Germans? - Page 3

BeatrixFan · #41 10-21-2005, 02:03 PM

I think thats very true Ysbel. The next stage of the investigation is to begin creating individual nationality trees for each of todays crowd.

That would show the nationality of the Queen Mother, Diana etc etc and would show a clearer bloodline for William and Charles also.

I think Diana and Camilla are both descendants of a mistress of Charles II - but to be honest, so are alot of British Aristocracy. We have Barbara Villiers to thank for that!

ysbel · #42 10-21-2005, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Well, the Queen Mother is reputed to descend from King Robert Bruce, so there's some Scottish in there somewhere. The Lyon family are Scottish rather than English, aren't they?

Oh so that means she's related to me! I never knew that! :) I'm mostly English but my grandmother was a Mackintosh from the Highlands and a great grandmother was descended from Robert the Bruce.

**Warren** · #43 10-21-2005, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysbel

This is a mammoth effort, thanks so much for putting it together!

A mammoth effort indeed. Endless opportunity for discussion and debate.
Have you thought about making it into a board game? :)
.

BeatrixFan · #44 10-21-2005, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Have you thought about making it into a board game?

Yes. And before you even ask, I'm being the Top Hat okay? Come on, I invented it - if I want to be the Top Hat, I think I'm sort of entitled. :p

**Warren** · #45 10-21-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

Yes. And before you even ask, I'm being the Top Hat okay? Come on, I invented it - if I want to be the Top Hat, I think I'm sort of entitled. :p

I think you've earned the right to be (and wear) whatever hat you want.:) I'd go for a Crown myself.

**Elspeth** · #46 10-21-2005, 02:43 PM

Sorry, Warren, I've got the crown. Will a nice tiara do for you instead?

**Warren** · #47 10-21-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Sorry, Warren, I've got the crown. Will a nice tiara do for you instead?

Anything with diamonds, Elspeth! :)

Lady Marmalade · #48 10-22-2005, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

It does seem that way Lady Marmalade. William V has an English Mother and an English Father. Or does he? Based on Paternal Line, he doesn't. Remember, that by following paternal line - Prince Charles is Greek - that makes his sons Greek - Prince William will be the second Greek King of England, after his father.
By Maternal Line, William is English through Diana.
By Jus Soli, he is English having been born in England.

Yes, but while Prince Phillip was Greek by virtue of being born in that country to the ruling family, his bloodline is not Greek as is well known.

There are only three members of Greek Royal Family with actual Greek blood, Princess Alexandra - Past Queen of Yugoslavia, born to Aspasia Minos, and Princesses Olga and Alexandra, born to Marina Karella and Prince Michael.

Lady Marmalade · #49 10-22-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Sorry, Warren, I've got the crown. Will a nice tiara do for you instead?

May I have the London Fringe Tiara then? :)

BeatrixFan · #50 10-22-2005, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Yes, but while Prince Phillip was Greek by virtue of being born in that country to the ruling family, his bloodline is not Greek as is well known

I totally agree Lady Marmalade and I understand what you mean. The entire Greek Royal Family is Danish, set aside for King Constantine who Prince Michael of Greece says , "is the most Greek of all of us".

When trying to determine a nationality, you have to use one of three methods and not change at all. I prefer to do things by Maternal Line but others use Jus Soli - it's a personal thing, although the official way is Jus Soli which would make him Greek despite his Danish blood.

Lady Marmalade · #51 10-22-2005, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

I totally agree Lady Marmalade and I understand what you mean. The entire Greek Royal Family is Danish, set aside for King Constantine who Prince Michael of Greece says , "is the most Greek of all of us".

When trying to determine a nationality, you have to use one of three methods and not change at all. I prefer to do things by Maternal Line but others use Jus Soli - it's a personal thing, although the official way is Jus Soli which would make him Greek despite his Danish blood.

Gotcha..I understand now how you are going about this. :)

I think it is very interesting and fun to discuss this family's background.

Even here in the United States we are taught that up until the recent past two generations, the blood background is mostly of German lineage.

BeatrixFan · #52 10-22-2005, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Gotcha..I understand now how you are going about this. :)

Hee Hee - I've only just understood myself Lady M!

Quote:

I think it is very interesting and fun to discuss this family's background.

Even here in the United States we are taught that up until the recent past two generations, the blood background is mostly of German lineage

I think it's good to know about the German lineage but I can't stand ignorance. These republicans who say, "They're all German" - truly irritating!

I love the whole idea of the great European Houses mixing and being so exclusive!
.

Alexandra · #53 10-22-2005, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zonk1189

I need to check...but wasn't Princess Alice (Prince Phillip's mother) the grandaughter of Queen Victoria. Her mother was Princess Alice, the 2nd daughter of the Queen. So that would make her English/German more than Russian.

Prince Philip's mother was another princess Alice! Not the daughter of Queen Victoria but the granddaughter of that first Alice. Also:

Queen Victoria
Daughter: Alice, married with Ludwig von Hessen-Darmstadt
Their daughter was Victoria, married with Ludwig von Battenberg (or Mountbatten)
Their daughter was Alice, married with Andreas of Greece
Their son prince is Philip, married with Elisabeth II of England

Skydragon · #54 11-21-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

Thats a matter for debate though Skydragon. I've researched it and all the "German" ancestors seem to trace back to Denmark. Certainly the House of Windsor is extremely Danish in origin.

We will have to agree to differ, after all, Queen Victoria's husband Albert was from Saxe-Coburg, a German duchy. Victoria's grandson King George V was an honorary Field Marshal in the German army and decided to renounce the German name and titles and adopt that of Windsor.

Edward VIII once declared: "There is not one drop of blood in my veins that is not German."

BeatrixFan · #55 11-21-2006, 12:29 PM

Well, I won't go into it here because it's very much off-topic but if you trace the Saxe-Coburgs back as I did, there was quite a strong Danish presence IIRC. I'll have to dig those papers out again! But they do seem more Danish to me. I did find however that it depends on what method you use - paternal, maternal or jus soli.

Jo of Palatine · #56 11-21-2006, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milla Ca

I´m not here to defend german history, but some people should think before they decide what has been hidden in closets... whereever....
Sorry Avalon, i understand....

Hey, did I miss the fun when it came to Germany? Hm... sad, that...

Jo of Palatine · #57 11-21-2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

Thats a matter for debate though Skydragon. I've researched it and all the "German" ancestors seem to trace back to Denmark. Certainly the House of Windsor is extremely Danish in origin.

Hm, hm, hm, we should call in Warren with his expertise. But last thing I knew was that the Danish Royal family is extremely Germanic in their origins, which is totally normal, as the idea of "Germany" dates back only to 1871. Before that it was the Holy Roman Empire of Germany, which included at times countries from the Russian border to ... to the rest of the world, come to think of it when we take German emperor Karl V. (Charles V. of Habsburg) who, as grandson of the kings of Spain Ferdinand and Isabella was not only king of Spain but of all Spanish dominions round the world at that time. He said that in his "empire the sun never goes down" and was right about it as the pope had devided the rest of the world between Portugal and Spain at that time. Nationalism is an idea of the 1800s and the Germanic connections of the Windsors are mostly older than that, due to the marriage of Scottish/English princess Elizabeth Stuart to the prince -elector of the Palatinate, who was king of Bohemia for a winter.

So let's state that at a time when nationalities started to get more important than dynastic connections, the Windsors (aka the Hanoverans) had safely arrived in Britain and made it their home. Even though due to the lack of protestant princesses in other parts of Europe they chose mainly wifes (and husbands) from German(ic) protestant noble and Royal families.

Jo of Palatine · #58 11-22-2006, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

I prefer to do things by Maternal Line but others use Jus Soli - it's a personal thing, although the official way is Jus Soli which would make him Greek despite his Danish blood.

If you use the maternal line then the Windsors as descendants of Mary Stuart's granddaughter Elizabeth Stuart of Scotland and England are surely British! Or not?