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  #1261  
Old 08-10-2016, 12:04 AM
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Sorry..I said Bertie...I meant David! Churchill approached David about it. David refused to consider it.



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  #1262  
Old 08-10-2016, 12:15 AM
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True, I think she was pleased enough with being very rich, and looked up to, having a certain status, even if it wasn't being queen.
And she got on OK with David, and of course a woman of her class didn't have a career, but had her housekeeping and social organising as occupation.
All the same, there must have been problems. Look at her odd affair with Jimmy Donahue. and when they DID get a role as "semi Royal" I don't think she liked it , nor did he.. Basically I think neither of them cared for "serious work" of any kind, but he still felt the lack of it more.
I think that he went to Germany after the marriage because he felt lost without being king and realised perhaps then what he had given up...I don't believe he was a Nazi, just a very conservative conservative and anti Bolshevik, but he liked the idea of a visit to Germany which gave him and Wallis semi royal status again.
After the war he was bored stiff, knew he had made a mess of whatever royal jobs he had had during the war and just had nothing to do...So he wasn't going to be offered anything else and the British public had gotten fed up with him..
And he didn't have the inititave to do anything for himself. he could have set up a charity, read a lot, ANYTHING.. but he just seems to have been aimless...
I think he remained obsessed with Wallis all his life and I suppose that gave him some happiness, but I wonder if he knew she didn't love him nearly as much a he did her.
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  #1263  
Old 08-10-2016, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Sorry..I said Bertie...I meant David! Churchill approached David about it. David refused to consider it.



LaRae
Sorry I got a bit confused, I thought that soemeone had said "even if Bertie approved" and that that meant that the Duke of Y had been keen on the idea..I was surprised because I'd never heard of his considering the idea.. But I thought that perhaps he had wanted to find some way of keeping David on the throne.
Thanks, LaRae, I thought that David had briefly considered it, but didn't want a "half way house", he wanted her to be queen.
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  #1264  
Old 08-10-2016, 12:24 AM
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Sorry I got a bit confused, I thought that soemeone had said "even if Bertie approved" and that that meant that the Duke of Y had been keen on the idea..I was surprised because I'd never heard of his considering the idea.. But I thought that perhaps he had wanted to find some way of keeping David on the throne.
Thanks, LaRae, I thought that David had briefly considered it, but didn't want a "half way house", he wanted her to be queen.

I think someone else did say something about Bertie but probably because I did! lol


I can imagine that Bertie would of been more than happy to have found a way to keep David on the throne. In practical terms I bet most of the family would of gone along with it to keep things 'as is'.

Yeah everything I ever read indicates David was adamant that his wife be titled accordingly...and I've seen it said/read that Wallis actually preferred to stay in the background and didn't really want to marry him.

I think in light of the political leanings of David the family/country dodged a bullet. They got the better man as King in the end.


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  #1265  
Old 08-12-2016, 04:44 AM
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I dont think his political leanings were Nazi, but he was stupid and irresponsible. ANd I think he coudl see nothing wrong with visting Hitler and him and Wallis acting like they were "still royalty", in making such a visit..
I think in a way she was a heaven sent thing for the British establishment because her being the reason for the abdication meant they coudl get rid of David without bringing up his irresponsible side.
And he brought it on himself, becauase his absolute insistence that she was titled Queen etc made compromise impossible...
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  #1266  
Old 08-12-2016, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I dont think his political leanings were Nazi, but he was stupid and irresponsible. ANd I think he coudl see nothing wrong with visting Hitler and him and Wallis acting like they were "still royalty", in making such a visit..
I think in a way she was a heaven sent thing for the British establishment because her being the reason for the abdication meant they coudl get rid of David without bringing up his irresponsible side.
And he brought it on himself, becauase his absolute insistence that she was titled Queen etc made compromise impossible...
I total agree with you she was heaven sent , I don't think David would of been a good king...He would of needed a woman like the Queen Mother to be by his side ..........I think we were better of with the king we had :)
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  #1267  
Old 08-21-2016, 02:55 PM
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And I think that in a way he was punished for being so selfish.. He really wasn't that happy, I'd say after teh Abdication. He loved Wallis and was happy with her, but all the same I think he did know that she did not love him as much, and he was bored and isolated...
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  #1268  
Old 08-23-2016, 10:41 PM
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Did King George V forbid his son, Prince Edward, The Prince of Wales, to bring a woman defiled by divorce, Wallis Simpson, into his royal presence?
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  #1269  
Old 08-23-2016, 10:54 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised...I'm pretty sure I remember a similar statement attributed to his sister-in-law (Queen Elizabeth later the Queen Mother) because of the havoc that situation caused and I've also heard she at least partly blamed the early death of her husband on all the stress of having to become King.

Also I believe at the time divorced persons were not allowed at court.


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  #1270  
Old 08-23-2016, 11:08 PM
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Divorce in 1930s Britain was not the easy thing to obtain as it is in our own societies today and most certainly was very much frowned on by the Church of England of which the monarch is the supreme governor. As Pranter has stated, divorced persons were not allowed at court so there would be no reason whatsoever for George V to make a statement disallowing Wallis to be presented to him. It was pretty much a given that she wasn't "suitable" to mix in royal company.

The avant garde society that both David and Wallis moved in were more accepting of divorce and remarriage and it was within these circles that David and Wallis most felt comfortable.
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  #1271  
Old 08-23-2016, 11:14 PM
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Wallis went through the married version of being a debutante a year or two after settling down in England as Mrs Ernest Simpson, can't remember the date but there's quite a famous photo around of her wearing the obligatory Prince of Wales feathers in her hair (with veil etc) and white gown after being 'presented'.

She would therefore have been entitled to go to Court events such as balls. Apparently quite early in the relationship with the POW he, I don't know whether 'smuggled her in' is the right expression, but she was certainly present at an evening event at BP, so the court official responsible can't have noticed when her name was put on the list!

She wrote in her memoirs that she noticed Queen Mary's eyes on her and the Queen looking thoughtful, so her presence was certainly noted by Edward's mother! She never appeared before the King and Queen again on any occasion.
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  #1272  
Old 08-23-2016, 11:21 PM
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You are absolutely correct Curryong and thanks for that information. I found a photo taken at the presentation.

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...ure-id78969560

Caption under the photo reads "Wallis Simpson's presentation at court to King George V and Queen Mary, Edward's mother and father in 1931 [June 1931 as per Wallis' biography]"

It is interesting to note that although Wallis met the Prince of Wales through his then mistress, Thelma Furness, they did not become involved with each other until 1934. When Wallis was presented at court, there was absolutely no indication of what was to occur in the future.
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  #1273  
Old 08-23-2016, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I wouldn't be surprised...I'm pretty sure I remember a similar statement attributed to his sister-in-law (Queen Elizabeth later the Queen Mother) because of the havoc that situation caused and I've also heard she at least partly blamed the early death of her husband on all the stress of having to become King.

Also I believe at the time divorced persons were not allowed at court.


LaRae

The Queen Mother never had the power to ban Wallis from court - the influence to get others to do so, but not the power herself.

During the reign of George V Wallis wouldn't have been accepted at court, as Osipi stated, because divorced women weren't allowed at court.

During his reign, George VI barred his brother from Britain without permission. He didn't need to ban David from bringing Wallis to court - he effectively banned David from appearing at court at all.

It has been said that Queen Mary refused to ever meet Wallis. The Queen Mother certainly did. There were a slew of royal funerals that the couple would likely have been in attendance (some which I can verify, others which I can't), including that of Queen Mary, the Duke of Kent, the Duchess of Kent (which was David's last engagement), the Princess Royal, and the Earl of Harewood.

Both David and Wallis met with the Queen, Queen Mother, and Prince Charles a number of times in France after the deaths of George VI and the Queen Mother - which makes me think that as much as QEQM disliked Wallis, she put things behind her as time past. David had a royal funeral, which Wallis, QEQM, and QEII attended, and it was the Queen who agreed that the couple should be interred in the Royal Burial Grounds (before the agreement, they had been planning on being buried in Baltimore).
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  #1274  
Old 08-23-2016, 11:56 PM
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Thankyou Osipi. I could remember that photo clearly.

Fast forward to the other incident mentioned in my previous post. In Ziegler's biography of Edward VIII he mentions that in November 1934 an evening party was held at BP in honour of the Duke of Kent's forthcoming marriage to Princess Marina. The POW put Wallis's name on the list. The King scratched it out.

It's not known who reinstated her. One biographer said it was the Duke of Kent. Prince Christopher of Greece was taken up to Wallis by Edward to be introduced. 'She's an American. She's Wonderful!" Edward said. He then introduced Wallis to his mother, hence her remembering the Queen's thoughtful expression.

He would have gone on with Wallis to introduce her to the King but was cut off. 'George V was outraged. "That woman in my house!" he stormed. He gave orders to the Lord Chamberlain that Mrs S was not to be invited to any Silver Jubilee functions nor to the Royal Enclosure at Ascot.'
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  #1275  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:47 AM
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There was an incident where Prince Edward wanted Wallis invited to an event attended by his parents, the King and Queen, and George V was opposed because it was rumored that she and Edward were having an affair. Edward supposedly swore to his father that he and Wallis were not having an affair, Wallis got invited but it eventually came out that Edward and Wallis were having an affair, assuming that it is believable that the King believed his son's denial in the first place.
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  #1276  
Old 08-24-2016, 02:12 AM
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That may refer to the November 1934 event but there isn't any reference in Ziegler to Edward giving his word to his father that he wasn't having an affair with Mrs S, and November 1934 is the only occasion that I know of where she was present with the King and Queen, other than when she was presented in 1931, which was before Edward.
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  #1277  
Old 08-24-2016, 02:37 AM
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Divorcees were presented at Court along with debutantes, including Wallis in 1931. They weren't allowed to be in the Royal Enclosure at Ascot.

The Duke of Windsor didn't attend his brother the Duke of Kent's funeral as that occurred in August 1942 in the midst of war. He was in the Bahamas. The King and Queen supported the Duchess of Kent and Queen Mary.
Various other royalty was present as many of them were head of the Free forces of their countries which were based in Britain. King Peter of Yugoslavia was there, King Haakon and Crown Prince Olav of Norway, for example, and Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands and Prince Bernhard. The Duke of Windsor was represented by Admiral Halsey.

Edward did attend Queen Mary's funeral, alone. He stayed with the Gloucesters for a few days before and after, still burning with resentment that Wallis wasn't by his side. However, considering Queen Mary's opinion of that lady, there might have been the sound of spinning in the coffin if she had been there!

Mary, the Princess Royal, happened to die very suddenly while the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were visiting England. They both attended her funeral.
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  #1278  
Old 08-24-2016, 02:38 AM
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You are absolutely correct Curryong and thanks for that information. I found a photo taken at the presentation.

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...ure-id78969560

Caption under the photo reads "Wallis Simpson's presentation at court to King George V and Queen Mary, Edward's mother and father in 1931 [June 1931 as per Wallis' biography]"

Ity no indication of what was to occur in the future.
however at thtat stage when Wallis was presented at court she was a divorced woman, having been divorced from her first husband. So I assume that while divorced people were not allowed as far as I know to hold official positions at court, and certainly weren't encouraged, there was not a blanket ban. So no, Geo V hardly "banned David from bringing a divorced woman into his presence."
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  #1279  
Old 08-24-2016, 02:46 AM
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Divorcees were presented at Court along with debutantes, including Wallis in 1931. They weren't allowed to be in the Royal Enclosure at Ascot.

T

Mary, the Princess Royal, happened to die very suddenly while the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were visiting England. They both attended her funeral.
Thanks curryong I didn't see this when I posted. I assume that if a woman had been divorced but was now respectably remarried, and the RF allowed it, she could be presented at court. Its possible? that how strictly the King reacted would be according to the situation. Wallis' first marriage broke up because her husband was an alcoholic and was cruel to her and she was then married to Ernest Simpson.. She wasn't the guilty party in her divorce, as far as I know.
So it is possible that these things were decided on a case by case basis. Divorced people weren't allowed in the Royal Enclosure at Ascot, and I think at the time, a divorced person would not be allowed an official position at court and could not become say Prime Minister..
However I believe that the King did blow up about Mrs S and David swore that she wasnt' his mistress .. which may have been technicaly true at the time.
But that's more of a private matter. the king as a fathter could certainly refuse to meet his son's mistress because he disaproved of the affair.
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Old 08-24-2016, 03:00 AM
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I think the attitudes toward those who were considered 'guilty parties' as divorcees, as distinct from those who had perhaps divorced a 'womanising rotter' or 'a bolter' were quite different. In fact even in the Royal Enclosure those who were divorced through no fault of their own did get the occasional ticket. But Yes, it does seem to have been on a case by case basis, and no doubt Wallis would have come under the 'sinned against not sinning' category in 1931.
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