HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother (1900-2002)


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Elizabeth's parents already had 4 sons when Elizabeth was born so it wasn't like Downton Abbey where you need a male heir or you lost your estate to some third cousin.


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I have never heard anything more ridiculous than those fairy tales in Lady Colin Campbell's book. I refuse to buy any of her 'biographies'.

She asserted that the Duke and Duchess of Windsor called the Queen Mother 'Cookie' as some sort of sarcastic reference to her true mother being the Cook at Glamis. In fact it was in reference to Scots cooks baking a lot of bannocks, shortbread etc. which made people, including the Queen Mother, plump.

I do think the Queen Mother was very conservative politically. She supported Chamberlain and liked him personally. She wasn't so sure about Churchill at first.

She also held views on race that certainly wouldn't be acceptable today. However, they were much more common when Elizabeth was a young woman. She was always a great success when she went to various places like the West Indies on behalf of her daughter, so I suppose she was good at masking such views.

She was justly admired for her stance during the war and being a rock to her husband, who didn't have much self confidence.
 
:previous: Yep, she's been dead long enough for the muck-rakers to start the deconstruction of a true icon.

She was racist, cruel (even to her children), she was ambitious and vile to Wallis Simpson because she hated her, not because of the abdication, but because she wanted David for herself and married Bertie as a consolation prize . . . oh I forgot, she was also the illiegitimate daughter of the Bowes Lyons cook according to Lady Colin Campbell, or Welsh maid working in Scotland, according to Kitty Kelly. (It's always nice to know the origin of some of these pearls of wisdom)

Now if any of the above, which is unfortunately just the tip of the iceberg, were to be backed up by credible witness or record, I would be interested in the dichotomy that marked the nature of Elizabeth Bowes Lyon. Now Lady Colin Campbell thought that Cecillia Glamis, broken hearted over her inability to provide a ninth or tenth child, sent hubby off to the cook. Or, if you believe Kitty Kelly, the Welsh maid.

Hello, even way back then eight children were more than enough to cover the heir and spare.

MARG, I do not believe in all this ridiculous nonsense that Lady Colin Campbell writes about, I have not even read any of her books. I do not think that The Queen Mother hated Wallis Simpson, or wanted David for herself. I dont think she was cruel to her children, both The Queen and Margaret adored their mother.
 
:previous: I never thought you did. I just get antsy when the ubiquitous "they" start deconstructing people. Sort of like tall poppy syndrome.

She was racist . . . she was born in 1900. Racism wasn't something that would impinge on her life except when concerning the Commonwealth and India, in which case they were "concerned whether the natives were capable of democracy". Actually, the paternalistic attitude covered all of the "Colonies", including Australia and New Zealand! She, like much everyone else of her status and rank had a hard time when "The natives were revolting", and then she was the same as anyone else . . . adjusting.

She thought she was better than others . . . she said in a letter she was proud of the staff after a near miss with a bomb. She wasn't patronising them as unlike them, she had a choice and her choice was to stay in London, the servants didn't have a choice, they needed to work to live.

It is easy for people to look back with the comfort of 20/20 hindsight and use words like racism, etc. I just remember that my grandmother never did believe that men had landed on the moon and packed her bag to leave when she heard the Maori Battalion were coming home. :whistling:
 
MARG, I do not believe in all this ridiculous nonsense that Lady Colin Campbell writes about, I have not even read any of her books. I do not think that The Queen Mother hated Wallis Simpson, or wanted David for herself. I dont think she was cruel to her children, both The Queen and Margaret adored their mother.

I think the Queen Mother hated Wallis, but I don't think it had anything to do with her wanting David for herself. David and Wallis' actions went against the system that the Queen Mother belonged to and displayed a blatant disregard for the sense of duty that she so clearly had. The abdication put the Queen Mother's husband in a hugely difficult position that (if I recall right) the Queen Mother blamed for his early death. Add to that the fact that Wallis and the Queen Mother were very different personality types and had very different backgrounds it's only natural to say that they probably had a rather mutual hatred of each other.
 
Yes! She was a lot of things. I will not say too much about this. My mother is British and this is stuff I've heard from family members who have worked for the royal family.
Sad. It seems as though QE II is not like this at all though. Good for her.
:previous: Yep, she's been dead long enough for the muck-rakers to start the deconstruction of a true icon.

She was racist, cruel (even to her children), she was ambitious and vile to Wallis Simpson because she hated her, not because of the abdication, but because she wanted David for herself and married Bertie as a consolation prize
Simpson wasn't much better than her...but you are right of course, her snubbing of Wallis had just as much to do with jealousy as snobbery.

. . . oh I forgot, she was also the illiegitimate daughter of the Bowes Lyons cook according to Lady Colin Campbell, or Welsh maid working in Scotland, according to Kitty Kelly. (It's always nice to know the origin of some of these pearls of wisdom)
That one never made much sense to me - why'd her parents would go through all of that in order to have another child, especially when they have several.

Another thing which annoyed me about the Queen Mother (and she was a real mother all right...) was her awful teeth. They say she rarely brushed them, and loved sweets and pink champagne. Especially in her later years. She made Queen Margrethe of Denmark look like a model in a Colgate ad.
 
In terms of racism, QEQM's attitude really wasn't much different than was the norm not only in the UK, but also in the US. On the other side of the coin though, I think she was far more tolerant of homosexuality than a lot of people of that era were. Heck, growing up in the 50s and 60s, either I had a very secluded childhood or homosexuality just wasn't talked about in the open at all.

As far as Wallis goes, I think Elizabeth knew all too well even before any hint of the abdication that the romance between David and Wallis reeked of troubles to come and for that reason, she avoided "that woman" like the plague. Not only because of the prevalent social norms and the stigma a divorced woman carried but also she knew very well that she was married to a man that in no uncertain terms wanted to be King and dreadfully feared speaking in crowds should an abdication occur. After the abdication, if I remember right, she harbored ill feelings towards Wallis as she acutely believed that it was Bertie's role as King that sent him to an early grave due to stress (along with heavy smoking). Nevertheless, she stood behind him through everything and I do think George VI would have been totally lost without her.

I think if I had to pick one word that would describe her, it would be stalwart
 
I don't remember the Queen Mum. But I was looking at a book about her the other day, and she reminds me a lot of Princess Diana- the way she gave people her full attention, and listened to them. Both were very different, but both seemed to sprinkle fairy dust around, and make people feel special! Behind the grandness , she seemed pretty down to earth . Even if she was from a different age. And no one could do formal Eveningwear like the Queen Mum! Wow!
BTW, I read on the thread about Lady Colin Campbell. I don't read her books either. The one I did read about Diana was... vile. I would not call that woman a lady.
 
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Interesting posts. What seems to happen is that modern attitudes/beliefs get imposed on people from a different era - be that racism or bad teeth!

She lived by the norms of her youth - and to me she never changed. Brought up by Victorians, lived the Victorian/Edwardian life style of her peer group and did that till she died.
 
Interesting posts. What seems to happen is that modern attitudes/beliefs get imposed on people from a different era - be that racism or bad teeth!

She lived by the norms of her youth - and to me she never changed. Brought up by Victorians, lived the Victorian/Edwardian life style of her peer group and did that till she died.

I agree, always the danger when looking back and judging people/situations in hindsight (same goes for other cultures :flowers:)

And the teeth thing, pardon me for saying, but when i see a comment like it and look at the country of the poster...up until now i've always guessed the country correct :lol: that really *is* a culture thing
 
I agree, always the danger when looking back and judging people/situations in hindsight (same goes for other cultures :flowers:)
I don't see a danger in it it at all. I think comments like "oh, well that is just the way that people were" is dismissive of the sentiment of people who were and are opposed to that way of thinking.

And the teeth thing, pardon me for saying, but when i see a comment like it and look at the country of the poster...up until now i've always guessed the country correct :lol: that really *is* a culture thing
And it's something I'll never feel guilty about either :D. Never, Lee-Z, not in this day and age. People from her own country have criticized it; don't single me out because I'm American.
 
I'll never understand why the late Queen Mother allowed her teeth to go so bad. My teeth hurt when I looked at pictures of her teeth.

That being said, I liked how elegant she remained throughout her life. Even in old age, she tried to keep a certain elegance about her. She loved her jewels and I wonder how she felt when the family stopped wearing the family heirlooms at certain official events.
 
Her teeth weren't that bad. I mean, sure they weren't the greatest colour, especially from a North American view, but they weren't rotted out and obviously she was still able to use them, otherwise she would have had dentures.
 
Maybe its just me but aren't there other aspects of the Queen Mother that are far more worthwhile to talk about than her physical appearance and her teeth? Are we really that ingrained into how a person looks and presents themselves that we make that a focus? C'mon people. Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon made a remarkable impact on the British Royal Family and I'm sure the state of her teeth didn't bother her one iota.
 
:previous: we dont make comment about physical aspects of alive and kicking royals (too fat; too thin; teeth etc) as this is deemed too personal and not allowed on this forum.

Why can we do it once they are dead?
 
I don't see a danger in it it at all. I think comments like "oh, well that is just the way that people were" is dismissive of the sentiment of people who were and are opposed to that way of thinking.


It's not that we should dismiss it, but the age in which a person lived does play a part in who they were. I guess I'm talking about putting together a more nuanced view of history.

But I definitely take your point about not unduly lionizing those of the past.
 
Maybe its just me but aren't there other aspects of the Queen Mother that are far more worthwhile to talk about than her physical appearance and her teeth? Are we really that ingrained into how a person looks and presents themselves that we make that a focus? C'mon people. Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon made a remarkable impact on the British Royal Family and I'm sure the state of her teeth didn't bother her one iota.


Talking about her teeth takes nothing away from the brilliance of her role as Queen Consort and Queen Mother. I just never understood why her teeth was that color. It was something I always wanted to mention for some reason.
 
Talking about her teeth takes nothing away from the brilliance of her role as Queen Consort and Queen Mother. I just never understood why her teeth was that color. It was something I always wanted to mention for some reason.
Because she lived to 101. She had no comestic work done to them.
 
I don't see a danger in it it at all. I think comments like "oh, well that is just the way that people were" is dismissive of the sentiment of people who were and are opposed to that way of thinking.

And it's something I'll never feel guilty about either :D. Never, Lee-Z, not in this day and age. People from her own country have criticized it; don't single me out because I'm American.

QEQM was born in 1900. By the time the Civil Rights movement started in the 1950s and Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat in 1955 here in the US, the Queen Mum was already a widow and in her 50s. It really does go to show just how much progress we have made in human rights in just a half a century eh?
 
It's not that we should dismiss it, but the age in which a person lived does play a part in who they were. I guess I'm talking about putting together a more nuanced view of history.

But I definitely take your point about not unduly lionizing those of the past.

My thoughts exactly.
 
The Queen Mother could be a difficult lady, but I don't believe in these ridiculous allegations put forward by Edward and Wallis.

The Queen Mother? That spiteful old soak dedicated herself to making our lives hell | Daily Mail Online

'So you're planning to write a book about the Queen Mother,' said the Duke, exchanging a conspiratorial smile with his wife.
'Well, we shall have to be extremely careful what we say on that subject, won't we darling?'.
'Why is that, Sir?' I inquired innocently, although I was well aware of the reason.
The Duke, only months away from being diagnosed with inoperable throat cancer, was interrupted by a convulsive spasm of coughing.

He cleared his throat and added: 'I hope your book will tell the truth, instead of all that gush they dish out about her.
'Behind that great abundance of charm is a shrewd, scheming and extremely ruthless woman.'
He must have noticed my surprised reaction, for he quickly added, with his most charming smile: 'But, of course, you cannot quote that.'
The Duchess was less inhibited. 'The Duke would have loved to return to live in the land of his birth,' she said. 'But our way was blocked at every turn. We were never allowed to go back, and we never will be allowed. Not until the day we die. She will never permit it. When we are dead, perhaps she may at last forgive us'.
When I asked her the reason, the Duchess's right arm shot out as if she was taking aim with a gun and she said: 'Jealousy.'
'Jealousy of the Duke?' I wondered. 'No!' cried the Duchess, and for the first time her southern American origins were audible. 'Jealousy of me for having married him.'
The Duke, who appeared vaguely uncomfortable with this topic, murmured: 'Well, it's hard to explain. But, yes, Elizabeth (the Queen Mother) was rather fonder of me than she ought to have been. And after I married Wallis, her attitude towards me changed.
'My sister-in-law is an arch-intriguer, and she has dedicated herself to making life hell for both of us.'
The Duchess interjected: ' Somebody once told me that even Hitler was afraid of her.'
The exiled Duke and Duchess then proceeded to make a series of astonishing allegations against the Queen Mother. All of them were dramatically at odds with her image as the nation's favourite grandmother.
They were equally at odds with the effulgently glowing, reverent, completely sanitised and at times absurdly hagiographic contents of William Shawcross's official biography launched this week.
The Duke of Windsor insisted he possessed 'proof positive' that the Queen Mother had personally engineered the Duchess's exclusion from royal rank - an action now judged constitutionally illegal and known to historians as 'the Depriving Act'.
'It was her doing entirely,' said the Duke. 'It was not something my brother, the King, would ever have done, left to himself. But he deferred to her influence, just as her daughter does now.'
On the outbreak of war in 1939, the Windsors' enforced return to Britain was met with complete ostracism by the Royal Family, led by the Queen Mother's announcement that she would not meet the Duchess.
'What are we going to do about Mrs S?' she wrote to her mother-inlaw, Queen Mary, in a less than kind reference to the woman who had been her sister-in-law for more than two years.
'I personally do not wish to receive her,' she added implacably - making it clear the initiative was hers, and hers alone.
After the fall of France in 1940, when the Windsors fled Paris, they were briefly marooned in Lisbon, where it was reported to the Germans that 'the Duke and Duchess have less fear of the King, who was a complete nincompoop, than of the shrewd Queen, who was intriguing skilfully against the Duke and particularly against the Duchess'.
Referring to her husband's appointment as Governor of the Bahamas, the Duchess told me at our 1971 meeting: 'We were then offered this pathetic little job in a ghastly backwater. It was designed to get us out of the way, but she even tried to stop that.'
Indeed, the Queen wrote to the Colonial Secretary, Lord Lloyd, predicting that if the Duke became Governor, 'a very difficult situation will arise over his wife'.
The fact that the Duchess 'has three husbands alive (including her two exes - a U.S. navy pilot and a shipping executive), will not be pleasing to the good people of the Islands'. Britons were used to 'looking up to the King's representatives'.
Then she added a sentence that puts her utter loathing of Wallis Simpson beyond doubt: 'The Duchess of Windsor is looked upon as the lowest of the low.'
When the Windsors, despite the Queen's objections, arrived in Nassau, they were confronted by Foreign Office memos instructing the local ladies not to curtsy to the Duchess.
'That was her doing, of course,' said the Duke in 1971. 'Wherever we looked, we could see her hand against us.'
The Windsors' most astonishing claim concerned their visit to the United States in 1941.
The Queen Mother, they alleged, enlisted the help of Special Branch in London; of her brother, David (later Sir David) Bowes Lyon, who was posted to the British Embassy in Washington; of the British Ambassador, Lord Halifax; and of her friends, President Franklin D. Roosevelt and his wife Eleanor, to have them followed and spied on 24 hours a day by FBI agents.
 
:previous: we dont make comment about physical aspects of alive and kicking royals (too fat; too thin; teeth etc) as this is deemed too personal and not allowed on this forum.



Why can we do it once they are dead?


While I do see what you're saying here, I have to disagree. We have an entire sub forum on TRF dedicated to discussing the appearances of royals, and while the primary focus may be their clothes other aspects of their appearance does come up fairly frequently.

To me, it's no more inappropriate to comment on the Queen Mother's teeth than it is to comment on Catherine's hair.
 
The Queen Mother could be a difficult lady, but I don't believe in these ridiculous allegations put forward by Edward and Wallis.

The Queen Mother? That spiteful old soak dedicated herself to making our lives hell | Daily Mail Online




Wow. What an uncompromisingly nasty piece. Thornton seems to have done what he criticised Shawcross for doing and that is writing a completely unbalanced portrait of his subject.




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The Queen Mother could be a difficult lady, but I don't believe in these ridiculous allegations put forward by Edward and Wallis.

The Queen Mother? That spiteful old soak dedicated herself to making our lives hell | Daily Mail Online

It is informative to learn that in excluding the Duchess from royal rank, Edward said it was his sister-in-law Elizabeth's doing entirely.
"It was not something my brother, the King would have ever done, left to himself."

In The Mad Monarchist, the Consort Profile stated:

Someone asked the Queen Mother what it was like to be a "Queen-Empress" because, with the independence of India, she was the last to hold such a title. She replied that, "It was very nice while it lasted". :queen::queen::queen::queen::queen:

A photograph of Queen Elizabeth in her crown was turned into a Christmas card during the Second World War and sent to men and women in the armed forces. :holly::candycane::holly::candycane:

In Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, Lady Colin Campbell wrote:
Later on, once Elizabeth was a royal duchess and questions were raised as to who her godparents were, the family managed to remember two godmothers, though they never did sum up even one godfather, no matter how obscure or insignificant.

The godmothers were Claude's spinster sister, Lady Maude Bowes-Lyon and Cecilia's second cousin, Mrs. Arthur (Venetia) James.

Did Lady Elizabeth not have any godfathers?
Were there any more godmothers?
 
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Don't forget that Queen Mary was still alive and she was quite the formable old bird who definitely would have input into non HRH matter. Plus Bertie was pissed off that David claimed he had no money and negotiated a large annual stipend from the King and then Bertie found out that David lied about his financial status.


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:previous: we dont make comment about physical aspects of alive and kicking royals (too fat; too thin; teeth etc) as this is deemed too personal and not allowed on this forum.

Why can we do it once they are dead?

Of COURSE we make comments on physical aspects of alive and kicking royals here, and they have been not deemed to personal or not allowed on this forum! Have you seen the duchess of york forum (too fat,etc), the diana forum (too thin) Margarethe (TEETH!!!!)
 

How awful! No wonder the family's upset! And I'm sure that Mr. Talon would be. Love the photo of them dancing. Prince Charles loved his Granny so much- he looked so happy. It is disgusting to make claims like that, but I'll probably read the book anyway, because I'm interested in the life of Mr. Talon.
 
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