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  #1141  
Old 09-22-2014, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by casualfan View Post
1. You should put "in my opinion" following your assessment of the National Geographic channel, as many (including myself) would totally disagree with your assessment of the quality of their work.

2. Edward/David had a well-documented history of anti-semitism, racist remarks and sympathy for ultra-conservative (some would say "fascist") causes (the references/footnotes on his Wikipedia page are quite extensive).

3. He visited Nazi Germany - performed the Nazi salute - reviewed SS troops. Some of this might be "explainable" because he didn't have a palace staff to guide him, but the man visited in 1937 - he (along with many others, admittedly) had the opportunity to know exactly what the SS were doing. At the very least, is was an ill-advised move in the extreme.

Flashy documentaries notwithstanding, the Duke of Windsor had some deeply troubling views. And while may have toed the line during the war, his personal opinions would have been a serious detriment to morale and unity within the government.


Thank you for being far more polite than I would have been in any reply of mine to the poster above you. Also for posting facts that are fairly well known and available to anyone willing to look for them when it comes to the Duke and his ties to Nazi Germany.

All I thought I was doing was sharing the Information those Documentaries were over at YouTube. Two films that show in detail Edward's ill advised visit to Germany and how his behaviour and conduct during the War should have at the very least had him nailed w/a Court Martial. All of which is fact, can be checked if anyone is interested in doing so and if the thought of a Nazi Sympathizer (at the very least) on the Throne of England during World War II isn't something that chills your blood cold then....I don't know what to say.


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  #1142  
Old 09-22-2014, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair;

It is also always completely overlooked that as King, Edward would have been 'under custody' of the Government and would have been by-steered, corrected, guided, advised by the ministers, the councillors and 'the grey men'.

Wasn't one of the main reasons for the establishment (including his father) to have misgivings about Edwards future role as a King that he constantly chose not to be guided, advised and corrected by courtiers, officials and even fellow members of the royal family?


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  #1143  
Old 09-23-2014, 02:14 AM
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Wasn't one of the main reasons for the establishment (including his father) to have misgivings about Edwards future role as a King that he constantly chose not to be guided, advised and corrected by courtiers, officials and even fellow members of the royal family?
Edward had a careless disregard of the government or any authority. One of the complaints was that papers from the "Red Boxes" were routinely shared with Wallis and were left lying around for anyone to see and coming back with ring marks from drinks, etc. He was definitely not listening to anyone he considered beneath him.
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  #1144  
Old 09-23-2014, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Edward had a careless disregard of the government or any authority. One of the complaints was that papers from the "Red Boxes" were routinely shared with Wallis and were left lying around for anyone to see and coming back with ring marks from drinks, etc. He was definitely not listening to anyone he considered beneath him.
Well put, Marg.
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  #1145  
Old 09-23-2014, 06:36 AM
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Even the greatest nitwit can be steered, guided, directed, assisted, helped. King Edward VIII has shown, as Prince of Wales, to be able to communicate with the public, to have great charisma, to have impatience with rigid court protocol. In that sense he was very much alike the previous Princess of Wales (Lady Diana Spencer).

The rumours of King Edward VIII with a care-free attitude to "The Red Boxes": when these are true then it is the duty of "the grey men" to find a way to ensure that the King is enforced to do his royal duty and no whine about it. Queen Victoria urged that the bureaux of her, the constitutional head of state, and her husband should be attached to each other and in reality it was her German husband who read all contents of "The Red Boxes"... In that sense possible ring marks from drinks are innocent puberal problems.

It is just that the outcome of the "Edward & Wallis"-crisis meant that the former King and especially his spouse had to be portrayed as black as possible, as a sort of "justification" for the Government to enforce abdication because it did not agree with the choice of his love. Until the day of today we have to believe that Edward was a Nazi and that Wallis was a sort of Mata Hari having the King in her spell. I say: to much James Bond. It is interesting too to note that the glorious and powerful Prime Minister Winston Churchill for sure was more convinced of the supremacy of the Aryan race and Western civilization than the King, the powerless puppet in the theatre of state, ever was. These ideas were pretty widespread amongst the upper class and the aristocracy by the way. Everything must be placed in the framework of that time and be regarded in that light. Not taken out-of-context and be judged with today's knowledge about the horrendous crimes of the Nazis and copy-and-pasted to a situation in 1936, the same year where the British proudly participated in the "Nazi Games", the Berlin Olympics.
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  #1146  
Old 09-23-2014, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Even the greatest nitwit can be steered, guided, directed, assisted, helped. King Edward VIII has shown, as Prince of Wales, to be able to communicate with the public, to have great charisma, to have impatience with rigid court protocol. In that sense he was very much alike the previous Princess of Wales (Lady Diana Spencer).

The rumours of King Edward VIII with a care-free attitude to "The Red Boxes": when these are true then it is the duty of "the grey men" to find a way to ensure that the King is enforced to do his royal duty and no whine about it. Queen Victoria urged that the bureaux of her, the constitutional head of state, and her husband should be attached to each other and in reality it was her German husband who read all contents of "The Red Boxes"... In that sense possible ring marks from drinks are innocent puberal problems.

It is just that the outcome of the "Edward & Wallis"-crisis meant that the former King and especially his spouse had to be portrayed as black as possible, as a sort of "justification" for the Government to enforce abdication because it did not agree with the choice of his love. Until the day of today we have to believe that Edward was a Nazi and that Wallis was a sort of Mata Hari having the King in her spell. I say: to much James Bond. It is interesting too to note that the glorious and powerful Prime Minister Winston Churchill for sure was more convinced of the supremacy of the Aryan race and Western civilization than the King, the powerless puppet in the theatre of state, ever was. These ideas were pretty widespread amongst the upper class and the aristocracy by the way. Everything must be placed in the framework of that time and be regarded in that light. Not taken out-of-context and be judged with today's knowledge about the horrendous crimes of the Nazis and copy-and-pasted to a situation in 1936, the same year where the British proudly participated in the "Nazi Games", the Berlin Olympics.

Completely and utterly disagree with you. Either Edward's actions are "taken out of context" or his courtiers had the responsibility to shield and protect him. Not sure why you are so quick to absolve Edward of his responsibility and duty to serve the British people, which is what he was supposed to do.

Also, there is a huge difference between participating in an international sporting event like the Olympics and visiting Nazi Germany on a personal tour. The authorities and athletes didn't have to "Heil Hitler" in 1936 and didn't, but the Duke of Windsor didn't have to salute Hitler and DID.

Finally, of course racist sentiments prevailed in the halls of power during the Second World War (and they still do), but that does NOT excuse Edward VIII or his actions. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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  #1147  
Old 09-24-2014, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Even the greatest nitwit can be steered, guided, directed, assisted, helped. King Edward VIII has shown, as Prince of Wales, to be able to communicate with the public, to have great charisma, to have impatience with rigid court protocol. In that sense he was very much alike the previous Princess of Wales (Lady Diana Spencer).

The rumours of King Edward VIII with a care-free attitude to "The Red Boxes": when these are true then it is the duty of "the grey men" to find a way to ensure that the King is enforced to do his royal duty and no whine about it. Queen Victoria urged that the bureaux of her, the constitutional head of state, and her husband should be attached to each other and in reality it was her German husband who read all contents of "The Red Boxes"... In that sense possible ring marks from drinks are innocent puberal problems.

It is just that the outcome of the "Edward & Wallis"-crisis meant that the former King and especially his spouse had to be portrayed as black as possible, as a sort of "justification" for the Government to enforce abdication because it did not agree with the choice of his love. Until the day of today we have to believe that Edward was a Nazi and that Wallis was a sort of Mata Hari having the King in her spell. I say: to much James Bond. It is interesting too to note that the glorious and powerful Prime Minister Winston Churchill for sure was more convinced of the supremacy of the Aryan race and Western civilization than the King, the powerless puppet in the theatre of state, ever was. These ideas were pretty widespread amongst the upper class and the aristocracy by the way. Everything must be placed in the framework of that time and be regarded in that light. Not taken out-of-context and be judged with today's knowledge about the horrendous crimes of the Nazis and copy-and-pasted to a situation in 1936, the same year where the British proudly participated in the "Nazi Games", the Berlin Olympics.

You know, I have an extra White Cane for just in case situations, but I'm thinking you need it worse than me. How anyone can look back on all that has come out, but especially the last ten years, from the various declassified files on the Duke's actions before and during the War and toss it off as propaganda from the Windsor haters. Not to mention attempting to justify the Visit to Nazi Germany the way you have tried to do...Well, that IMO is a far worse case of blindness than my eye disease is.

Scarier too.




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  #1148  
Old 09-24-2014, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiggersk8 View Post
You know, I have an extra White Cane for just in case situations, but I'm thinking you need it worse than me. How anyone can look back on all that has come out, but especially the last ten years, from the various declassified files on the Duke's actions before and during the War and toss it off as propaganda from the Windsor haters. Not to mention attempting to justify the Visit to Nazi Germany the way you have tried to do...Well, that IMO is a far worse case of blindness than my eye disease is.

Scarier too.
To be honest here, back in the 30s when Hitler's Third Reich was just gaining momentum, there were many that thought the philosophy behind Hitler's ideals were well presented and made sense. We have to remember too that Hitler, himself, was a very charismatic person and quite a few really liked the man. The horrors and atrocities actually sprang up much later on during the war and were not openly known to the masses and if I'm not mistaken, was very much covert and kept under wraps.
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  #1149  
Old 09-24-2014, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
To be honest here, back in the 30s when Hitler's Third Reich was just gaining momentum, there were many that thought the philosophy behind Hitler's ideals were well presented and made sense. We have to remember too that Hitler, himself, was a very charismatic person and quite a few really liked the man. The horrors and atrocities actually sprang up much later on during the war and were not openly known to the masses and if I'm not mistaken, was very much covert and kept under wraps.
He stated in his book, Mein Kampf, that he intended to annihilate the Jews. Kristall Nacht was November 1938, when they burned Synagogues all over Germany and beat and killed thousands of Jews. Jews were forced out of many German cities and when Anschluss took place, 1938, before the war, Jews were beaten and killed in Austria. The Nuremberg Laws, 1935, forbade Jews from schools, being able to work and access to public places, such as parks, theatres, stores. How covert and under wraps do you think this was? What have you read about these times?
Where did you get these ideas?
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  #1150  
Old 09-25-2014, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
He stated in his book, Mein Kampf, that he intended to annihilate the Jews. Kristall Nacht was November 1938, when they burned Synagogues all over Germany and beat and killed thousands of Jews. Jews were forced out of many German cities and when Anschluss took place, 1938, before the war, Jews were beaten and killed in Austria. The Nuremberg Laws, 1935, forbade Jews from schools, being able to work and access to public places, such as parks, theatres, stores. How covert and under wraps do you think this was? What have you read about these times?
Where did you get these ideas?
Perhaps I'm not as well informed about this as I thought I did and what you state is in fact, what happened. Mostly I was referring to the secret science projects and the gas chambers and mass graves within the concentration camps that were not that well known until after the war ended. Thanks for correcting me on these points.
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  #1151  
Old 09-25-2014, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Even the greatest nitwit can be steered, guided, directed, assisted, helped. King Edward VIII has shown, as Prince of Wales, to be able to communicate with the public, to have great charisma, to have impatience with rigid court protocol. In that sense he was very much alike the previous Princess of Wales (Lady Diana Spencer).
Nobody said he wasn't charismatic. Hell, that was the whole problem! He believed his own press. His own father, the King couldn't get him to toe the line. Do you think a a little grey, green or purple man could have managed him better? A better question is why?

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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The rumours of King Edward VIII with a care-free attitude to "The Red Boxes": when these are true then it is the duty of "the grey men" to find a way to ensure that the King is enforced to do his royal duty and no whine about it. Queen Victoria urged that the bureaux of her, the constitutional head of state, and her husband should be attached to each other and in reality it was her German husband who read all contents of "The Red Boxes"... In that sense possible ring marks from drinks are innocent puberal problems.
You can witter as you may but it wasn't just that he shared with Wallis, he just plain left things lying around. He was arrogant, indisceet and pretty hard to handle. Arguments involving your own discussion parameters render Queen Victoria and her huband situation irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It is just that the outcome of the "Edward & Wallis"-crisis meant that the former King and especially his spouse had to be portrayed as black as possible, as a sort of "justification" for the Government to enforce abdication because it did not agree with the choice of his love.
They didn't have to be protrayed as black at all. If you intend to put things in their correct 'time and place' then you would know that there was no way in hell that the government would have allowed him to marry his twice married and soon to be twice divorced Mistress. Come on, old school tie, chin chin, one doesn't take one's mistress to his mother's home, It's just not done old boy. Rightly or wrongly, a divorced woman was a pariah in those times, except within the sort of circles Edward moved. High society may have accepted her but the common man and woman never, ever would . . . and they were the people that voted. A secondary and interesting point would have been where would the Church of England stood. There is no way in God's green earth that the Coronation wouldn't have run into a very large and immoveable obstacle.

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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Until the day of today we have to believe that Edward was a Nazi and that Wallis was a sort of Mata Hari having the King in her spell. I say: to much James Bond. It is interesting too to note that the glorious and powerful Prime Minister Winston Churchill for sure was more convinced of the supremacy of the Aryan race and Western civilization than the King, the powerless puppet in the theatre of state, ever was. These ideas were pretty widespread amongst the upper class and the aristocracy by the way. Everything must be placed in the framework of that time and be regarded in that light. Not taken out-of-context and be judged with today's knowledge about the horrendous crimes of the Nazis and copy-and-pasted to a situation in 1936, the same year where the British proudly participated in the "Nazi Games", the Berlin Olympics.
Good heavens, religeous and racial bigotry flourished in that time, along with the psuedo science of eugenics. And those in high society, aristocracy and royalty were all embued with a liberal dose of entitlement and superior snobbery. Hitler merely took it a step further, and it is that step that overshadows Edward and Wallis.

But apart from his much reported 1937 visit to Nazi Germany, which led people to look back and wonder, he was privvy to things such as the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 and further ordinances thereafter, courtesy of the Red Boxes. Still, against government advice, they visited Germany as a Monarch without a throne lauded and feted where ever they went. It is lucky the real "dirt" wasn't declassified for 50 years and sometimes even later and it wouldn't surprise me if there were still stuff in hiding.

Does looking back with the advantage of 20/20 hindsight make what happened any less real? Of course it doesn't but it sure puts a whole new spin on those involved. Your contention that Edward and Wallis were demonised is interesting but I am sure there is pretty strong evidence to support the theory that, had the Nazis had taken the UK, Edward would have been back on the throne with Wallis at his side.
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  #1152  
Old 09-25-2014, 10:07 AM
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Perhaps I'm not as well informed about this as I thought I did and what you state is in fact, what happened. Mostly I was referring to the secret science projects and the gas chambers and mass graves within the concentration camps that were not that well known until after the war ended. Thanks for correcting me on these points.

No, all of these were pretty well known, especially by people in power and with access to info. If you didn't know, you didn't want to know. What was not known was perhaps the scale of the murder committed.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/a...uleId=10005182
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  #1154  
Old 02-24-2015, 11:19 AM
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*gasp* One can only hope Queen Mary never saw this.
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  #1155  
Old 02-24-2015, 11:39 AM
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*gasp* One can only hope Queen Mary never saw this.
I hope she didn't either. She'd definitely be needing the smelling salts.

Maybe its just me but this photo seems to point out that what being King to Edward VIII was all about the pomp, circumstance and glory of the role and very little about duty, loyalty and service to the Crown. It just seems too much like play acting to be photographed in this matter with the actual items of importance of the Order of the Garter (collar and garter) missing.
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  #1156  
Old 02-24-2015, 05:21 PM
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HELLO! Exclusive: look inside secret photo albums of abdicated King Edward and Wallis Simpson-

HELLO! TV, Celebrity videos, fashion videos and more at helloonline.com< - HELLO! Exclusive: look inside secret photo albums of abdicated King Edward and Wallis Simpson

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I hope she didn't either. She'd definitely be needing the smelling salts.

Maybe its just me but this photo seems to point out that what being King to Edward VIII was all about the pomp, circumstance and glory of the role and very little about duty, loyalty and service to the Crown. It just seems too much like play acting to be photographed in this matter with the actual items of importance of the Order of the Garter (collar and garter) missing.
I think his royal life would've been much more pleasant, if his parents had been kinder to him. He was a very popular Prince of Wales, but I think he was a rather lonely figure without Wallis to share in his royal role.
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  #1157  
Old 02-24-2015, 05:51 PM
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I wonder why his gardener has waited all these years to reveal the 3 private photo albums of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor?
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  #1158  
Old 02-24-2015, 08:09 PM
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I think his royal life would've been much more pleasant, if his parents had been kinder to him. He was a very popular Prince of Wales, but I think he was a rather lonely figure without Wallis to share in his royal role.
He lived without Wallis for about 40 years, enjoying the company of various married women, never making a real effort to find a wife for himself. From early childhood he was aware of what his life would be, and yet, he did not prepare himself.

He was very good at what he called 'princing', basically parading around and charming people, but he failed to grasp what it meant to be the monarch. He was too cowardly to withdraw while his father lived, and he decided that what he wanted was more important than anything else in life. He abandoned his family and his country, and he thrust what should have been his responsibilities upon his younger brother's family.

Many of us have unpleasant lives, but we shoulder our responsibilities with dignity and move forward hoping for the best.

Lots of people are unable to marry the one they love- family issues, money problems, what have you. Sometimes the one you love is already married. People- good people- make the best of life regardless of whether they get exactly what they want. (See the Rolling Stones' "Satisfaction" for details!)

His life wound up being rather paltry and pathetic- he was always longing for his past glory, and his wife was known to cheat on him. He would have made a terrible King for that era. Things worked out for the best, but not for him. Boo hoo.
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  #1159  
Old 02-24-2015, 09:44 PM
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Perhaps he wants to leave money to his family.

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I wonder why his gardener has waited all these years to reveal the 3 private photo albums of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor?
Yes, I agree. The robes are photographed completely out of context. What boggles my mind is that, although he left England and went into exile very soon after signing the Instrument of Abdication, he took his robes with him. It seems that he had lots of time to pack--or should I say--had lots of packing done for him. This indicates that he was prepared for his exile.

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Maybe its just me but this photo seems to point out that what being King to Edward VIII was all about the pomp, circumstance and glory of the role and very little about duty, loyalty and service to the Crown. It just seems too much like play acting to be photographed in this matter with the actual items of importance of the Order of the Garter (collar and garter) missing.
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:41 AM
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I find it odd that the gardener was 'given' the photo albums.

In the DM story, the gardener states Edward gave him the albums later in the article he states Wallis gave them to him after Edward's death.

I have never seen these pictures and thought they were very interesting. I did like the dog with Wallis.

What became of Edward's Order of the Garter Robe?

Was the photo taken to be sent to someone?

When was the photo taken? What was happening in the U.K? Was this Edward's way of trying to connect with what was happening in the U.K?

Did he want to remember being part of the Order of Garter before throwing away the robe?
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