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  #41  
Old 11-11-2007, 02:15 AM
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You're such a troublemaker, Roslyn. Always in the thick of the contentious threads............
Yep! That's me. Always spoiling for a fight!


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The Duchess of Gloucester provides a good example that this sort of marriage can work and that the non-royal partner can become royal, but some of the more senior young royals seem to be having problems in that regard.
I think that being Royal is something that can be learned by people with a suitable temperament and incentive. The born-Royals have it instilled into them from birth, well, at least until recently they have.

Being Royal is not magic, just a way of looking at the world and thinking about things. I think that to be successful an outsider would need a very strong sense of history and duty and responsibility and devotion to the institution of the Monarchy, and be willing to put the Monarchy and its demands before their own personal wishes. It certainly wouldn't be easy, but for the right sort of person it would be a marvellous opportunity.

I tend to think that William and Harry might not have had "being Royal" drummed into them as much as earlier generations, and maybe that is making things a lot harder for William.
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  #42  
Old 11-11-2007, 02:39 AM
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Earlier generations of royals are more inspiring in some way. I always find Prince Charles special because he tries everything he could and use his willpower to overcome his character flaws to meet people's expectations of the future king and do his duty. The younger generations needs to be observated for a longer time. My age is the same as Prince William and I don't think I can ever use him as a very inspired person because I find the monarchy itself has no long held an important position in people'e lives and their hearts. I am fond of individual royals but I am not going to support the monarchy system in the long term. I don't think the abolishement of any monarchy toward by peaceful transition will cause many pains with the consent of people. It is not really these royals I really needs but some qualified and committed people who are willing to be guardians of the country's historica traditions and good values and best interests I needed.

It's good to have royals to live in the palaces rather than leaving these palaces as cold musuems. The existence of royal history really attracts tourism which is fasinating. But the role of future monarchs may have to be re-adjusted IMO-the role of consititutional monarch seems to lose more and more people's interests. People have already have the cabinet, the shadow cabinet and the MPs to rule the country. What the real use of another set of ceremonial heardfigure? Probably for the future royals they have to demonstrative their differences from their peers to honour their special postion of understanding the country's history and good traditions and good interests.

Anyway I find it harder and harder for ordianry people to care much about the monarchy overall. Our lives will be never like theirs: they would not really understand our lives even they try to and we only can image their lives and analyse the infoirmation available to understand their situations. It is irrelevant most times unless when we are interested in them.Such a pity but I have to admit the reality.
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  #43  
Old 11-11-2007, 10:58 AM
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I would say the most prolific dream factory of Diana as a fairytale princess and Camilla the evil stepmother is Richard Kay's columns at the Daily Mail-a British publication not well known in the States.
I think Richard Kay panders to some, but as with the Di Express, the followers seem to be lower class housewives, who have very little else to do with their lives. If you read through the comments sections, the comments are getting fewer and fewer and whilst the Dirty Mail may not 'publish' many pro Camilla comments, the anti Camilla ones seem to come from the same small band.

I wasn't particularly talking about the media though, many people, IMO, here in the UK seem to have woken up to the fact that Diana was far from perfect and should now 'be remembered fondly', but allowed to RIP. The 'following' in the US seems to want to perpetuate the poor little princess myth.

I am very dissapointed with William and Harry's behaviour and especially Williams lack of oomph. For many in the UK, IMO, he was only thought wonderful because he was Diana's son and because her image has been tarnished people are looking at him as a prince and they are wondering if this is all the monarchy has to offer, are they worth our support.

Having said all that, I can well remember the bad press Charles always got about being boring, a party boy, a philanderer, not taking his role seriously, being too intense, etc, etc.

Are they inspiring, I'm afraid not. Are they still lovable, warts and all, well some of them!
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  #44  
Old 11-11-2007, 11:47 AM
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All that I really wanted to say in this thread was that I sympathize with the disillusionment by the younger royals, especially Prince William and Prince Harry, and the Yorks girls. At the same time, I think that these indignities will pass and the monarchy will endure, because it has always endured. The monarchy has responded to countless curve balls over the centuries, and as I said before, its people ebb and flow with the times, and it moves on. The monarchy is much bigger and stronger than both PW and PH combined.

That is all I ever meant here. British history and US history are equally meritorious.
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  #45  
Old 11-11-2007, 11:55 AM
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Well it's always endured because of natural deference. Now that's a rarity and I don't think the monarchy can weather any more storms.
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  #46  
Old 11-11-2007, 02:53 PM
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What do you mean by natural defense?
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  #47  
Old 11-11-2007, 02:55 PM
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Do the Royal Family need to inspire? Elspeth reminded me of a quote by George V in response to a critic that complained he was alien and uninspiring.

The King replied, "I may be uninspiring but I'll be damned if I am an alien"

George V obviously didn't think it was a bad thing for a monarch not to be uninspiring. But is it a bad thing today?

Is the occupational requirements for a royal family that they be inspiring?
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  #48  
Old 11-11-2007, 02:57 PM
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What do you mean by natural defense?
She means natural deference not natural defense, right, BeatrixFan?

As I understand it when people give you deference they give you a high place of honour and respect. I believe that before the British Royal Family could take deference for granted. Now they can't.
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  #49  
Old 11-11-2007, 03:02 PM
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She means natural deference not natural defense, right, BeatrixFan?
Whoops....read that too fast! I get it now!
I do agree that I don't automatically defer to anyone, just because of who they are......same thing goes with respect in general. I was always taught to respect your elders, but I decided a long time ago that I'm not going to respect someone just because they are older than me, I'll respect them (or not) depending on their actions, and what kind of person they are. I'll be polite to them, as I would be to anyone, but respect does not come automatically.

I can't quite decide if the lack of automatic deference is a "problem" in terms of the longevity of the RF......
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  #50  
Old 11-11-2007, 03:14 PM
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I think the deference issue is partly the BRF and the media’s fault. It all started with the documentary and barbecue in 1970s. I hope I’m remembering this correctly. Once they opened themselves up, the magic is gone and the intrusions into their private lives became a problem. It escalated with Charles and Diana, and we are still seeing the effect of this today. It will be interesting to see how they will overcome or evolve from these challenges in the coming years.
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  #51  
Old 11-11-2007, 03:48 PM
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You know, the British people have been around for hundreds and hundreds of years. They have endured some of the most horrendous conditions and events in human history. From their island nation has sprung multiple nations and a world power. I really think they need to give themselves a bit more credit, they do not need the Royal Family to inspire them or even to unite them, they already have within themselves everything that they need to continue to evolve and grow as a people and nation.
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  #52  
Old 11-11-2007, 04:10 PM
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You know, the British people have been around for hundreds and hundreds of years. They have endured some of the most horrendous conditions and events in human history. From their island nation has sprung multiple nations and a world power. I really think they need to give themselves a bit more credit, they do not need the Royal Family to inspire them or even to unite them, they already have within themselves everything that they need to continue to evolve and grow as a people and nation.
Actually we haven't. The British have only been around since the time of Union, before that it was the English, the Scots and the Welsh and before that it was various little collects of indiginous people slaughtered by the Vikings and the Normans etc. We have indeed endured horrendous times but what nation hasn't? Indeed, most horrendous events in other nations were caused by us. I agree that we don't need a Royal Family to inspire us but our past is not exactly built on something to be proud of. Gordon Brown has been speaking alot of this of late, talking about British identity etc. Nobody really knows what it is and therefore it follows that we need something to inspire nationalism. Whether thats an RF I don't know - it used to be but it seems they've lost their ability to inspire.
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  #53  
Old 11-11-2007, 04:43 PM
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Does HM's life long commitment to her people inspire me? Yes. Does the BRF's commitment to their public duties inspire me? Yes.

However, we live in a world where the press need to sell papers. SO, instead of publishing stories about HM's commitment or the family's public duties, for example, we get criticism, or a story on how the Princess Royal fell over during an engagement etc etc. I think it's shocking when their engagement numbers are published each year because so so many go unoticed, meaning people sometimes see them as lazy.

I think having a monarchy is a great thing. I mean, just think of the tourism it brings to the country, and the happinness it brings to some people. Also, people love tradition. For example, people disagreed when Edward and Sophie began their own businesses, largely as it was something that was different.
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  #54  
Old 11-11-2007, 04:55 PM
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Is it a commitment though? I mean, in reality, she's just lived a long time as Queen which PR wise can be painted as devotion. And again, the RF don't really have commitment to their public duties, they have to do them or they'll be thrown out so they do them.
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  #55  
Old 11-11-2007, 04:57 PM
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I've deleted all the derails into off-topic issues, as well as some of the personal comments being thrown around between participants. I've also moved a few posts to the Is the Monarchy Worth Keeping? thread. Please keep this thread on topic from now on and stay away from any more fights.

Thank you.

Elspeth

for the British Royals moderation team
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  #56  
Old 06-16-2008, 04:31 PM
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Seems like the Liechtensteins are the most isolated from everyone else.
The British Royals except for the Queen usually travel to weddings and funerals and for vacations. Prince Charles & Diana used to go to Spain every summer and it seems that other Royals always go to London for the various celebrations.
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  #57  
Old 06-16-2008, 10:31 PM
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Does anyone think that the British Royals are too isolated

When it comes to the European royals you usually see them at events together on many occasions getting alone great but when it comes to the British royals they hardly ever seem to mix with the other royals at all even when at official events (weddings, funerals). I was just wondering what everyone else thought on the matter.
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  #58  
Old 11-11-2008, 05:24 AM
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This is a good question and I think the answer is that the age difference between the British Royals and the European Royals is out of sinc by at least 10 or 20 years which may cause a social gap. Can you imagine the Prince of Wales at 60 years of age spending time with the younger heirs to the European thrones? Their interests and personalities are also very different and always have been. For example, Queen Margrethe 2 enjoys artistic past times whilst Queen Elizabeth 2 prefers horsey outdoors kind of things and being rather shy and impersonal QE2 would probably be embarrassed to show off her paintings (even if she knew how to paint). It's definately the age thing - QE2 is old fashined and a strict taskmaster to herself so letting her guard down and being a real person isn't her thing.
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  #59  
Old 11-11-2008, 11:15 PM
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When it comes to the European royals you usually see them at events together on many occasions getting alone great but when it comes to the British royals they hardly ever seem to mix with the other royals at all even when at official events (weddings, funerals). I was just wondering what everyone else thought on the matter.
I think the Japanese Royal Family are more isolated than the British Royal Family.
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  #60  
Old 11-11-2008, 11:18 PM
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Seems like the Liechtensteins are the most isolated from everyone else.
The British Royals except for the Queen usually travel to weddings and funerals and for vacations. Prince Charles & Diana used to go to Spain every summer and it seems that other Royals always go to London for the various celebrations.
The Queen do not travel overseas for funerals and weddings because The Queen adheres to the royal protocol strictly. Usually The Queen is represented to such events by other members of the royal family such as HRH Prince Philip, The Duke of Edinburgh who represented The Queen at the late Pope John Paul II's funeral at The Vatican.
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