Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986)

[Iluvbertie]

not to be Political but as a FORMER Monarch could he have been tried as a War Criminal

For what crimes?

Had he committed treason there is no reason why he couldn't have been charged in Britain with that crime but a war criminal - I don't think you could accuse him of crimes against humanity, waging aggressive war, crimes against peace or plan war crimes - these were the charges against those who stood trial at Nuremburg.

Of course many people could be charged with these crimes - from both sides (especially amongst the Soviets, but also French, British, US troops etc) but they were on the winning side - so no charges.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

I don't think he was guilty of any war crimes... certainly, as you said, Iluvbertie, there were plenty who committed far more odious acts that the Duke of Windsor did.
David was just not cut out to be a monarch - he was too selfish. His whole life was centered on what it took to make him to happy...
It's summed up best by one the officers on the Duke's staff... as the Germans were invading France and the English were falling back... instead of evacuating with his men, then Duke and Duchess hauled tail to Biarritz.. the officer remarked in effect, of the Duke's actions, "....He deserted his country in 1936, why should we be surprised he's deserting his post now...."
I'm sure Wallis was behind the run to the south of France.... where she would be able to be contact with her Nazi & Fascist friends and keep them abreast of as much English activity as possible..

 

[Iluvbertie]

I don't think she would have anything to tell them though - if she ever would have considered doing so. What could she tell them? That the British army was retreating - well they knew that and they knew they had to make for the coast opposite Britain to have any hope of rescue.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I think the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were foolish about their respect and attitude towards fascism but i don't think they were actively encouraging or abetting the Axis powers during the war. Just being foolish and ill informed does not make them traitors.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I don't have a problem so much with them having respect to the fascist regime in the mid-30s as many people did - they weren't alone - but I do think they should have changed their views earlier than they did.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I don't have a problem so much with them having respect to the fascist regime in the mid-30s as many people did - they weren't alone - but I do think they should have changed their views earlier than they did.

I agree -- many people shared their views. The sad thing is despite evidence to the contrary, many stubborn people still believed fascism would solve the world's woes and refused to believe otherwise.

 

[HM Queen Catherine]

I think the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were foolish about their respect and attitude towards fascism but i don't think they were actively encouraging or abetting the Axis powers during the war. Just being foolish and ill informed does not make them traitors.

And let's not forget, after Britain heard that the Duke may have leaked information to the other side, they promptly dispatched him and the Duchess to the Bahamas where they spent their time until the war ended.

It was the only occasion the Duke of Windsor held a British appointment, and the only reason for it was to get him out of Europe and prevent him from doing damage to the war effort, unwittingly or not.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Agreed, HM Queen Catherine!
And if the British Government and later the US Government didn't have reason to suspect both the Duke and Wallis.... they why were they watched so closely and always under so much suspect?
Didn't the US Government just release the contents of the FBI's file on them?

 

[HM Queen Catherine]

According to the FBI, they were told by Duke Carl Alexander of Württemburg that Wallis had been the lover of Joachim von Ribbentrop, who was a Nazi leader. Whether this is true or not is a matter of debate, but it alarmed the US government enough to keep and eye on her - and by extension on the Duke.

I don't know if they were monitoring her before this, but she continued to entertain her friends in the fascist movement even after the outbreak of the war.. and while her husband was holding a military post in the British Army.

I have not read the FBI files, but I do believe they have been released.

 

[Zonk]

Well her behavior was enough that the British Secret Police were watching her (and by extension the Duke) prior to the marriage.

And then there was the plot to kidnap the couple when they were in Spain/Portugal.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Didn't Hitler want to kidnap them to set the Duke up as a puppet king when Hitler "won"....? Hitler really was a warped individual.
The files have been released, from what I have been able to gather. Von Ribbentrop is mentioned in them... as is the Mussolini's son-in-law, whom Wallis was reported to be linked with.

 

[Zonk]

Yes, I believe Hitler did want that.

And if I recall correctly, didn't David give a speech or in some way let it be known that he wouldn't have a problem taking over from his brother if that was the case? That by itself is treason I believe.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Yes, I believe Hitler did want that.

And if I recall correctly, didn't David give a speech or in some way let it be known that he wouldn't have a problem taking over from his brother if that was the case? That by itself is treason I believe.

I think you are right, Zonk. I really have to find that National Geographic special I watched the other day...
It was called "Britain's Nazi King" or something like that... I am sure On Demand has it & I'll watch it tomorrow and take notes!!

 

[Zonk]

Its amazing how he wondered why the BRF (namely the King and Queen Elizabeth) didn't want him back in the country undermining them.

I mean, really!

 

[Katrianna]

It is true that the Nazi's had promised David that when Great Britain was conquered by Germany, David would be reinstated to the Throne. David, for his part, robustly agreed. The British Govt. and King George were aware of the coziness between the couple and Nazi regime and that's part of the reason David was made Governor of the Bahamas to get the couple as far away from Britain and Europe as possible, but to be able to keep wraps on them.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

According the "Britain's Nazi King", a National Geographic documentary... British Intelligence began trailing David (then PofW) and Wallis as early as 1935... Wallis was supposed to have had an affair with a Mr Trundle, a car salesman, at the beginning of her affair with the PofW. Also, Joachim von Ribbentropp was suppose to have sent Wallis 17 carnations every day while he was in London - as a reminder of the number of times they slept together.
The US government has officially released a 200+ page file on the Windsors - and was pretty descriptive about some of the Duke and Wallis' associated: Lady Emerald Cunard, a Mr Moseley (leader of the British Fascist movement).....

(More to come - I had to get back to work)

 

[Royal Fan]

It was good documentary hed have made a TERRIBLE Monarch

 

[EmpressRouge]

It seems like those who don't know much about the monarchy either see their story as a great love story, or that Wallis was a total gold digger. They don't know how selfish Edward and childish was. I've heard Wallis treated him more like a son, controlling him in a way Queen Mary never could it seems. At the same time, like they mentioned in "The King's Speech," Wallis was rumored to have a "special" hold on him with her, ahem, "skills."

 

[Duchessmary]

Wallis was indeed clever and manipulating, I agree. She was exactly the sort of woman David craved. The funny thing was, David was a terrific Prince of Wales and a crummy King.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

It seems like those who don't know much about the monarchy either see their story as a great love story, or that Wallis was a total gold digger. They don't know how selfish Edward and childish was. I've heard Wallis treated him more like a son, controlling him in a way Queen Mary never could it seems. At the same time, like they mentioned in "The King's Speech," Wallis was rumored to have a "special" hold on him with her, ahem, "skills."

Well stated....."They don't know how selfish Edward and childish was."

And there are some of us who know a good deal about the subject who still think, among the many descriptive terms for her, she was a gold digger!

 

[Zonk]

Oh I definitely think she was a gold digger.

She was quite prepared to remain Mrs. Simpson, the power behind the throne when David became King. I think she either knew her days were over when he became King or married someone suitable. She didn't have a problem with the jewels and the power of being known as the King's "friend."

And I agree, that David was a great Prince of Wales and a horrible King. He couldn't see anything beyond Wallis. He wanted the privilege and money associated with his birthright but didn't have time for the "minor things" associated with his birthright. Couldn't open a facility in Abderdeen but could ride into town to pick up Wallis at the train. What a mess he was. And he couldn't see past what was due Wallis (her HRH)...couldn't look at the big picture.

 

[Russophile]

She was quite prepared to remain Mrs. Simpson, the power behind the throne when David became King. I think she either knew her days were over when he became King or married someone suitable. She didn't have a problem with the jewels and the power of being known as the King's "friend."

.

I agree, and when he abdicated to marry "The woman I love" what in the world was she supposed to do? Dump him?

 

[Zonk]

I agree, and when he abdicated to marry "The woman I love" what in the world was she supposed to do? Dump him?

Well, don't forget he already talked to her husband about the end of their (Ernest and Wallis) marriage and the beginning of theirs (Wallis and David). Which unless she and David had that discussion before and they agreed that they wanted to marry and they agreed that David should talk to Ernest (and I don't believe that they did) thats kind of arrogant to have that discussion IMO.

 

[Lenora]

I don't think that Wallis was so evil creature or that she was connected to Nazis,I just believe she was not so deep person,she was a kind of "living-today".I really feel pity for her when I remember her latest saddest years of life,after the Duke's death.It would have been better for her if she had adopted a child,she wouldn't have suffered of such a great solitude.
I can't wait to watch Madonna's movie about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor.I wonder when it will be released.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

The US government has officially released a 200+ page file on the Windsors - and was pretty descriptive about some of the Duke and Wallis' associated: Lady Emerald Cunard, a Mr Moseley (leader of the British Fascist movement).....

(More to come - I had to get back to work)

Was this the same Mosley who married Diana Mitford Guinness, the great beauty of her generation?

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Was this the same Mosley who married Diana Mitford Guinness, the great beauty of her generation?

YES! One in the same.. she was married to Sir Oswald Mosely, leader of the British Fascists - her second marriage, in 1936, took place at the home of Joseph Goebbels, with Hitler as guest of honour.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Well, don't forget he already talked to her husband about the end of their (Ernest and Wallis) marriage and the beginning of theirs (Wallis and David). Which unless she and David had that discussion before and they agreed that they wanted to marry and they agreed that David should talk to Ernest (and I don't believe that they did) thats kind of arrogant to have that discussion IMO.

Wallis wrote David a letter, not after he became king, calling their affair off....
a play to get her more entrenched, I think!

 

[Zonk]

Wallis wrote David a letter, not after he became king, calling their affair off....
a play to get her more entrenched, I think!

I kind of think that was a fake out move. Her "letter" was a reaction to Hardinge (or maybe someone else) suggesting the story of the David Wallis affair was getting ready to break in the English press and Hardinge (or maybe it was someone else) That Wallis should go abroad without delay.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Definitely a move to entrench her more in David - the man who has it all can't have this woman..... she was crafty & David so dim-witted.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Well, don't forget he already talked to her husband about the end of their (Ernest and Wallis) marriage and the beginning of theirs (Wallis and David). Which unless she and David had that discussion before and they agreed that they wanted to marry and they agreed that David should talk to Ernest (and I don't believe that they did) thats kind of arrogant to have that discussion IMO.

An agreement was made with Ernest Simpson and he was paid an agreed amount of equiv. $100,000 (lot of money in those times) to finalize the divorce.