The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #441  
Old 10-05-2014, 09:34 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere, United States
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by casualfan View Post
It's not that we should dismiss it, but the age in which a person lived does play a part in who they were. I guess I'm talking about putting together a more nuanced view of history.

But I definitely take your point about not unduly lionizing those of the past.
My thoughts exactly.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #442  
Old 10-05-2014, 09:48 PM
Crown_Prinz_Oberon's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
It was something I always wanted to mention for some reason.
Right? So have I.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #443  
Old 10-05-2014, 10:00 PM
ROYAL NORWAY's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: somewhere, United Kingdom, Norway
Posts: 1,875
The Queen Mother could be a difficult lady, but I don't believe in these ridiculous allegations put forward by Edward and Wallis.

The Queen Mother? That spiteful old soak dedicated herself to making our lives hell | Daily Mail Online

Quote:
'So you're planning to write a book about the Queen Mother,' said the Duke, exchanging a conspiratorial smile with his wife.
'Well, we shall have to be extremely careful what we say on that subject, won't we darling?'.
'Why is that, Sir?' I inquired innocently, although I was well aware of the reason.
The Duke, only months away from being diagnosed with inoperable throat cancer, was interrupted by a convulsive spasm of coughing.

He cleared his throat and added: 'I hope your book will tell the truth, instead of all that gush they dish out about her.
'Behind that great abundance of charm is a shrewd, scheming and extremely ruthless woman.'
He must have noticed my surprised reaction, for he quickly added, with his most charming smile: 'But, of course, you cannot quote that.'
The Duchess was less inhibited. 'The Duke would have loved to return to live in the land of his birth,' she said. 'But our way was blocked at every turn. We were never allowed to go back, and we never will be allowed. Not until the day we die. She will never permit it. When we are dead, perhaps she may at last forgive us'.
When I asked her the reason, the Duchess's right arm shot out as if she was taking aim with a gun and she said: 'Jealousy.'
'Jealousy of the Duke?' I wondered. 'No!' cried the Duchess, and for the first time her southern American origins were audible. 'Jealousy of me for having married him.'
The Duke, who appeared vaguely uncomfortable with this topic, murmured: 'Well, it's hard to explain. But, yes, Elizabeth (the Queen Mother) was rather fonder of me than she ought to have been. And after I married Wallis, her attitude towards me changed.
'My sister-in-law is an arch-intriguer, and she has dedicated herself to making life hell for both of us.'
The Duchess interjected: ' Somebody once told me that even Hitler was afraid of her.'
The exiled Duke and Duchess then proceeded to make a series of astonishing allegations against the Queen Mother. All of them were dramatically at odds with her image as the nation's favourite grandmother.
They were equally at odds with the effulgently glowing, reverent, completely sanitised and at times absurdly hagiographic contents of William Shawcross's official biography launched this week.
The Duke of Windsor insisted he possessed 'proof positive' that the Queen Mother had personally engineered the Duchess's exclusion from royal rank - an action now judged constitutionally illegal and known to historians as 'the Depriving Act'.
'It was her doing entirely,' said the Duke. 'It was not something my brother, the King, would ever have done, left to himself. But he deferred to her influence, just as her daughter does now.'
On the outbreak of war in 1939, the Windsors' enforced return to Britain was met with complete ostracism by the Royal Family, led by the Queen Mother's announcement that she would not meet the Duchess.
'What are we going to do about Mrs S?' she wrote to her mother-inlaw, Queen Mary, in a less than kind reference to the woman who had been her sister-in-law for more than two years.
'I personally do not wish to receive her,' she added implacably - making it clear the initiative was hers, and hers alone.
After the fall of France in 1940, when the Windsors fled Paris, they were briefly marooned in Lisbon, where it was reported to the Germans that 'the Duke and Duchess have less fear of the King, who was a complete nincompoop, than of the shrewd Queen, who was intriguing skilfully against the Duke and particularly against the Duchess'.
Referring to her husband's appointment as Governor of the Bahamas, the Duchess told me at our 1971 meeting: 'We were then offered this pathetic little job in a ghastly backwater. It was designed to get us out of the way, but she even tried to stop that.'
Indeed, the Queen wrote to the Colonial Secretary, Lord Lloyd, predicting that if the Duke became Governor, 'a very difficult situation will arise over his wife'.
The fact that the Duchess 'has three husbands alive (including her two exes - a U.S. navy pilot and a shipping executive), will not be pleasing to the good people of the Islands'. Britons were used to 'looking up to the King's representatives'.
Then she added a sentence that puts her utter loathing of Wallis Simpson beyond doubt: 'The Duchess of Windsor is looked upon as the lowest of the low.'
When the Windsors, despite the Queen's objections, arrived in Nassau, they were confronted by Foreign Office memos instructing the local ladies not to curtsy to the Duchess.
'That was her doing, of course,' said the Duke in 1971. 'Wherever we looked, we could see her hand against us.'
The Windsors' most astonishing claim concerned their visit to the United States in 1941.
The Queen Mother, they alleged, enlisted the help of Special Branch in London; of her brother, David (later Sir David) Bowes Lyon, who was posted to the British Embassy in Washington; of the British Ambassador, Lord Halifax; and of her friends, President Franklin D. Roosevelt and his wife Eleanor, to have them followed and spied on 24 hours a day by FBI agents.
__________________
The Queen is the most wonderful, forgiving, non judgmental person I know. Sarah Ferguson speaking in 2011.
Reply With Quote
  #444  
Old 10-05-2014, 11:09 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
we dont make comment about physical aspects of alive and kicking royals (too fat; too thin; teeth etc) as this is deemed too personal and not allowed on this forum.



Why can we do it once they are dead?

While I do see what you're saying here, I have to disagree. We have an entire sub forum on TRF dedicated to discussing the appearances of royals, and while the primary focus may be their clothes other aspects of their appearance does come up fairly frequently.

To me, it's no more inappropriate to comment on the Queen Mother's teeth than it is to comment on Catherine's hair.
Reply With Quote
  #445  
Old 10-06-2014, 12:27 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Top End, Australia
Posts: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
The Queen Mother could be a difficult lady, but I don't believe in these ridiculous allegations put forward by Edward and Wallis.

The Queen Mother? That spiteful old soak dedicated herself to making our lives hell | Daily Mail Online



Wow. What an uncompromisingly nasty piece. Thornton seems to have done what he criticised Shawcross for doing and that is writing a completely unbalanced portrait of his subject.




Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #446  
Old 10-06-2014, 09:21 PM
CyrilVladisla's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 2,857
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
The Queen Mother could be a difficult lady, but I don't believe in these ridiculous allegations put forward by Edward and Wallis.

The Queen Mother? That spiteful old soak dedicated herself to making our lives hell | Daily Mail Online
It is informative to learn that in excluding the Duchess from royal rank, Edward said it was his sister-in-law Elizabeth's doing entirely.
"It was not something my brother, the King would have ever done, left to himself."
In The Mad Monarchist, the Consort Profile stated:

Someone asked the Queen Mother what it was like to be a "Queen-Empress" because, with the independence of India, she was the last to hold such a title. She replied that, "It was very nice while it lasted".
A photograph of Queen Elizabeth in her crown was turned into a Christmas card during the Second World War and sent to men and women in the armed forces.
In Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, Lady Colin Campbell wrote:
Later on, once Elizabeth was a royal duchess and questions were raised as to who her godparents were, the family managed to remember two godmothers, though they never did sum up even one godfather, no matter how obscure or insignificant.

The godmothers were Claude's spinster sister, Lady Maude Bowes-Lyon and Cecilia's second cousin, Mrs. Arthur (Venetia) James.

Did Lady Elizabeth not have any godfathers?
Were there any more godmothers?
Reply With Quote
  #447  
Old 10-06-2014, 09:43 PM
Skippyboo's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 3,368
Don't forget that Queen Mary was still alive and she was quite the formable old bird who definitely would have input into non HRH matter. Plus Bertie was pissed off that David claimed he had no money and negotiated a large annual stipend from the King and then Bertie found out that David lied about his financial status.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
Reply With Quote
  #448  
Old 10-06-2014, 10:06 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: katonah, United States
Posts: 2,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
we dont make comment about physical aspects of alive and kicking royals (too fat; too thin; teeth etc) as this is deemed too personal and not allowed on this forum.

Why can we do it once they are dead?
Of COURSE we make comments on physical aspects of alive and kicking royals here, and they have been not deemed to personal or not allowed on this forum! Have you seen the duchess of york forum (too fat,etc), the diana forum (too thin) Margarethe (TEETH!!!!)
Reply With Quote
  #449  
Old 12-28-2014, 11:16 AM
ROYAL NORWAY's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: somewhere, United Kingdom, Norway
Posts: 1,875
Royals left furious after new book claims the Queen Mother was 'insane and inebriated' during final years of her life | Daily Mail Online

The Queen Mother was a difficult lady, but she was not insane. This is just nonsense.
__________________
The Queen is the most wonderful, forgiving, non judgmental person I know. Sarah Ferguson speaking in 2011.
Reply With Quote
  #450  
Old 12-28-2014, 01:39 PM
roseroyal's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Rose Bush, United States
Posts: 5,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
How awful! No wonder the family's upset! And I'm sure that Mr. Talon would be. Love the photo of them dancing. Prince Charles loved his Granny so much- he looked so happy. It is disgusting to make claims like that, but I'll probably read the book anyway, because I'm interested in the life of Mr. Talon.
__________________
One of my friends is fundraising for and hoping to adopt at least 2 of the 3 of these special needs orphans. Please give/ help now!
Go to Reece's Rainbow, and donate torwards the adoption of Holland, Starr, and Grace- Ann!
My avatar is my RH- that is the exact RH I have in my heart constantly!
Reply With Quote
  #451  
Old 12-28-2014, 04:18 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Williamsville, United States
Posts: 229
I thought 'Bertie' and the rest of his family didn't have anything to do with 'Edward-David' whatever his name was when he married 'that woman'. I also thought 'Bertie' told his brother he couldn't come back to England? At 'Lilibet's' Coronation, when Uncle David tried to get back into the Family, his mother , sister-in-law and niece told him he still couldn't be King, and he replied to this by calling them 'ice veined bitches'. is Lady Colin Campbell writing ANOTHER book about the Queen Mum?
Reply With Quote
  #452  
Old 12-28-2014, 04:37 PM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: An Iarmhí, Ireland
Posts: 15,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
I saw that on the front of the Daily Mail earlier and meant to come back and read it.
__________________
20th of December 1963,Birth of The Infanta Elena, Duchess of Lugo
Reply With Quote
  #453  
Old 12-28-2014, 04:59 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 11,483
I really don't see anything terrible in the DM article. The late Queen Mother was far from perfect, but I choose to remember her for her service to the Monarchy and the people.
__________________
"THE REAL POWER OF A MAN IS IN THE SIZE OF THE SMILE OF THE WOMAN SITTING NEXT TO HIM."

GENTLEMAN'S ESSENTIALS
Reply With Quote
  #454  
Old 12-28-2014, 06:02 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,007
It's terrible if the person has said things about the Queen Mother that simply aren't true. The Queen Mother was still very active through the 80s and well into the 90s. She was meeting people often and making conversation. If she were "ga-ga", it would have been picked up on at the time. I know that she liked to drink, but the writer takes it beyond that.
Reply With Quote
  #455  
Old 12-29-2014, 02:49 AM
Queen Camilla's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago, United States
Posts: 1,861
I am apt to believe her niece Margaret Rhodes than a novelist.

The Queen Mother continued to perform around 50 engagements during her 100 & 101st year of life. If she was insane and drunk she would not have been able to performed any of her royal duties.
Reply With Quote
  #456  
Old 12-29-2014, 07:33 AM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 6,054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Don't forget that Queen Mary was still alive and she was quite the formable old bird who definitely would have input into non HRH matter. Plus Bertie was pissed off that David claimed he had no money and negotiated a large annual stipend from the King and then Bertie found out that David lied about his financial status.
You made a brilliant point there. Queen Mary made the Queen Mother look like a powder puff by comparison. I would bet the house that Queen Mary was very vocal within the family. I am always astounded when people write about this era and it's controversy, they manage to overlook such an incredibly strong presence as Queen Mary. This, the women reputed to have said,
“You are a member of the British Royal Family: We are never tired and we all love hospitals.”
Or, just plain 'We live to serve and her son David did nothing that he didn't want to do.

So I imagine David's behavior shamed her. From his wild youth to the abdication and his dishonesty and greed, the relationship deteriorated and finally ended, the following excerpt from Wikipedia tells us not only did Q Mary and K George meet Wallis in 1935 but they refused to receive her ever again. It also says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
Edward became embittered against his mother, Queen Mary, writing to her in 1939: "[your last letter][N 3] destroy[ed] the last vestige of feeling I had left for you ... [and has] made further normal correspondence between us impossible."[71] In the early days of George VI's reign the Duke telephoned daily, importuning for money and urging that the Duchess be granted the style of Royal Highness, until the harassed king ordered that the calls not be put through.
To me it seems quite obvious that his Mother refused to receive Wallis and Elizabeth followed her lead. It also seems obvious that his brother was definitely not alienated from him because of Elizabeth. Bertie cut him off for pretty obvious reasons, not least because his loving big brother had right royally s****** him over financially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
It's terrible if the person has said things about the Queen Mother that simply aren't true. The Queen Mother was still very active through the 80s and well into the 90s. She was meeting people often and making conversation. If she were "ga-ga", it would have been picked up on at the time. I know that she liked to drink, but the writer takes it beyond that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
I am apt to believe her niece Margaret Rhodes than a novelist.

The Queen Mother continued to perform around 50 engagements during her 100 & 101st year of life. If she was insane and drunk she would not have been able to performed any of her royal duties.
Whilst I have no doubt whatsoever that the Queen Mother was no saint, putting her in her own time and place, she was a remarkable woman. The trend to trash talk about things we neither know nor can prove about her is a measure to the lack of integrity of the authors.

When it comes to the truth about her my money is definitely on Margaret Rhodes' version. But it makes so much better reading to write that she was a gin soaked drunk rather than an astute and witty woman. And we must remember that this author never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #457  
Old 01-17-2015, 07:21 PM
Skippyboo's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 3,368
That's why the Queen had to payoff her bank overdraft because she didn't really downsize her lifestyle after the King died.

Look at the Royals today, Charles is the only one with a large household personal staff outside of the Queen thanks to the income from the Duchy of Cornwall. The other royals don't have that private income source.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
Reply With Quote
  #458  
Old 01-17-2015, 11:16 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,223
The Queen Mother had a hazy idea of costs and thought of money as 'a boring subject'. I have no doubt that she would have been able to live within her means if she had given up both Castle Mey and her steeplechasing endeavours. She loved both of them so much, however, that living without them would have severely depressed her.

Shawcross comments that for nearly five decades, from Coronation year, she and the present Queen's shared passion for horseracing featured heavily in the letters to each other.

The Castle of Mey was a refuge for the Queen Mother and she constantly improved the house and gardens. In 1960 she bought the neighbouring Longoe Farm to pursue a growing interest in breeding Aberdeen Angus cattle and North country cheviot sheep.
Reply With Quote
  #459  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:58 AM
muriel's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London / Guildford, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,377
I still don't see her "overspending" as a problem. Her debts were regularly cleared off by the Queen and Prince Charles using their private wealth, as they were on her death. No outsider or the state suffered financially.


IMO, the reason she did not have enough cash to support her lifestyle is that a lot of her wealth was tied up in trusts that she had established for her grandchildren and great-grandchildren. In the circumstances, it is only fair that the Queen and Prince Charles help her out.
Reply With Quote
  #460  
Old 01-18-2015, 08:41 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,252
How Queen Mother really WAS the epitome of regal extravagance | Daily Mail Online

According to this article:
How else did she run up an overdraft of £7million with Coutts, which had been reduced, with the help of the Queen, to a mere £4million by the time the state of her parlous finances emerged in the spring of 1999?
Let us start with the basics — five homes, four of them permanently staffed, and a vast personal retinue of pages, butlers, gardeners, maids, footmen, housekeepers, equerries, chefs, dressers and chauffeurs (four of these) numbering around 80.
Half of them were at Clarence House (which, having lived at Buckingham Palace, she described as ‘horrid and little’), and the others were distributed among the Castle of Mey, Royal Lodge in Windsor Great Park and Birkhall on the Balmoral estate.
Her fifth home was an apartment at Walmer Castle in Kent, to which she was entitled as Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports and which, like the others, was permanently staffed (though not by her) even though she went there for just one weekend every year.


--

In the epilogue of Shawcross' approved biography he states that after the King's death in 52 "grief overwhelmed her" , "her anguish was profound. "Her spontaneous purchase of The Castle of Mey was a symptom of her grief"
He goes on to to state that though expensive to run "the only home she ever owned gave her and her friends much pleasure for the rest of her life".
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
queen elizabeth, queen elizabeth the queen mother, queen mother


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother Jewellery Josefine Royal Jewels 249 11-01-2016 01:51 PM
Queen Elizabeth as Monarch, Mother and Grandmother CasiraghiTrio Queen Elizabeth II and the Duke of Edinburgh 217 10-09-2016 04:00 AM
Queen Elizabeth and the Duke of Edinburgh Current Events 1: December 2002-April 2004 Mary Anne Current Events Archive 230 04-27-2004 12:10 PM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit best outfit september brunei royal family catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge dutch state visit e-mail fashion poll grand duke jean greece kate middleton king abdullah ii king carl gustaf king felipe king felipe vi king harald king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince bernhard prince charles princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathilde daytime fashion queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania australia november 2016 royal fashion september 2016 state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:51 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises