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  #101  
Old 04-06-2014, 10:09 PM
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Is the term Junior Royals an equivalent to the term Minor Royals?
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  #102  
Old 04-07-2014, 06:07 AM
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I think junior royals refers to members of the family under the age of 18 while minor royals refers to those further down the list of succession or less closely related to the Queen.

Exactly where minor royals begin depends on your opinion. I would categorize the Queens husband and children as senior royals along with William, Harry & George. The other grandchildren and cousins I would class as minor. I'm sure there will be others who would have a different definition.
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  #103  
Old 04-07-2014, 04:26 PM
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Peter Phillips is the grandson of Queen Elizabeth II.
His maternal uncles {Charles, Andrew, and Edward} and their children are in line to the throne before Peter and his mother, The Princess Royal. I know that Peter is not a Royal.
However, is Peter considered a Senior Royal or a Minor Royal?


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  #104  
Old 04-07-2014, 04:47 PM
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The answer is in the question.

Peter is not considered to be a Senior Royal or a Minor Royal because he is not a Royal.

The differences between Senior and Minor/Junior Royals tend to depend on relationship to the monarch, position in the line of succession, and duties performed. People considered to be Senior Royals are the monarch's children and/or the direct line, while Minor Royals are the grandchildren and cousins of the monarch. Junior Royals tends to be another term for Minor Royals, but I think the term tends to be used more for younger royals instead of older ones.

The Queen, DoE, Charles, and Camilla are always considered to be Senior. Anne, Andrew, Edward, Sophie, William, Catherine, and Harry are all sometimes considered to be Senior and sometimes considered to be Minor. The Kents, Gloucesters, York sisters, and George are all Minor.

William, Catherine, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, and George all also seem to sometimes get called Junior, in my opinion because of their younger age and lesser duties.
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  #105  
Old 04-07-2014, 05:08 PM
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There is no formal definition of the British Royal Family (BRF) but that the monarch of the day sets-out who they consider to be “on the list”. For example, The BRF in Victoria’s time was much larger than it is today.

From what I understand, there are currently 52 members of the BRF of which 20 enjoy the style of Royal Highness. Those enjoying the style of HRH are considered “senior” members and those without “junior” members. The term “minor royals” should equate to junior royals but various terms are used by various sources.

As well, one must be careful not to confuse or follow the line of succession and/or the various orders of precedence which have different criteria than those for membership in the BRF.



There are a couple of conventions or guideline however that currently define membership of the BRF. Those people considered members of the BRF include:
  • A sovereign and their spouse
  • The children of a sovereign and their spouses
  • The grand-children of a sovereign in the male line and their spouses
  • The great-grant children of a sovereign in the male line and their spouses
  • Children of princesses who have married non-royal British subjects
I have made a list which is all encompassing but eliminates (crossed off) those who are not considered members of the BRF because they follow from the female line of a sovereign – unfortunately I accumulate only 50 Members – I must have done something wrong – maybe someone can point it out for me! Here goes……..

From Queen Elizabeth II’s line
Sovereign (and spouse)
Elizabeth and Philp
Children (and spouses)
Charles and Camilla
Anne and Tim
Andrew
Edward and Sophie
Grand -Children (and spouses)
William and Catherine
Henry (Harry)
Beatrice and Eugenie
Louise and James
Children of princesses (and spouses)
Peter and Autumn
Zara and Mike
Great - Grandchildren
George
Savannah and Isla (crossed off ) that is 21 so far
From George VI’s line
Children of princesses (and spouses)
David and Serena
Sarah and Daniel
Great - Grandchildren
Charles and Margarita (crossed off)
Samuel and Arthur (crossed off) Up to 25 now
From George V’s line
Grand -Children (and spouses)
Richard and Birgitte (Gloucester)
Edward and Katherine (Kent 1)
Alexandra (Kent 2)
Michael and Marie-Christine (Kent 3)
Children of princesses (and spouses)
Patricia (widow of George Lascelles, Earl of Harewood)
Great - Grandchildren
Alexander and Claire (Gloucester)
Davina and Gary (Gloucester)
Rose and George (Gloucester)
George and Sylvana (Kent 1)
Helen and Timothy (Kent 1)
Nicholas and Paola (Kent 1)
James and Julia (Kent 2) (crossed off)
Marina (Kent 2) (crossed off)
Frederick and Sophie (Kent 3)
Gabriella (Kent 3) now at 48
From Edward VII’s line
Children of princesses (and spouses)
James, 3rd Duke of Fife
(son of HRH Pns Maud of Fife)
From Queen Victoria’s line
Children of princesses (and spouses)
Flora, Lady Saltoun Total of 50
(wife of Alexander Ramsay of Mar – son of HRH Pns Patricia of Connaught)
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  #106  
Old 04-07-2014, 05:49 PM
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I have never seen anything that suggests that the great-grandchildren or the female-line grandchildren are a part of the BRF. They are certainly family of the BRF, but not actually a part of it.

The members of the BRF are those who are royal. They are those who hold royal styles and titles - the Majesties and Royal Hignesses.

That would be:

- The sovereign
- The legitimate children and male-line grandchildren of a sovereign
- The eldest son of the eldest son of the eldest son of the sovereign
- Any individuals who have had LPs creating them British Royals
- The wives of the men who meet the above criteria

As a result, the current BRF is as follows:

- HM The Queen, HRH The Duke of Edinburgh
- TRH The Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall
- TRH The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge
- HRH Prince George of Cambridge
- HRH Prince Harry of Wales
- HRH The Princess Royal
- HRH The Duke of York
- TRH Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie of York
- TRH The Earl and Countess of Wessex
- Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor and Lord Severn (who are entitled to, but do not use Royal titles or styles, but would normally be TRH Princess Louise and Prince James of Wessex)
- TRH The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester
- TRH The Duke and Duchess of Kent
- TRH Prince and Princess Michael of Kent
- HRH Princess Alexandra of Kent

Other individuals - the female-line grandchildren of a sovereign, the male-line great-grandchildren of a sovereign, the husbands of British royal women, and the ex-wives of British royal men, are collaterals of the family, but not actually members.
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  #107  
Old 04-07-2014, 06:45 PM
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An in-depth study of people related to HRH QEII is called genealogy. There are lots of resources available on and off the wed that have plowed this field.
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  #108  
Old 04-07-2014, 06:48 PM
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I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here, Admirer.
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  #109  
Old 04-07-2014, 10:03 PM
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I have read a few sources that have mentioned that Flora, Lady Saltoun is considered by HM as a member of the British Royal Family. Some say she is "last on the list". Therefore, I think that the list is more extensive than most people think.

I think that different souces have different interpretations and, since there is no published listing that I know of, it is all speculation. I also believe that the "list" changes from time to time at HM's pleasure.

However, I have to think that HM would consider her daughter's children and her sister's children part of the BRF (as she would defined it). I agree that they may not be "royal" either by choice or statute, but they are still part of her family and I have to think they are on her list - IMHO the only one that matters.
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  #110  
Old 04-07-2014, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce View Post
I have read a few sources that have mentioned that Flora, Lady Saltoun is considered by HM as a member of the British Royal Family. Some say she is "last on the list". Therefore, I think that the list is more extensive than most people think.

I think that different souces have different interpretations and, since there is no published listing that I know of, it is all speculation. I also believe that the "list" changes from time to time at HM's pleasure.

However, I have to think that HM would consider her daughter's children and her sister's children part of the BRF (as she would defined it). I agree that they may not be "royal" either by choice or statute, but they are still part of her family and I have to think they are on her list - IMHO the only one that matters.
I think that some refer to junior and senior royals when referring to the royals that work for "The Firm".

Peter Phillips is member of the British Royal Family as the Queen's grandchild but he is not royal himself nor does he represent the Queen working with the Firm. I think its similar to how the Queen has a separate order of precedence for both public and private occasions.
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  #111  
Old 04-15-2014, 12:35 AM
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Senior vs Junior
Major vs Minor
(Minor children are not taken into consideration and are not senior nor junior royals.)

Senior members:
The Queen & Prince Philip
Prince Charles & Camilla
Princess Anne (Tim?)
Prince Andrew

Sometimes Senior members:
Prince Edward & Sophie
Duke & Duchess of Gloucester
Duke of Kent
Princess Alexandra
Prince Michael & Marie

Junior members:
Prince William & Kate
Prince Harry
Princess Beatrice
Princess Eugenie

I think the Senior members are the ones that attend the State Dinners. When the President of Ireland visited, he met the Queen & Prince Philip, Prince Charles & Camilla and Prince Andrew. Princess Anne attended the State Dinner. The Duke & Duchess of Gloucester attended a banquet.
Prince Michael & Marie attended the concert.

Royal Family members:
I think the Queen considers all the people she invites to Christmas at Buckingham Palace as members of her family and as such, members of the royal family.

Do not know what Tim is considered. His status is unknown. I believe he has attended State Dinners. He is not an HRH but he is a member of the family but not a member of the Royal family. He is sort of like divorced wives except he is the current spouse of a female member of the RF.

I do not like the term minor royal, unless we are discussing a child.
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  #112  
Old 04-15-2014, 01:45 AM
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I would class as a Senior member any member of the family who can ever sign official documents and that means William and Harry who can both serve as Counsellors of State. William also carries out investitures so again that makes him now a senior member - he is afterall only 2 heart beats away from being King.

Senior to me:

The Queen
Charles
William
Harry
Andrew
Edward
Anne

and spouses

Junior:

All the rest.
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  #113  
Old 04-15-2014, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Senior vs Junior
Major vs Minor
(Minor children are not taken into consideration and are not senior nor junior royals.)

Senior members:
The Queen & Prince Philip
Prince Charles & Camilla
Princess Anne (Tim?)
Prince Andrew

Sometimes Senior members:
Prince Edward & Sophie
Duke & Duchess of Gloucester
Duke of Kent
Princess Alexandra
Prince Michael & Marie

Junior members:
Prince William & Kate
Prince Harry
Princess Beatrice
Princess Eugenie

I think the Senior members are the ones that attend the State Dinners. When the President of Ireland visited, he met the Queen & Prince Philip, Prince Charles & Camilla and Prince Andrew. Princess Anne attended the State Dinner. The Duke & Duchess of Gloucester attended a banquet.
Prince Michael & Marie attended the concert.

Royal Family members:
I think the Queen considers all the people she invites to Christmas at Buckingham Palace as members of her family and as such, members of the royal family.

Do not know what Tim is considered. His status is unknown. I believe he has attended State Dinners. He is not an HRH but he is a member of the family but not a member of the Royal family. He is sort of like divorced wives except he is the current spouse of a female member of the RF.

I do not like the term minor royal, unless we are discussing a child.
Sometimes the Gloucesters attend state banquets. It all just depends who is free. Edward and Sophie normally go but perhaps they werent free. Attending banquets doesnt show seniority I don't think. How can you think Edward's brother and sister are more senior than him when he is before his sister in precedence and succession....
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  #114  
Old 04-15-2014, 02:17 AM
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Molly - so true.

There was a State Luncheon last year that only Edward and Sophie attended along with The Queen and Philip.

Last week we saw William and Kate as the only royals at a State Reception and they will be attending another one this week in OZ.

This is also the case whenever couples travel overseas for official visits where they are representing The Queen and not a charity visit - State Receptions as part of the visit.
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  #115  
Old 04-15-2014, 02:36 AM
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Princess Anne might come after her brothers & their children in the line of succession but she almost always attend State Dinners.
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  #116  
Old 04-15-2014, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Princess Anne might come after her brothers & their children in the line of succession but she almost always attend State Dinners.

As do Andrew, Edward and Sophie. They generally do not attend unless they are busy doing other engagements. I don't understand what you are saying. Are you saying that Anne is more senior than her brothers?
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  #117  
Old 04-15-2014, 08:34 PM
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Yes, I think Anne is more senior than Edward and posssibly more senior than Andrew but definitely not more senior than Charles.
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  #118  
Old 04-16-2014, 06:08 AM
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Yes, I think Anne is more senior than Edward and posssibly more senior than Andrew but definitely not more senior than Charles.
Ok so how have you come to that conclusion? I'm just curious.
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  #119  
Old 04-16-2014, 08:38 AM
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Yes, I think Anne is more senior than Edward and posssibly more senior than Andrew but definitely not more senior than Charles.
I would surmise that all of the Queen's children are senior royals in their own way and there's really no competition between them. Charles is The Prince of Wales as the heir, Anne is the Princess Royal and both Andrew and Edward are Royal Dukes. Each of them do their best to work for and represent The Queen in their own way. Of course with male primogeniture, in precedence, the males precede the females but I would think as a family, they all care less about who outranks who and puts the focus on getting the jobs done.
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