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  #261  
Old 06-29-2011, 05:08 PM
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Does anyone know how she felt about Margaret's relationship with Peter?Did she support it or opposed it?
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  #262  
Old 06-29-2011, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
I suppose that she could be Queen Elizabeth of Norway the former Queen Mother (Dowager) of the UK. But really, one would assume that you would take your current husbands title and like most women, lose their decased husband name and/or title when they remarry.

Hence Raine, Countess Spencer became Raine someone else when she remarried and only took back her former name when she divorced and requested it.
My dear Zonk,

Good points. Do you think a distinction can be made between the Queen Mother and the example of the former Countess Spencer because the QM was consecrated as queen and went through a coronation? I see your point that re-marriage would make her current status to be that of her husband. In that case, I guess she would be considered the former Queen of England and the current Queen of Norway.

I would like to know any source material for Olaf asking for her hand in marriage. Can anyone direct me to a book where this is set forth. I am aware of the "100 things about the QM" list but who or what is the source for the entry about Olaf?
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  #263  
Old 06-29-2011, 05:25 PM
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I have never read the Shawcross book but in books that I have read regarding the BRF, they make no mention of an actual proposal just rumours of one.
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  #264  
Old 06-29-2011, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by IloveCP View Post
Does anyone know how she felt about Margaret's relationship with Peter?Did she support it or opposed it?
My dear IloveCP:

the Queen Mother was considered the Royal Ostrich by her courtiers and family members. She disliked unpleasantness and often did not involve herself in family matters, such as the breakdown of Charles and Diana's marriage, but felt that her proper role was to love and support her family, not to meddle or interfere.

That being said, I suspect the QM knew the marriage could not take place without Margaret either renouncing her right of succession or enduring damage to her royal status. However, I don't know that she would have openly supported it or opposed it. She probably let Margaret know she loved her and would support her but the decision was hers to make and this was a matter to be decided among Margaret, the Queen and the Queen's ministers.
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  #265  
Old 07-28-2011, 02:33 PM
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Some interiors of Glamis castle, home of the Earls of Strathmore and Kinghorne, the ancestors of HM Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.

daylife gallery
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  #266  
Old 07-30-2011, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Aliza View Post
Now back to the thread topic; I was wondering if anyone knows the story behind Lady Elizabeth Bowes Lyon's childhood nickname of Buffy?
Supposedly it was because her brother David pronounced her name as "Elizabuff" when he was very young. I also read somewhere that he was the only person who ever shortened her name in any way.
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  #267  
Old 08-01-2011, 10:29 PM
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An interesting read is "The King's Speech" co-written by Lionel Louge's grandson. It explains the courtship of Elizabeth and Bertie, and a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff. I'm about half way through it. (yes I have seen the film) Interesting stuff!
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  #268  
Old 08-02-2011, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by IloveCP View Post
Does anyone know how she felt about Margaret's relationship with Peter?Did she support it or opposed it?
The Queen Mother definitely did not support Margaret's relationship with Peter Townsend and performed what some courtiers called her "Imperial Ostrich Routine", thereby pretending the situation did not exist, much to Margaret's frustration. QEQM even kept on a friendly basis with Townsend but never discussed Margaret and their situation with either the Princess or Townsend.
It fell to the Queen to deal with this situation and of course, HM was bound to listen to her ministers.

In later years, PM stated that if the situation had been explained fully to them, with all the repercussions that were unavoidable, they both would have given up on the idea much sooner instead of pining for each other until PM's twenty-fifth birthday.

PM's famous strong dislike for Lascelles came not from the advice he gave the Queen that the marriage could not go forward as a Royal marriage but rather stemmed from Margaret's frustration for Lascelles not clearly explaining the repercussions if PM were to marry Townsend at twenty-five; both the Princess and Townsend, upon discovering the "bottom line", immediately and mutually called a halt to the romance.

Princess Margaret so regretted the waste of time and additional unnecessary heartache that Kensington Palace lore has it that she once urged her chauffeur to run Lascelles over! Of course, I have no idea if that is a true story, but this was many years later and Margaret's resentment was still boiling. (Especially if one considers Lascelles was a very old man by the time PM supposedly made the "order" to her chauffeur.)

Back to the Queen Mother - Princess Margaret often spoke to her so rudely that some ladies-in-waiting finally told QEQM they could not stand to see her spoken to in such a manner and so often. Whereupon HM smiled gently, told them all not to worry, for she was used to it! Princess Margaret's other main bone of contention with her mother was what PM considered to be her inferior education. That subject was brought up regularly, and in front of guests at all the Royal Family's private homes for most of Margaret's adult life.

To insert my personal opinion here, I don't think it was easy to be Queen Elizabeth's daughter, in Margaret's case at least. HM The Queen had her Office and some protocol to protect her, and she married very young. I'm not suggesting there was not great love between all of them as clearly, there was. But love does not continuously conceal deep-rooted resentments. In Shawcross' biography, he reminded me of an incident mentioned in several books about the Queen Mother; the famous diarist, "Chips" Channon saw Margaret, around age eighteen, at a ball and wrote that night, "...there already seems to be an air of Marie Antoinette about her".

Another "IMHO" - had King George VI lived a few years longer, the Townsend situation would have never become out of hand and I think Margaret would have made a more practical (I don't mean without love) marriage, probably into the British Aristocracy. I think she would have been happier. The death of her father was a great, great blow to her and Princess Margaret was religious and remained so, all her life. Hmmm - I think this probably could have gone into the PM thread, but as we were discussing QEQM, too, it should be okay, I hope! Anyhow, Princess Margaret was certainly an enigma in many ways; she liked the bohemian set but never let it be forgotten "who she was"; she cavorted round the Caribbean with Roddy Llewellyn while married, yet remained unfailingly religious to the end of her life. Then there's the member of the Home family who supposedly committed suicide "over her" (they supposedly had a love affair) - but nothing interfered with her duties as a mother and she certainly raised two amazing children who adored and respected her and are both very much loved by HM The Queen.

When I'm done with all the QEQM bios, I'm going to read anything new about Princess Margaret; does anyone know if an authorised biography was/is/will be written about her? I'm sure that would be a real page-turner and it might also provide more insight into the private character of the Queen Mother.
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  #269  
Old 08-02-2011, 07:41 AM
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I read somewhere about a routine firedrill being carried out at Clarence House. The Household-headed by QEQM-assembled as required. The next stage of the procedure could not take place because somebody pointed out that HRHPM had not come out of her room,to which the QM replied that "she will just have to burn". On another occasion, QEII was interupted at a gathering, with the information that PM had phoned in a ver agitated state and was threatening to throw herself from her window, to which HM raised her eyes to the ceiling and said that she couldn't hurt herself because she lived on the ground floor!!!! which rather implies-given that the story is true?!!!-that HM had heard it all before. I imagine that, at times, PM proved quite a trial to both Mama and sister.
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  #270  
Old 08-02-2011, 09:08 AM
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I've also heard those stories and believe them to be true. I think I did mention in one of my posts that Margaret gave the QM a hard time over many things, especially what PM felt to be her lack of a proper education. I completely agree that PM gave both her mother and sister a rather difficult time. Knowing the Queen, HM probably didn't interfere much, unless constitutional issues were at stake, as in the divorce from Snowdon and the situation with Peter Townsend.

Interestingly, King George VI was absolutely determined to show no favouritism between his two daughters and they wore identical clothes long past the age common for children then to do. As he grew up as a second son, he felt he had suffered while his brother David got all the attention and he was determined to not let history repeat itself. This attitude is probably why both of the Queens Elizabeth tended to give Margaret a lot of leeway where behaviour was concerned. HM The Queen also realised that Princess Margaret's official standing in the Royal Household had come down quite a bit since their father's death. HM also showed remarkable sensitivity to her mother's position, knowing it must be a shock to go from being the Queen Consort in BP to being the Queen Mother in Clarence House. (Incidentally, the QM would have preferred Marlborough House as Queen Mary died just prior to the Coronation, but money had already been spent on changing Clarence House for her and in those austere times, the government was leery of seeming to waste money. After all QEQM had done for the country in WWII, one would think they'd have been happy to make her happy, even if some money had already been spent on Clarence House. Marlborough House was far more appropriate and better located and needed nothing but changes in decor. Clarence House certainly would not have stood empty. It's a shame that the government didn't allow the switch as the QM was so battered by grief and the country owed her a debt that money could never repay, IMHO)

But no matter what the Royal Household thought, HM The Queen, Queen Elizabeth and Princess Margaret formed the absolute centre of the Royal Family until the two deaths in 2002. One great book called them "the implacable troika at the heart of the Royal Family".

The story with PM threatening to throw herself out the window was, I believe, when she was "seeing" Robin Douglas-Home who later did commit suicide, himself. They were involved in a "romance" of some sort circa 1965, I think. I have to literally LOL at the vision in my imagination of HM The Queen raising her eyes and telling them that "Margot's" room is on the ground floor. I can see it as clearly as though I had been there!
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  #271  
Old 08-02-2011, 09:59 AM
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I've also heard those stories and believe them to be true. I think I did mention in one of my posts that Margaret gave the QM a hard time over many things, especially what PM felt to be her lack of a proper education.
What was to stop her completing her own education? Perhaps it was easier to berate her mother for not properly attending to her educational needs-especially when she was suffering a hangover from last night and that evening was required to attend yet another party!!! Life must have been tough!!!
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  #272  
Old 08-02-2011, 11:37 AM
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Aliza

Thank you very much for your last few posts. I have learned more about HRH Princess Margaret from you than I had from reading mountains of books on the Royal family.
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  #273  
Old 08-02-2011, 03:33 PM
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I have a vague memory of having read that she had been waiting for the POW to ask for her hand. One of the newspapers of the day printed the information that he was about to become engaged to a Scottish aristocrat. Should there have been any truth in her hopes for this, IMO, chalk and cheese union, might she have kept Bertie at arms length until all hopes of David had gone?
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  #274  
Old 08-02-2011, 03:37 PM
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That's a repeated rumour that is not true.

The Lady Elizabeth Bowles Lyon had no desire to marry the Prince of Wales and vice versa.
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  #275  
Old 08-04-2011, 01:06 AM
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It's been 111 years since she was born!


I wonder what her family is doing for her birthday.
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  #276  
Old 08-04-2011, 02:50 PM
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Perhaps lifting a glass to toast her memory.
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  #277  
Old 08-05-2011, 01:58 PM
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Guys, we have a lengthy thread on the Shawcross biography in the Royal Library where some of the same issues and limitations with the book have been discussed. Rather than duplicating across threads, those posts discussing Shawcross and [better] bios have been moved to the Library thread.
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  #278  
Old 08-14-2011, 05:20 PM
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Here's an amusing tale from a new volume by political diarist Chris Mullin:

July 3
At dinner with friends and their spouses, a woman who runs a bookshop in Wandsworth told us how the musician Sir Thomas Beecham, while shopping in Fortnum & Mason just after the war, was approached by a woman whom he vaguely recognised.
‘Sir Thomas, how are you?’ He replied that he was fine and, still unable to put a name to the woman, fished for clues. How were her children?
‘Fine.’ ‘And your husband?’ ‘Yes, he’s fine, too – still King.’


Read more: In his most riveting volume, Chris Mullin reveals what her majesty said as a murderer was sent to the gallows | Mail Online
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  #279  
Old 08-14-2011, 08:39 PM
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My dear Ladongas,
Thanks for the amusing anecdote. Didn't something similar happen to Prince Charles or Princess Anne when asked (by an American, I think) how his or her mother was, Charles or Anne responded, "Fine, she's still the Queen."
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  #280  
Old 08-14-2011, 11:03 PM
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Yes, I think I have heard a similar story or two. One of them involves Princess Margaret- when asked, "how's your sister", she imperiously answered, "you mean Her Majesty the Queen!". I did like the QM story because it was so easy to imagine her saying it in a droll fashion.
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