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  #1281  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:11 AM
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I'd say that even in the early part of thte century only very strict people would classify divorce for cruelty, as "as bad" as bieng divorced for one's own adutlery. Divorce was based on fault at the time.. and some were less faulty than others. So presumably Wallis was considered an innocent party in her first divorce. IN fact she was technically the innocnet party in her second divorce, since she divorced Ernest for adultery...
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  #1282  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:23 AM
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Yes, the judge in the case was described as being 'suspicious'. Of course most of the divorce cases involving adultery in that era involved staged circumstances involving hotel detectives, chambermaids and a hired female stooge as the 'guilty' party.

I still can't help but think that, if the story of the King's romance with Wallis had broken in British papers a couple of months into his reign, bang would have gone Wallis's chances of a clean divorce.
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  #1283  
Old 08-24-2016, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Yes, the judge in the case was described as being 'suspicious'. Of course most of the divorce cases involving adultery in that era involved staged circumstances involving hotel detectives, chambermaids and a hired female stooge as the 'guilty' party.

I still can't help but think that, if the story of the King's romance with Wallis had broken in British papers a couple of months into his reign, bang would have gone Wallis's chances of a clean divorce.
most divorces were collussive at the time.. Ernest WAS having an affair, it wasn't all a put up job.. but the courts were trying to stop any divorce that they suspected was wanted by boht parties and fixed up... i suppose if Wallis could not get a divorce least with her as the innocent party, it mgiht have affected her sitaution with David. She coudl hardly have him as co respondennt...
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  #1284  
Old 09-21-2016, 02:17 AM
eya eya is online now
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Duke of Windsor had a love child with a Parisian seamstress – and paid to keep her silence, new book claims
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  #1285  
Old 09-21-2016, 03:18 AM
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Don't subscribe to the Telegraph so can't see beyond the paywall. Was this while Edward was serving in France during WW1? I know older officers took him to a brothel during this period, as an initiation and he was involved with a couple of young French women he wrote about in letters at the time a little later on.

Love child, though! If there was proof surely this would have come out before now? Plus, even if Edward did pay out for upkeep etc, he may have thought the child was his when it needn't necessarily have been. Conditions in wartime Gay Paree and all that!
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  #1286  
Old 09-21-2016, 03:59 AM
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It seems unlikley. the DOW (among other things) never seemed the most fertile of men. There may have been illegitimate children that we dont know of, or that HE didn't know of.. but after all, we've never heard of any children at all, through his long life. He did like older women, and his long standing liaisons were with married ladies at a time when it was not that usual to acknowledge a royal bastard and when it was possible for the women to take precauations against an unwanted pregnancy. HIs wife was around 40 when they married and never had any children either. I dont think that he OR Wallis were all that keen on children, but even allowing for all this, i would say that it seems very unlikely that he got a woman pregnant.
Even as a young man, he would problaby have taken steps to prevent this, and not wanted to have the scandal of an illegitimate child, since it wasn't like earlier days when royal men didnt think anythng of having them and the public accepted them. His father would likely have been furiuos to hear of his having this youthful indiscretion. and I'd say that while not infertile, perhaps he was not a very fertile man and while he did take precautions or his women did, they were less necesary than they would be with other men?
His brothers all produced a few children, George VI had 2 daughters, Henry had 2 sons, George D of Kent had 3 children..and Mary had 2 boys...
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  #1287  
Old 09-21-2016, 11:01 AM
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From the article

The Duke of Windsor had a love child with a Parisian seamstress and bought her silence with money that helped her become one of the French capital's top fashion designers, a new book claims.

In The Man Who Should Have Been King, François Graftieaux claims the Duke had an affair with his grandmother – Marie-Léonie Graftieaux – during one of his society trips to Paris in 1912.

The 70-year old Swiss Frenchman believes the pair met in their late teens at a famous Paris amusement park, Luna Park, which the Duke mentions in his memoirs and his grandmother refers to in her diary.

The Duke had been staying with the Marquis de Breteuil, a wealthy French aristocrat whose two sons were the British royal's age and took him on jaunts around Paris.

Shortly after the birth of her son in 1916, Ms Graftieaux, a working-class seamstress who had also modelled for a well known Parisian designer, suddenly had the means to open up her own fashion house and changed her name to Marcelle Dormoy.

Mr Graftieaux said: "I believe that a secret contract was agreed in which she received money in exchange for her silence on the matter."
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  #1288  
Old 09-21-2016, 11:25 AM
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Saw the story on line. Not really all that convincing. If he really thinks his mother was the Dukes' mistress and was givne money for keeping it silent why does' he not honour the wishes of his parents and keep quiet about the affair?
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  #1289  
Old 09-21-2016, 10:29 PM
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Pierre-Edouard Graftieaux was born in 1916. It was interesting that the father section of the birth section was left blank.
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  #1290  
Old 09-21-2016, 10:41 PM
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That was not unusual when the mother was unmarried and is a clear sign that the child was illegitimate.
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  #1291  
Old 09-22-2016, 04:44 AM
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And what's this "the man who shoudl have been King?" stuff? He would not have been King..
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  #1292  
Old 09-22-2016, 04:57 AM
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Yeps. There was absolutely no way possible that anyone that claims to be the son of Edward VIII/Duke of Windsor would ever have been in the line of succession. Even if sired during the period when Edward VIII was King, he was not legitimately born. After the abdication, it was expressed stated that any children would not be in any way in the line of succession.

I seriously think this is all blowing smoke. Even if it was proven that this guy was Edward's "love child" it would still amount to nothing.
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  #1293  
Old 09-22-2016, 03:57 PM
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I'm usually quite skeptical of these claims. However, the photo to the left of Edward VIII, at the beginning of the article, does put me in mind of George VI. I thought that the Duke of Windsor was sterile due to having the mumps.
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  #1294  
Old 09-22-2016, 04:05 PM
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Not proven. He might have been, but unless he actually tried to have kids, one coud not really say. And I should imagine that he never tried. He would not IMO want to father illegitimate children, and would probably expect mistresses to take precautions...and I don't think he and Wallis evr wanted a family...
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  #1295  
Old 09-22-2016, 05:35 PM
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I know of at least two families here in Australia who have children fathered by Edward on his tour in 1921. One lived not far from where I grew up and her school fees were paid for by BP and she received cards and money from Edward every year on her birthday and for Christmas. They never actually said he was her father and the line put out was that he was sending the cards to a child whose grandparents had entertained him for a week on that tour and he had gone shooting and done other things a young prince would enjoy in rural Australia. The girl was born 9 months after that week and the parents weren't engaged until nearly three months after the visit and married less than a month after that so she was pregnant when she married. Locally is was well believed that Edward was the father. As far as I am aware there was no acknowledgement as such but there was this regular payment.

The other story relates to a similar situation in Qld from a boy born there 9 months after Edward stayed at the home but I don't know of any payments being made or anything like that.
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  #1296  
Old 09-23-2016, 01:32 PM
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So it's possible then.
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  #1297  
Old 09-23-2016, 05:21 PM
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I would be dubious.
People can say or hint things, or infer from the fact that a child was born 9 months after David was visiting. But it isn't proof.
I THINK that he would have been careful with women, because Im sure that George V would have been narky about affairs (even if he had pre marital sexual things himself) and if there had been a pregnancy resulting from an affair he would have been smoking furious.
While Contraception wasn't perfect by then it was reasonably good, - a lot better than it had been in George Vs day) and if a girl got pregnant by David I'd say it was because he or she was careless/wanted it to happen.
David was afraid of his father, so I doubt if he would have let more than 1 girl get pregnant..Maybe once, there might be an accident and probalby after huffing and puffing George V would have paid up to avoid scandal, but I'd say that he would have given his son a rare telling off and scared him off doing it again.
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  #1298  
Old 09-23-2016, 07:29 PM
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The payments to the girl/women/child near my home town continued until Edward died in 1972. Why - I don't know but every year a card and money for birthday and Christmas from Edward - very suggestive.

Contraceptive aren't full-proof today - no way they were 100 years ago.
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  #1299  
Old 09-23-2016, 08:33 PM
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I remember reading some correspondence between Edward and his longterm mistress before Thelma, Wallis etc, Freda Dudley Ward, and at one point in about 1922 Edward became extremely excited because it appeared that Freda might be pregnant, presumably by him. It was a false alarm, but if it had happened her husband would no doubt have been persuaded to acknowledge the child as his.

It's remarkable that during all the years of that particular affair there was only one such incident, and yet Edward is supposed to have travelled the Empire in the 1920's spreading his seed here, there and everywhere, with babies being born (there were supposed illegitimates in Canada in the 1920's too.)

In a pre-DNA age paternity was impossible to really prove. Edward may have believed in several of these cases that he was the father (he appeared pathetically happy when he thought Freda was pregnant) when it wasn't the case at all, and in fact a boyfriend or other male was responsible.
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  #1300  
Old 09-24-2016, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I
In a pre-DNA age paternity was impossible to really prove. Edward may have believed in several of these cases that he was the father (he appeared pathetically happy when he thought Freda was pregnant) when it wasn't the case at all, and in fact a boyfriend or other male was responsible.
I wouldn't have put him down for a man who was very keen ot be a father? But perhaps if It were Freda's child -he was very fond of her, and he would have had the fun side of fatherhood without any of the work or responsibility. Freda's husband would likely have agreed to acknowledge paternity and Ed would have had a child without any hard work!
I always found it hard to imagine that he would have "married a suitable girl" and had kids, that he would have to have some real input and work with.. or that he and Wallis would have children. They struck me as SO selfishly and weirdly wrapped up in each other.. (or at least he was with her) that they wouldn't want children.
But maybe if he was with Wallis, while he adored her, he did miss having a child?
he was said to be very fond of Freda DW's daughters.
but there are always stories about royals, that they have fathered children and it is impossilbe to say and easy to make up something.. Hint that a child is the royals' offspring....-and that the family have been given money to pay for its education or what have you...
or gossip around the teatables that Little Mrs X was friendly with the prince when he was visiting, and that she produced a baby - well just about 9 months after his departure ec...
Or that Miss So and so left town a few months after he was on a tour in X...
Gossip and newspapers love such stories but they are not proven,.
I just do feel that he wasn't very fertile.. not through mumps or anything but just not everyone is as fertile as everyone else..
George VI and Q Eliz only had the 2 daughters when they would have problaby liked a son... and it was a few years before they had teir first child.
So perhaps Edward suspected he wasn't the most fertile man and that's why he was pleased that he might have fathered a child with Freda
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