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  #21  
Old 07-20-2005, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowabelle
Perhaps I am wrong, but when Diana lost her HRH didn't she have to curtsy to the lesser royals like Princess Michael?

If so, it would seem that giving birth to a future monarch doesn't give a person precedence, apart from the marriage.
yes Diana lost titles HRH when she divorces from Prince Charles but Diana known as Diana,Princess of Wales or Princess of Wales in publics whatever what she really needs it.

and also sarah,duchess of york also lost HRH titles when she divorces from Prince Andrew in 1996 same years with Prince Charles and Princess Diana.

Prince Andrew and Sarah,Duchess of York separation in 1992 for years they plans divorces in 1996 they had custody of two girls.

Prince Charles and Princess Diana separation in 1992 and have no plans divorces they later HM Queen II urges to Prince Charles and Princess Diana for divorces and Princess Diana agrees to divorces its really rough! but the couples had two boys

Sara Boyce
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  #22  
Old 07-20-2005, 07:02 PM
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Camilla is not Princess of Wales!


Yes, she is. She just isn't using the title.
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  #23  
Old 07-20-2005, 07:04 PM
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It is a big deal to Charles.
It may not be; none of us know what he's really thinking. It's possible that this is a snub and he's beside himself with impotent fury; it's also possible that this is just the way things are done and he's perfectly happy about it.
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  #24  
Old 07-20-2005, 07:11 PM
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We do know what he is thinking. For one he had camilla wear her wedding dress on the balcony; he most likely will have her made queen if he becomes king; he married her in the first place cuz he wants her to sit next to him, etc.
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  #25  
Old 07-20-2005, 07:22 PM
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I think Charles is waiting for everybody to get used to Camilla being at his side. If Charles succeeds to the throne in 20 years or so, it might not be so difficult for people to accept Camilla as queen. (That's not my preference but he didn't ask me!)
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  #26  
Old 07-20-2005, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
We do know what he is thinking. For one he had camilla wear her wedding dress on the balcony; he most likely will have her made queen if he becomes king; he married her in the first place cuz he wants her to sit next to him, etc.
We don't know what he's thinking about this precedence business. A lot of people are assuming it's some sort of snub; it may well not be, and he may well be in agreement with the principle behind what the Queen did.
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  #27  
Old 07-20-2005, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowabelle
Perhaps I am wrong, but when Diana lost her HRH didn't she have to curtsy to the lesser royals like Princess Michael?

If so, it would seem that giving birth to a future monarch doesn't give a person precedence, apart from the marriage.
No, she did not. The Queen and the Palace made very clear at the time that Diana would remain a member of the royal family and be accorded the precedence she enjoyed during her marriage as the mother of Prince William.

And the royal family does not curtsey or bow to each other, regardless of their individual status. This is only extended to the Queen as Sovereign.

Diana's situation was unique and she was treated uniquely to the end of her life.
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  #28  
Old 07-20-2005, 09:54 PM
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So she would not have to bow to anyone except the Queen?
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  #29  
Old 07-20-2005, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth
It may not be; none of us know what he's really thinking. It's possible that this is a snub and he's beside himself with impotent fury; it's also possible that this is just the way things are done and he's perfectly happy about it.
I agree. It's hard to imagine why Prince Charles would be "furious" since this is the way these things are handled. I think people here care because they are still acting as if Diana passed away yesterday, instead of eight years ago.
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  #30  
Old 07-20-2005, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Reina
So she would not have to bow to anyone except the Queen?
Diana continued to curtsey to the Queen and the Queen Mother, just as she did throughout her marriage. But never did she curtsey to anyone else in the family, nor was it expected.
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  #31  
Old 07-20-2005, 10:06 PM
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No, she did not. The Queen and the Palace made very clear at the time that Diana would remain a member of the royal family and be accorded the precedence she enjoyed during her marriage as the mother of Prince William.
I think the confusion here has to do with a story in one of the many books about Diana that after her divorce most of the royal family cold-shouldered her but Princess Michael, as one royal outsider to another, made a big deal of being friendly with her, going so far as to assure Diana that even though she officially now had to curtsey to Princess Michael, she shouldn't think of actually ever doing so.

Who knows how much truth, if any, there is in that story, but it was definitely in one of the books or articles about Diana.
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  #32  
Old 07-20-2005, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
I think the confusion here has to do with a story in one of the many books about Diana that after her divorce most of the royal family cold-shouldered her but Princess Michael, as one royal outsider to another, made a big deal of being friendly with her, going so far as to assure Diana that even though she officially now had to curtsey to Princess Michael, she shouldn't think of actually ever doing so.

Who knows how much truth, if any, there is in that story, but it was definitely in one of the books or articles about Diana.
Yes, I believe Paul Burrell wrote something about this in his book about Diana. But, of course, there have been so many books written about Diana at this point, and even Burrell's was not accurate in many respects (as confirmed by people like Rosa Monckton who were close to the Princess to the day she died).

In any case, the point is Diana was not expected to curtsey and she did not. Regardless of her style or title, she was the mother of a future king and was treated accordingly after the divorce.
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  #33  
Old 07-20-2005, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ladybelline
I understand Camilla's place in the order of precedence now, but could anybody tell me, as James asked, why Lady Louise is a Lady and not a Princess, although being the child of of male Royal Prince? Her cousins are Princesses of York, so why isn't she referred as "Princess of Wessex"?
Ran across this in wikipedia online encyclopedia:
As a granddaughter of the Monarch in the male line, she would normally be styled Her Royal Highness Princess Louise of Wessex. However, upon her parents' marriage they decided that their children could be styled as Earl's children rather than Prince or Princess with the style Royal Highness. This was ostensibly so they could avoid the full burden of Royal titles and the responsiblity that comes with them. That this was ill-considered was reflected in the apparent subsequent change of policy, so that Lady Louise will be entitled to the styles of Princess and Royal Highness when she is an adult. No doubt this is a reflection of the desire to not set a precedent, to prevent Lady Louise from being seen as a "second-class" member of the Family, or as the off-spring of a morganic marriage. It is also an acknowledgement that the original rationale - that this would spare her the media attention which members of the Royal Family face - is flawed. Attention focuses on these individuals because they are related to the Queen, not because of any title they may or may not have.

The Lady Louise is eighth in line to the British throne.
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  #34  
Old 07-20-2005, 10:16 PM
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Get real. Most of us are not Diana fanatics. It is highly probable that PCharles is furious and wants (along with camilla) the top honors for his wife. Look at the way he handled himself at the wedding of the van-cutsems, the balcony scene where camilla wore her wedding dress, and this precedence issue. I think your assertion about us and Diana just proves how real the issue really is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
I agree. It's hard to imagine why Prince Charles would be "furious" since this is the way these things are handled. I think people here care because they are still acting as if Diana passed away yesterday, instead of eight years ago.
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  #35  
Old 07-20-2005, 10:37 PM
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Well, we'll have to see how things turn out. At the moment he's looking very relaxed and happy with life in general, so even if he is furious about the precedence thing, he has other compensations.
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  #36  
Old 07-20-2005, 10:56 PM
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well, i don't know why Charles or Camilla should be furious about the precedence thing. what does it mean, an order, what does it matter?? it is so unreal. imho, if i were them, i would be very happy that they can marry and get together after all these years, they might just want to relax and enjoy life as husband&wife rather than worry about sth. which practically has nothing important to do with their life. nevertheless, i may be wrong cuz royals seem to think things differently
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  #37  
Old 07-20-2005, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
Get real. Most of us are not Diana fanatics. It is highly probable that PCharles is furious and wants (along with camilla) the top honors for his wife. Look at the way he handled himself at the wedding of the van-cutsems, the balcony scene where camilla wore her wedding dress, and this precedence issue. I think your assertion about us and Diana just proves how real the issue really is.
Maybe Prince Charles needs to learn he can't get everything he wants in life and stomp his foot like a petulant child. He is really lucky he got his way and married Camilla. Even though she is married to him, she does not morally deserve all the honors that have come her way. If Charles had married someone other than Camilla, I would have accepted that. He was divorced at the time of Diana's tragic death.

Oh by the way, Those of us who love Diana and who are loyal to her, STILL EXIST and we aren't going anywhere.
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  #38  
Old 07-21-2005, 12:53 AM
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I don't see where Camilla is any more morally at fault than Charles, to be honest.
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  #39  
Old 07-21-2005, 04:11 AM
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Attempted Summary

Branchg has made a valiant attempt to clarify this Order of Precedence business. If I can summarise...

There are TWO "Orders of Precedence":

Court Precedence - The Queen's list. Think of this as relating to the family within the Palace walls (this is where Camilla is outranked by [some] Princesses of The Blood);

Official Precedence - The Government list of where the members of the Royal Family, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Prime Minister, Goverrnment Ministers, Dukes, Judges, Marquesses' younger sons, Earls, Barons, younger sons of the younger sons of Peers, etc etc etc fit within the offical British Royal/ political/ social etc heirarchy. Here Camilla takes the precedence of her husband, the Prince of Wales, who ranks after the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh.

Virtually everyone in an official position gets his or her place. For example, 'Masters in Lunacy' rank after 'Serjeants at Law', but before 'Companions and Commanders'.

Precedence is formed by statute, patent, or usage, but the chief regulations regarding the order of precedence were settled by Parliament in the reign of Henry VIII.
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  #40  
Old 07-21-2005, 11:57 AM
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Somehow "Masters in Lunacy" seems a strangely appropriate title for some of this arcane stuff...
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