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  #101  
Old 06-30-2014, 11:35 PM
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The Franks were "German"
The Celts originated from Halstatt (Austria) 600BC so "German" as well.
The Vikings, Goths, Visigoths, Ostrogoths were also German.
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  #102  
Old 07-01-2014, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by cmbruno View Post
The Franks were "German"
The Celts originated from Halstatt (Austria) 600BC so "German" as well.
The Vikings, Goths, Visigoths, Ostrogoths were also German.
Well,it seems that the vast majority of the British population have Germanic ancestry,not only the Royal family...
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  #103  
Old 07-01-2014, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by cmbruno View Post
The Franks were "German"
The Celts originated from Halstatt (Austria) 600BC so "German" as well.
The Vikings, Goths, Visigoths, Ostrogoths were also German.

The Celts are Celts and nothing else. They might originate from what today is called Austria but at the time there wasn't a German insight anywhere near.


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  #104  
Old 07-01-2014, 08:01 PM
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The Celts are Celts and nothing else. They might originate from what today is called Austria but at the time there wasn't a German insight anywhere near.
"An introduction of language"(1993) by Victoria Fremkin and Robert Rodman:

"Romans invaded Britain in the first century AD and dominated Germanic Celts, the previous conquerors of Britain.Britain's northern tribes, the Scots and Picts were attacking the Celtic invaders at the time that the Romans arrived, but Rome prevailed.And as the power of Rome declined in the fifth century, the Romans left Britain.

The Celts then sent for Germanic Jutes(Teuton mercenaries) to repel their old enemies, the Scots and and the Picts.In 449 AD., the Jutes helped to defeat the Scots and the Picts and having won, decided to dominate their cousins the Celts with the help of other German tribes, the Angles and Saxons.It is from an Angles and Saxons and the linguistic soup already present in British Isles that English was born."
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  #105  
Old 10-23-2014, 07:26 PM
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When Queen Elizabeth II visited Germany in 1965, newspapers and magazines published the Windsor family tree with its German roots
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  #106  
Old 06-24-2015, 05:58 AM
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"Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith".

You can’t get more British than that, really.

Yet as the Queen prepares for another state visit to Germany, idle minds again turn to questions about the connections between our two countries, and not least the Teutonic heritage of the Royal Family.

So, to put it in a nutshell, how German is the Queen?
More: How German is the Queen? - Telegraph
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  #107  
Old 06-24-2015, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post

------------------------------------------

Officially (and luckily for the British Royal Family), nationality is determined by jus soli. Therefore all Monarchs since Queen Victoria at least, have been British.

What do you all think?
Nationality is not determined by jus soli in the UK. A person born in Britain whose parents are both non-British is not British. Conversely, a person who is born overseas, but has at least one British parent can obtain British nationality. At least that is what I thought. Has the law changed lately ?
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  #108  
Old 06-24-2015, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Nationality is not determined by jus soli in the UK. A person born in Britain whose parents are both non-British is not British. Conversely, a person who is born overseas, but has at least one British parent can obtain British nationality. At least that is what I thought. Has the law changed lately ?

But what determines if a person's parents are British?

George III was born in Britain to parents who were not born in Britain. His son, Prince Edward, Duke of Kent, was born in Britain to a father who was also born in Britain and a mother who was not. Edward's daughter, Victoria, was also born in Britain with similar parentage, and her son, Edward VII, was born in Britain to a mother born in Britain but a father born outside of it. George V was born in Britain to a British-born father and married a woman, Mary, who was born in Britain to parents who were not born in Britain although her mother had a British born father. George VI was born in Britain to this British born couple, married a British born wife, and had a daughter who was born in Britain.

By that same argument, the DoE was born in Greece to a mother who was born in Britain, and her mother, and grandmother, great-grandmother (Victoria), great-great-grandfather (Edward), and great-great-great-grandfather (George III) were all born in Britain.
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  #109  
Old 06-24-2015, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
But what determines if a person's parents are British?

George III was born in Britain to parents who were not born in Britain. His son, Prince Edward, Duke of Kent, was born in Britain to a father who was also born in Britain and a mother who was not. Edward's daughter, Victoria, was also born in Britain with similar parentage, and her son, Edward VII, was born in Britain to a mother born in Britain but a father born outside of it. George V was born in Britain to a British-born father and married a woman, Mary, who was born in Britain to parents who were not born in Britain although her mother had a British born father. George VI was born in Britain to this British born couple, married a British born wife, and had a daughter who was born in Britain.

By that same argument, the DoE was born in Greece to a mother who was born in Britain, and her mother, and grandmother, great-grandmother (Victoria), great-great-grandfather (Edward), and great-great-great-grandfather (George III) were all born in Britain.

The British posters can answer your questions much better than I. My understanding, however, is that there is a law (or there used to be a law) according to which all descendants of Sophia of Hanover, no matter where they were born or who their parents were, were entitled to British nationality.
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  #110  
Old 06-24-2015, 10:37 AM
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^^^ The Sophia Naturalization Act passed in 1705, gave in perpetuity the right of British citizenship to Sophia of Hanover's non-Catholic descendants.

The Act was repealed by section 34 of, and Part II of Schedule 4 to, the British Nationality Act 1948
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  #111  
Old 06-24-2015, 10:45 AM
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If we are talking blood...then the current grandchildren and great-grandchildren are the most British the Royal Family has been in years. The Queen is half Scottish thanks to her mother. You must all remember up until recently in the 40 years or so the Nobility looked down upon the Royal Family and called them "Those Germans". Even Diana allegedly used that phrase as well when she was upset with them. Putting aside where a person was born, the current two generations are the most British ever if we are talking about blood as opposed to birth place.
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  #112  
Old 06-24-2015, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The British posters can answer your questions much better than I. My understanding, however, is that there is a law (or there used to be a law) according to which all descendants of Sophia of Hanover, no matter where they were born or who their parents were, were entitled to British nationality.

But that's not the argument you were making. You said that a person's British citizenship depends on their parents (which isn't entirely accurate itself), so I questioned at what point are the parents in question British?

Disregarding the Sophia Naturalization Act, every British monarch since George III has been British citizens at birth on the grounds that they were born in Britain to an individual who was either a British citizen or someone who was legally settled in the UK.

Yes, I went to the UK government website on British citizenship to figure this out.
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  #113  
Old 06-24-2015, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade View Post
If we are talking blood...then the current grandchildren and great-grandchildren are the most British the Royal Family has been in years. The Queen is half Scottish thanks to her mother.
True,but if we talk about blood,Diana is also a descendant of the House of Hanover through Countess Sophia Charlotte von Platen-Hallermund,daughter of Elector Ernst August von Hannover and Clara Elisabeth von Meysenburg...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade View Post
You must all remember up until recently in the 40 years or so the Nobility looked down upon the Royal Family and called them "Those Germans". Even Diana allegedly used that phrase as well when she was upset with them. Putting aside where a person was born, the current two generations are the most British ever if we are talking about blood as opposed to birth place.
Well,who looked down on whom is very debatable as the Gotha I and II "circle" didn't want to intermarry with British nobility in the first place which was a "punch in face" to them...so,a phrase could be only a reaction to something they didn't already like...
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  #114  
Old 06-27-2015, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Nationality is not determined by jus soli in the UK. A person born in Britain whose parents are both non-British is not British. Conversely, a person who is born overseas, but has at least one British parent can obtain British nationality. At least that is what I thought. Has the law changed lately ?
People who were born in the UK before 1 January 1983 are British citizens. https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-...sh-citizenship
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  #115  
Old 07-22-2016, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
Lol. Very true. According to most sources, they did marry. If they didn't, it's very easy to disregard her because she didn't give him any children or contribute to the Royal line in any way.

Do as Mary did and delete her!
am I reading this right??? what sources say that Jane Grey and Edw VI married? NONE. she was married to Guildfrod Dudley. where as these sources?
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  #116  
Old 07-24-2016, 04:54 AM
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I highly doubt that Beatrix fan will reply as she last posted on this site in 2012.

It is often a problem when people refer to sources when they don't check the a) the date of the post and b) when the poster last posted.

If a poster hasn't posted for 4 years there is usually a good chance that they have left the board altogether.
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  #117  
Old 07-24-2016, 05:54 AM
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Speaking as someone who is technically second generation of a diaspora community (as far as the English are considered a diaspora community in NZ) I've never been comftable with the implication that there is something wrong about the RFs German heritage as it overlooks the assimilation process that immigrant families (and the RF are an immigrant family - in fact they are Britans most successful and well integrated) undergo when they choose to go to a new country. The fact they have been there for 200 years and showed where their loyalty was in two world wars against their ancestral home (always a painful experience) says a lot. Most of this xenophobic muck is really about the fact that too many in the uk are in denial about the amount of inward migration that has come into the UK over the centuries and the fact that there really is no such thing as "native English" let alone British. Long standing ties to Germany, the Low Countries and Scandinavia would also need to be overlooked along with the UKs history of mass emigration for this logic to work as well. I consider the families ancestry to be a positive and a strength not a shameful thing to be hidden. They should be more proud of their roots as it shows that the UK can absorb inward migration with success and that ties to Europe are a strength not a drawback. Because if people can say such horrid things about the first family of Britain and its most prominent immigrant clan, than what does that say for other people who may have migrated in? maybe its the fact I'm from a country that was built on immigration means that it's less shocking to me than it is for those where ideas of blood and soil still hold water that it does not bother me? I could also say the same about Europes other royal families as well.
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  #118  
Old 07-24-2016, 05:59 AM
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There is clearly nothing wrong with their German ancestry in 2016, but there was something wrong with it in 1916

It's just in 2016 they don't identify as being German, but I don't think they are embarrassed by it.
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  #119  
Old 07-24-2016, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
There is clearly nothing wrong with their German ancestry in 2016, but there was something wrong with it in 1916

It's just in 2016 they don't identify as being German, but I don't think they are embarrassed by it.

My beef isn't with the RF themselves - it's with the way it gets talked about as if it's some skeleton in the families closet by people looking to score points and wanting to show off. It was unfair that things got as bad as they did in 1916 - anti German hysteria was very bad in those days - it was probably worse out in the colonies, I know for a fact it was very bad in NZ and lead to a great deal of un-necessary suffering. It also playes into the bogus view of WWI a royal family feud that got out of hand - the reasons were mostly about nationalism, instability in the Balkans and Germany's unifaction throwing the European state system out of whack, in other words social and economic forces and actions of politicians - but you would be hard pressed to guess from the innuendo that comes up about the RF as a possible fifth colum for Germany in both world wars.
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  #120  
Old 07-24-2016, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
There is clearly nothing wrong with their German ancestry in 2016, but there was something wrong with it in 1916

It's just in 2016 they don't identify as being German, but I don't think they are embarrassed by it.
Of course, by now they are quite "British" thanks to the marriages in the past century. Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon was Scots and English so the current Queen is at least 50% British by ancestry. The Duke of Edinburgh is nearly fully German by ancestry, although a Prince of Greece and Denmark, making The Prince of Wales about 25% British by ancestry. Lady Diana Spencer was English, Irish, Scots, and American, making Prince William nearly 75% British by ancestry. And now of course Catherine Middleton is entirely British, making Prince George the most British heir since the future Edward VI.
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