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  #341  
Old 12-31-2012, 05:58 PM
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Yeah, she was an elegant lady and served the King, UK and Empire so well.
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  #342  
Old 12-31-2012, 06:37 PM
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Bryan Forbes reveals the late Queen Mother’s 'wickedness’:
Bryan Forbes reveals the late Queen Mother’s 'wickedness’ - Telegraph
Ah to have the Queen Mum say of you or yours that "they are nice boys." That's proof many of us never quit looking at younger men! Bless her for that.
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  #343  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:09 PM
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Ah to have the Queen Mum say of you or yours that "they are nice boys." That's proof many of us never quit looking at younger men! Bless her for that.
Bless her indeed. I am turning 60 in two weeks, and I aspire to such wickedness.
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  #344  
Old 01-01-2013, 02:29 PM
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I always liked that photo of the QM primping before her mirror. One last look before showtime!
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  #345  
Old 01-01-2013, 02:37 PM
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I somehow never buy into this glorification of Queen Mother. I strongly beleive she could have spared many horrors to the Queen, had she taken an active role in the family, using her age and experience. Instead she was content with just smiling and waving, and 'ostriching' the real issues of the family..
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  #346  
Old 01-01-2013, 04:19 PM
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From what I've gathered and read, to me it seemed like the Queen Mum was very much involved with her family. She was especially close with Charles and its been said that he sought her counsel quite a bit. It is also believed that the Queen and her mother were very close, they at least kept in touch by telephone once a day. I think that if there was anyone in this world other than Philip that the Queen could turn to, it would have been her mother.

Now I really want to read Margaret Rhode's book "The Final Curtsey: A Royal Memoir by the Queen's Cousin" The excerpts I've read were so insightful.

I think what sticks out with me the most is her saying "Now I can look the East End in the eyes" or something along those lines after the palace was hit by bombs in WWII.
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  #347  
Old 01-01-2013, 04:35 PM
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I don't think The Queen Mother was a perfect person and I do think she and The Queen didn't really give the family enough tough love when it was really needed but I make no mistake in saying that the late Queen Mother was a very good Queen Consort to the late King and was dedicated to service and duty. I think she was a great example to the family and everyone when it came down to serving the country and it's people.
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  #348  
Old 01-02-2013, 10:06 AM
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Osipi, even I have read positive things only about QM. You just cannot expect anything negative about her, that too from her neice's book.
I always one thing. The Queen Mother knew both Diana and Charles right from childhood. She also had quite an idea that Diana had 'total' and Charles had near-dysfunctional parentage. Didnt she, with all her age and experience, understand at that time that they both cannot make each other happy..Still she kept quite and let Charles go in that direction, mainly to counter Mountbatten. When Queen and philip never had any idea how to deal with Charles, she, claiming to be a 'doting, loving, caring, whatever' granny, never gave him active counsel. Same thing happend with Princess Margaret. She even refused Queen Mary's suggestion that Elizabeth and Margaret should be sent to school..Leading Margaret to grow into a confused, aimless person.
She never gets scanned for all these. She is the luckiest person who gets immortal with just one or two quotes during WWII.
And one thing I seriously hate about her is the wat she kept alive the 'hatred' for Edward and Wallis..
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  #349  
Old 01-02-2013, 10:26 AM
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I've seen the ideas that you point out about the Queen Mother every so often on the boards and elsewhere and I do admit that they make sense looking back at things as they happened.

When QM was raising her daughters, it was a totally different era. Back then I think all royal children were educated at home. Elizabeth and Margaret also had their own Brownie troop at BP with children of the court etc participating. They did have a modicum of normalcy growing up but nothing like today's royal children that attend class with other children. From what I've gathered, George VI and QEQM had a very happy family life. Wasn't Charles the first royal child in the UK to go away to school? Or was it university?

With Charles' marriage, we don't know what advice the QM did or didn't give him but thinking on this, what grandmother feels in the position to tell a 30 year old man how to work a relatioship? I know at 30 I would have listened to my grandmother and let it go in one ear and out the other. It was one of those situations where it looked wonderful on paper but in reality, it was a recipe for disaster.

Just like any family, they have their faults and foibles and when history is written, a lot of the foibles tend to be swept under the proverbial rub. This is one reason I enjoy these forums. The more we read, discuss and share how we see a certain person, the more "real" they become in to us.

About David and Wallis, I totally agree. I've seen this kind of thing happen within my mother's family and it is really heartbreaking.
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  #350  
Old 01-02-2013, 11:20 AM
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She also had quite an idea that Diana had 'total' and Charles had near-dysfunctional parentage. Didnt she, with all her age and experience, understand at that time that they both cannot make each other happy..Still she kept quite and let Charles go in that direction, mainly to counter Mountbatten. When Queen and philip never had any idea how to deal with Charles, she, claiming to be a 'doting, loving, caring, whatever' granny, never gave him active counsel. Same thing happend with Princess Margaret. She even refused Queen Mary's suggestion that Elizabeth and Margaret should be sent to school..Leading Margaret to grow into a confused, aimless person.
None of this can be considered as truth, it's entirely debateable.

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She never gets scanned for all these. She is the luckiest person who gets immortal with just one or two quotes during WWII.
And one thing I seriously hate about her is the wat she kept alive the 'hatred' for Edward and Wallis..
She never gets 'scanned' whatever that means, because it's entirely a matter of opinion whether you believed those things ever happened. If you think the QM is lucky, then I would hate to see your definition of unlucky.

The way she kept the 'hatred' alive?! Seriously?! Wallis Simpson ruined that women's life, she had every right to be angry.
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  #351  
Old 01-02-2013, 11:33 AM
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Princesses were never sent to school at that time, and there were also security issues - the Second World War broke out when Princess Elizabeth was 13 and Princess Margaret 9.

Prince Charles was 32 when he married Diana - if he wasn't old enough to make up his own mind, then he certainly should've been! Maybe the Queen Mother could have given both of them more support later on, but it's not really a grandmother's problem to deal with her grandchildren's relationship problems, unless they actively seek her help.

The Queen Mother was also a wonderful support to her husband. They hadn't expected to become king and queen, it just got dumped on them, and then they had to cope with some of the most difficult circumstances in history - the Second World War, especially the Blitz.
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  #352  
Old 01-02-2013, 11:59 AM
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1. There has to be a transition at some point, right? She is the future Queen and it would have been a great precedent to send them to school, especially when Queen Mary wanted to send them. Princess Margaret later said in an interview that her life would have been far better and meaningful, had they gone to school. And what are you saying about security? You think Germans are more likely to bomb some boarding school in countryside, rather than BP? They would have been much safer in school. The QM reportedly said "All my sisters had governesses, and we all got good husbands" So she never came out of that way of thinking..Just thought that elegance and graciousness is enough for Royals to get over.

2.Charles thought that Diana will be a dutiful,calm,obedient wife. Diana thought Charles will spend his entire life cuddling her in bed. QM should have told him Diana being from a emotionally starved background, cannot cope up with pressures..

3.Every second child of a monarch will be prepared to become the King, until the first one has got a heir and a spare. In fact, every royal should be prepared for. That what they are raised and groomed in the extravagant way for, since birth. And its not like the King and Queen are taking decisions daily on troop movement, strategic attacks, geopolitical alignments and all..There is the Prime Minister and entire Cabinet to take that stress..
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  #353  
Old 01-02-2013, 11:59 AM
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This is why I said the late Queen Mother wasn't a perfect person.

I do believe Charles & Diana did love each other in the first years of their marriage. William & Harry was born out of that love. Although I do think The Queen Mother should've known with Camilla still hanging around at the time, trouble was just around the corner. Even Princess Margaret saw the trouble ahead. I just think things happened and all the major royal players lost control over that situation. It don't rest mainly on The Queen Mothers shoulders.

I guess it's natural for The Queen Mother to feel angry over The Kings early death but I never thought it was Wallis's fault and I do think the treatment Wallis received from the royals and the world was very much over the top. Wallis didn't do anything to anyone but fall in love.

I don't think The Queen was perfect but will continue to go down as one of Britians best royals.
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  #354  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:07 PM
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The way she kept the 'hatred' alive?! Seriously?! Wallis Simpson ruined that women's life, she had every right to be angry.
Lumutqueen, I think we already had an arguement about this before.
I seriously dont agree Wallis ruined her life. It is just destiny. If she wanted that carefree, stress-free life, she shouldnt have married a royal in the first place. Once she is married, she has to go on with him. And she did just that. If not for Wallis, Edward would have married another German divorcee..Then?
If not for abdication, she and her daughters would have passed on as minor royals in some countryside manor, and no one would have bothered to even care her smiles, waves and freckles.
The very spirit of monarchy is BY GRACE OF GOD.. Then she should have the common sense to ackowledge all the events as by the grace of God, not as some plan by aliens to send Wallis to destroy her life. And mind you, the King died ONLY and ONLY and ONLY because of his lifestyle. It has nothing to do with the so-called DUTY or abdication or anything..
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  #355  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:13 PM
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1. There has to be a transition at some point, right? She is the future Queen and it would have been a great precedent to send them to school, especially when Queen Mary wanted to send them. Princess Margaret later said in an interview that her life would have been far better and meaningful, had they gone to school. And what are you saying about security? You think Germans are more likely to bomb some boarding school in countryside, rather than BP? They would have been much safer in school. The QM reportedly said "All my sisters had governesses, and we all got good husbands" So she never came out of that way of thinking..Just thought that elegance and graciousness is enough for Royals to get over.
Your "quote" says everything about why QM didn't send her children to school. It wasn't 'done' in those days, and with hindsight i'm sure Princess Margaret would have loved to have gone to school, might have helped her out a little in life.

As for safety, they would have been much better with their parents at Windsor than at some boarding school, which would have been in London anyway. Not to mention the huge trauma of being away from their parents during WW2, thousands of families went through that and if two children could stay with their parents they should have.

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2.Charles thought that Diana will be a dutiful,calm,obedient wife. Diana thought Charles will spend his entire life cuddling her in bed. QM should have told him Diana being from a emotionally starved background, cannot cope up with pressures..
You're talking as if The Queen Mother was to blame for the whole Diana situation because she apparently didn't mention something she probably didn't even know about. Charles married Diana, Diana married Charles - where do you put The QM in that? Diana had massive unrealistic expectations of her marriage and future life and Charles didn't explain royal expectations clearly enough.

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3.Every second child of a monarch will be prepared to become the King, until the first one has got a heir and a spare. In fact, every royal should be prepared for. That what they are raised and groomed in the extravagant way for, since birth. And its not like the King and Queen are taking decisions daily on troop movement, strategic attacks, geopolitical alignments and all..There is the Prime Minister and entire Cabinet to take that stress..
I'm not sure what your point is here? Elizabeth and Margaret were both taught the same things, both "groomed" correctly until Elizabeth had Charles and then Anne (although it was even more secure when Andrew appeared). Your country is at war, your people are suffering, soldiers are fighting for their King, do you not think that comes with a severe amount of stress?

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Lumutqueen, I think we already had an arguement about this before.
I seriously dont agree Wallis ruined her life. It is just destiny. If she wanted that carefree, stress-free life, she shouldnt have married a royal in the first place. Once she is married, she has to go on with him. And she did just that. If not for Wallis, Edward would have married another German divorcee..Then?
If not for abdication, she and her daughters would have passed on as minor royals in some countryside manor, and no one would have bothered to even care her smiles, waves and freckles.
The very spirit of monarchy is BY GRACE OF GOD.. Then she should have the common sense to ackowledge all the events as by the grace of God, not as some plan by aliens to send Wallis to destroy her life. And mind you, the King died ONLY and ONLY and ONLY because of his lifestyle. It has nothing to do with the so-called DUTY or abdication or anything..
Not destiny, fate and all that BS. Give me a break.
She married the second in line to the throne, he was never going to be King unless his brother died. I never said she wanted a stress and carefree life.

You have no idea who Edward would have married nor do you know what The Duke and Duchess of York would have done if they hadn't have become King and Queen. But I'm pretty safe in saying they would have been "minor" royals who disappeared from royal life.

Sorry, but it was Wallis that came into Edward's life not God. You can't see God, but you could see Walllis.

Please, please don't write speculation as fact, it's really annoying. The King might have died because of his lifestyle, but you can be damn sure being King had something to do with his early death.
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  #356  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:32 PM
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I'm not sure what your point is here? Elizabeth and Margaret were both taught the same things, both "groomed" correctly until Elizabeth had Charles and then Anne (although it was even more secure when Andrew appeared)
Ok now I can make you understand, if you really wanna understand. The way Elizabeth and margaret were equally groomed, and Charles and Anne, even Edward and Bertie would have been equally groomed. So Bertie would have been prepared to become the King as much as Edward would have been. And till Edward married and had a heir and spare, Bertie should always be ready for the throne, understand? What if Edward died in a plane crash? Whom would she have blamed? The pilot? Or maybe his wife..No point blaming someone and living off peoples sympathy..
Elders should teach how to forgive and forget..Maybe she should learn from William and harry how to forgive and forget
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  #357  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:40 PM
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Not destiny, fate and all that BS. Give me a break.
She married the second in line to the throne, he was never going to be King unless his brother died.
Dont be that careless about destiny, fate and God..You see any royal proclamation or accession or coronation. Every monarch swears he is in this position by the will of God. Thats all. Otherwise who is he to reign opposed. Every King and Queen of England/GB/UK have reigned in the name of God.
Just use that simp;le logic, god wanted Bertie to be George VI, so he bacame so. If QM was so uncomfortable with that, she should have made him also abdicate, saying Oh no my husband was not prepared. He will die soon. I dont want all this. We ll go to countryside..Atleast when you talk about monarchy have some respect for fate and destiny, however practical we all are
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  #358  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:41 PM
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.Maybe she should learn from William and harry how to forgive and forget.
One thing I want to make absolutely clear, I can pretty much 99.9% guarantee that William and Henry will never forget or forgive anything to do with their mothers death, and it's horrible for you to even suggest such a thing. William and Henry are sensible enough to act for the press. Neither do I understand why you are comparing a mothers death to becoming Queen. I don't think Elizabeth lived off other peoples sympathy.

Yes David and Bertie were probably equally groomed, or not so equally if you tend to believe certain reports about their father's attitude. Until it happens, you expect it not to happen. A plane crash in which someone dies in cannot be helped, a divorced woman forcing you to give up your throne can be helped.

Elizabeth had every right to blame Wallis.
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  #359  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:51 PM
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Please, please don't write speculation as fact, it's really annoying. The King might have died because of his lifestyle, but you can be damn sure being King had something to do with his early death.
You are speculating more than I am, Lumutqueen. Let me tell you the difference between dying because of stress and smoking.
Stress: Mainly affects blood pressure, causes hypertension, damages heart, kidneys, may lead to stroke and causes ulcers and some cancers, and nowadays it also precipitates Diabetes. The King did not have any of these major problems.
Smoking: Mainly damages lungs and more than that, blood vessels. And these are the onlt two major problems the King had. He had severe atherosclerosis (blood vessels narrowed), and blood supply to limbs compromised, for which he underwent surgery.
Ok maybe his smoking itself increased due to stress, we ll give him benefit of doubt. But being a King and not handle the stress is his own problem. idont wanna say anything as I respect him. But it is mad to drag Wallis in between all these
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A plane crash in which someone dies in cannot be helped, a divorced woman forcing you to give up your throne can be helped.
Elizabeth had every right to blame Wallis.
No one forced him to give up the throne. He very clearly stated..
"I will not be able to discharge my duties as King and Emperor without the love and support of the woman I love"
He couldnt do.. He stepped down.
Bertie was next. He could do..Or he could also have stepped down.
Its as plain and simple as that..
He chose to do. Once you chose to become the King, you have to face all that comes in the package..
Heavens wouldnt have fallen if Bertie refused and stepped down.. Henry and Alice would have been a really perfect King and Queen, but then we d have missed QEII
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One thing I want to make absolutely clear, I can pretty much 99.9% guarantee that William and Henry will never forget or forgive anything to do with their mothers death, and it's horrible for you to even suggest such a thing.
Excuse me, I was not talkin about Diana's death. I am telling just the sorry state of marriage and all that fiasco. They have moved on that their Dad is happy with her. They would be waiting for their mum also to settle down, but sadly fate had other ways. Ok I wont go into that inflammatory topic.
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  #360  
Old 01-02-2013, 01:36 PM
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You are speculating more than I am, Lumutqueen...
I never said I wasn't speculating. But you write speculation as fact. I don't.

QM moved on, she was a fantastic Queen and helped guide her daughter to The Queen we see today. I have never seen The Queen Mother show any bitterness or hatred in public that she undoutedly felt in private. She did her duty as Queen when she as first probably didn't want to. You can't really forget or forgive Wallis, William and Henry are old enough to accept that divorce happens and people find love again. I'm not sure how to two relate really.

You make your own destiny, you make your own fate. If you let some higher power control your life be prepared to watch it crumble beneath you. You get one shot in life, use it wisely I say.
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