time in some God forsaken place caring for people, she really doesn't govern. She was born and lucked into great wealth and this title. She is a very nice woman, but, I, certainly, don't see why anyone, except her "subjects" would even consider bowing or curtseying. I know some of her subject don't care for it either.
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  #396  
Old 07-30-2010, 06:53 PM
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As a citizen of one of her realms I don't see any need for anyone to curtsy to her and most certainly wouldn't myself at all (and didn't do so when I met her on a walkabout but just chatted to her about why I was there). At that time I was still a monarchist which I am no longer. I see no reason to curtsy to anyone and simply won't do so.
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  #397  
Old 07-30-2010, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
Someone mentioned that Zara Phillips wanted her "Princess" title (or is it style?!?!) All I know is that if I juxtapose myself into the BRF, I would want my title. Who wouldn't? It gets you in the finest schools, colleges and universities even if you can't cut the academics; keeps you on all the "A" lists, etc. Also, as I love jewelery, I'd have an authentic heraldic signet ring and maybe even a tiara.

What 'princess' title?

Zara has never been eligible for that title as she can't get a title through her mother only her father and her father wasn't a prince to pass it on to her.

I have never heard that she wanted it but rather the opposite - that she and Peter are pleased they don't have any titles as it gives them a freedom they don't see their cousins having. Even yesterday she was reported as saying 'don't call me princess or a model' when she was unveiling her new clothing line.
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  #398  
Old 07-31-2010, 04:16 PM
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Princess Anne has stated many times that she and Mark both wanted their children to be commoners without the burden of royal rank or titles. The Queen offered on numerous occasions to create them Peers or even grant them royal styles via letters patent, all of which were declined.

As far as we know, neither Peter nor Zara has ever desired any title or royal style as adults.
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  #399  
Old 08-16-2010, 04:29 PM
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What position in the order of precedence had The Duke of Windsor?
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  #400  
Old 08-16-2010, 04:45 PM
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What position in the order of precedence had The Duke of Windsor?
At what point?
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