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  #861  
Old 08-06-2011, 06:54 AM
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I have the impression that you think you are the only teacher and historian on this forum. As to your assessment, I do abhor and find disgusting anyone who praises this person or, I nearly forgot, called him brave.
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  #862  
Old 08-06-2011, 07:59 AM
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Iluvbertie, over countless threads I and many others have made attempts to explain Edwards stance-our collective views are many and varied. My own viewpoint is psychological because that is where my understanding comes from, but I'm fully aware that not everybody will agree with my views. I do believe that for every "Why?" there can be numerous answers, one of which is likely to be right, the others, even if they are wrong can give rise to interesting debate.
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  #863  
Old 08-06-2011, 08:25 AM
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Okay its time to move on from discussing the good and bad characteristics of Adolf Hitler and get back on topic with the Duke and Duchess of Windsor.
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  #864  
Old 08-06-2011, 09:36 PM
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Iluvbertie, I see where you are coming from and I agree with your stance. Hitler was an evil man, but he wasn't always like there. You just have to accept that there are people who don't want to see the why or what came before the evil. Thankfully there seems to still be a balance between the people who don't want to look deeper, and those who live off of pulling back the layers.
As for Wallis and Edward, this idiocy about her being a man is ridiculous. Why are people so ignorant as to think that a man can only give up his kingdom for a supermodel?History is littered with famous women in history have not been what you would describe as "beautiful" yet they still had the ability to drive a man crazy.
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  #865  
Old 08-07-2011, 07:40 AM
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XeniaCasaraghi, I would love to know where you see your own position between "the people who don't want to look deeper, and those who live off of pulling back the layers"!!!! and how you believe it possible "to see the why or what came before the evil" without removing layers? Your words suggest little regard for this.

Wallis Simpson's gender!!! A debate which has been running for years. In fact, the author of this latest offering could have used some of my own words from this thread-good to know one person agrees with my theories!!! We can only speculate, but I believe there to be grounds for thinking that she may have been "different"-and may have been a contributary factor in why she "clicked" with David. To label her as "male" is, IMO, sensationalist, nothing more. However, transgender/intersex COULD possibly apply. I've always had difficulty with believing stories of her amazing sexual prowess and how she learned it, to me she has seemed too fastidious to have much interest in such pursuits, that any flirtatiousness was superficial and at heart she was cold and essentially private. If any of what we read of David is true, he would have fitted her physicality and matched her psychology far better than either of her previous husbands. I'm not "one of those ignorant enough to believe a man would only give up a kingdom for a supermodel", but clearly, for David, there must have been something quite extraordinary about her-perhaps, along with many other things, it was her gender.
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  #866  
Old 08-08-2011, 04:22 AM
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The truth about Mrs Simpson: Why Wallis never wanted to marry her king | Mail Online

Another book.
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  #867  
Old 08-08-2011, 04:38 AM
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Fascinating article
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  #868  
Old 08-08-2011, 04:56 PM
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Fascinating article
I never knew the Duchess continued to write to her ex-husband. This article rings true to me about Edward's state of mind (indeed, most biographers note that he threatened suicide when talking to Wallis during the crisis) and it seems that only someone not in love with the man would humiliate him with petty insults. If it is true, then the woman played the game for too long and it cost her a husband she loved. Pity.
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  #869  
Old 08-08-2011, 05:06 PM
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Both of the Duchess's previous marriages were of short duration, I believe? She remained married to The Duke I believe for almost 40 years before his death? That speaks volumes to me about whether or not she loved the man. Actions and behaviors ALWAYS speak much louder than words ever could.
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  #870  
Old 08-08-2011, 05:13 PM
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Both of the Duchess's previous marriages were of short duration, I believe? She remained married to The Duke I believe for almost 40 years before his death? That speaks volumes to me about whether or not she loved the man. Actions and behaviors ALWAYS speak much louder than words ever could.
My dear Bundtrock,

Not always. From what I've read, Wallis was horrified when Edward first broached marrying her. After everything occurred and after he gave up the throne, she may have felt that she had to get married. She undoubtedly enjoyed the trappings and perks that went with being married to royalty but this marriage alone is not proof positive that she loved Edward.

On the other hand, I also have read that Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother remarked that the Duke and Duchess of Windsor had a good marriage and loved one another. I guess this matter is up for differing viewpoints.
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  #871  
Old 08-08-2011, 05:59 PM
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My dear Bundtrock,

Not always. From what I've read, Wallis was horrified when Edward first broached marrying her. After everything occurred and after he gave up the throne, she may have felt that she had to get married. She undoubtedly enjoyed the trappings and perks that went with being married to royalty but this marriage alone is not proof positive that she loved Edward.

On the other hand, I also have read that Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother remarked that the Duke and Duchess of Windsor had a good marriage and loved one another. I guess this matter is up for differing viewpoints.
The Duchess certainly had no problem whatsoever seeking two previous divorces prior to her third marriage in 1937, I fail to see why she would have any hesitation in getting a third one had she not been content?
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  #872  
Old 08-08-2011, 06:07 PM
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Is Charles selfish as well because he refused to give up the woman he loved, or is he even more selfish because not only did he refuse to give her up but he also refused to give up his inherited rights?

Apples and oranges.

Yes, Charles refused to give up the woman he loved. But THAT is not what distinguishes Edward VIII from Charles. What separates them is that Charles did not give up his inherited rights and duties. I suspect he would have given up Camilla before he gave up his duty. When push came to shove, the Duke of Windsor found his own personal happiness more important than the many millions of people over whom he held titular leadership. Diana, Princess of Wales suffered the same appalling disease. Edward, as it turns out, was ahead of his time.
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  #873  
Old 08-08-2011, 06:10 PM
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Asking those questions is not the same thing as praising one of the greatest war criminals in human history.
How was she praising him?
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  #874  
Old 08-08-2011, 06:15 PM
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The Duchess certainly had no problem whatsoever seeking two previous divorces prior to her third marriage in 1937, I fail to see why she would have any hesitation in getting a third one had she not been content?
But according to the article, it was Ernest who sought the divorce, not Wallis. Because he fell in love with her friend.
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  #875  
Old 08-08-2011, 06:38 PM
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But according to the article, it was Ernest who sought the divorce, not Wallis. Because he fell in love with her friend.
And what difference would that make? She still would be a twice divorced woman in the mid 1930s, what reason would she have for not seeking a third divorce herself, if she was unhappy? Certainly it could do no further damage to her reputation, apparently she did not care for that aspect, she cavorted openly with the Prince of Wales / King Edward VIII while still married to her second husband anyway?
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  #876  
Old 08-08-2011, 07:25 PM
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The Duchess certainly had no problem whatsoever seeking two previous divorces prior to her third marriage in 1937, I fail to see why she would have any hesitation in getting a third one had she not been content?
Perhaps the idea of becoming the most hated woman in the world was not appealing to her. Had she divorced a man who gave up the throne for her even the cafe society they socialized with would have closed their doors to her.
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  #877  
Old 08-08-2011, 08:03 PM
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If I recall correctly, Edward and Ernest had already had a discussion about ending the Simpson marriage without Wallis prior knowledge and/or consent. Can you imagine it...two men deciding to end her marriage? What cheek!

I think Edward mentioned marriage to Wallis but she might not have taken him seriously. I think Wallis cared for Edward but without a doubt he loved her more. I believe there is a saying...there is a loved and a beloved. Well, Wallis was the beloved.

I read in one of many Wallis and Edward books that she stated, it was hard living out the romance of the century. But by the time Edward died, she was equally as devoted to him as he was to her.
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  #878  
Old 08-08-2011, 08:09 PM
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The Duchess certainly had no problem whatsoever seeking two previous divorces prior to her third marriage in 1937, I fail to see why she would have any hesitation in getting a third one had she not been content?
I tend to go with what the article said that as she was getting older, beaus would be fewer and harder to find than when she was younger. A woman hits 40 and it naturally starts to sink in she's not a spring chicken anymore and her options are dwindling down.

By the time that their relationship went public, she opted out for the marriage and I really do think they were happy together.
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  #879  
Old 08-08-2011, 08:57 PM
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Why does Wallis' gender have to be questioned? Because she wasn't beautiful, had a masculine face and never had children? I just think it's quite a leap to start questioning her gender.
As for WnE, yes I do think they loved each other and were happy with each other; she was definitely the less dependent of the two though. I wonder if a part of Edwards adoration stemmed from her being his catalyst to give up being king and he was greatful to her for that?
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  #880  
Old 08-08-2011, 11:29 PM
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And what difference would that make? She still would be a twice divorced woman in the mid 1930s, what reason would she have for not seeking a third divorce herself, if she was unhappy? Certainly it could do no further damage to her reputation, apparently she did not care for that aspect, she cavorted openly with the Prince of Wales / King Edward VIII while still married to her second husband anyway?
I think the point of the article was that Wallis was not keen on marrying the (former) King of England. From what I have read in many biographies, this is not such a stretch and it appears to me that Edward was besotted with her, not the other way around. You seem to think that Wallis shed her husbands readily but I think husband #1 was abusive to her, but husband #2 was not. If the article is correct, then Wallis was not the one who pressed for the divorce in order to marry Edward.

Now, did she become fond of Edward or even love him? I believe so but I think she was an intelligent woman and knowingly became involved with him knowing full well that marriage was not in the future, not while he was King anyway. Events happened and I think she became swept up in them. Is this so hard to believe? I don't believe that this was the romance of the century.
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