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  #401  
Old 05-15-2009, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
Still King, and free to keep Wallis as his mistress, which incidentally she said in her memoirs she was quite happy about.
I don't think he could have remained as king if the party in power had just fought an election on the question of who he should marry and the party had won and the King had lost.

He would have to have abdicated at that point and very well may have ended the monarchy as the people would have been voting directly on an issue to do with the monarch and, in my scenario, chosen parliament.

The whole situation would have put the king at the centre of politics where the monarch is not allowed to be - they aren't to be the centre of an election campaign.
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  #402  
Old 05-15-2009, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Wisteria
Edward VIII could have married Wallis if he had only waited until he was crowned, in fact some friends advised him to do that. Once he was King he could have married anyone he liked, all he had to do was to wait a few months more but he was was too, shall we say, pig headed to take that advice and we all know what happened next. He and Wallis suffered the consequences of his impatience.
I think, like everything esle in history, the situation has to be viewed and assessed "in it's time and place".

While the Prince of Wales was loved and even admired for his racey lifestyle I don't think the idea of him actually marrying Wallis crossed anyone's mind but Edward. I think the government were taken by surprise, shocked even, that the King wanted Wallis as his Queen. Why would it, she was the King's mistress, a twice divorced woman and in the process of getting a third.

If anyone seriously thought that was ever going to happen they were living in la la land. The people expected their King to marry in a riot of pomp and circumstance. Carriages carrying the entire Royal faimily, guests including the royalty of Europe and Heads of state. The grandest occassion short of the Coronation but, there is no way the leader of the Church of England, a Church that the King would be head of, could pull that off. The Cathedral Doors would have remained resolutely closed to them. One only has to remember that in this brave new "touchy, feely" 21st Century, the current PofW had to settle for a downscale semi-private "Blessing" as both parties were divorcees.

Whilst their politics were definitely suspect and the government had severe reservations about how "sound" he was, Wallis' Nazi sympathies were common knowledge and even shared by a large number of the aristocracy at this time. However, in the late 1930's, as with his marriage, his Coronation would have had to have been presided over by the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury and the leader of the Church of England, which Edward, as King, would be the head.

In point of fact I couldn't see the Arch-Bishop crowning her as consort. It would never happen and that would have precipitated a constitutional crisis that Winston Churchill and his government would not have been able to prevent. They had, and still have, no power whatsoever, to compell the Church to do anything at all. In that case in am sure the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church would have stood resolutely against any marriage.
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  #403  
Old 05-15-2009, 01:36 PM
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I think it's very sad, though, that it was considered OK for him to marry some "suitable" aristocrat or princess for public purposes while keeping a mistress. That's every bit as much of a flouting of the marriage vows as the "till death us do part" repeat performance.

There have been so many cases, and not just in Britain, where it's been deemed acceptable for princes to live with divorcees or commoners but as soon as they want to marry them they get chucked out of the royal family.

Actually from reading memoirs at the time, there almost seemed to be some gratitude toward Mrs Simpson for providing the excuse for an abdication; a lot of the senior royal aides had been fed up with Edward from his time as Prince of Wales and were dreading having to serve him during his reign.
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  #404  
Old 05-15-2009, 08:37 PM
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That's my opinion as well. Edward VIII was supposed to have sent back official papers with drink-glass stains on them, and they were left around where anybody could read them. This isn't the behaviour of someone who understood how serious his new role was.

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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Actually from reading memoirs at the time, there almost seemed to be some gratitude toward Mrs Simpson for providing the excuse for an abdication; a lot of the senior royal aides had been fed up with Edward from his time as Prince of Wales and were dreading having to serve him during his reign.
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  #405  
Old 05-15-2009, 09:22 PM
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Yes, it does appear that he didn't take his position seriously enough.

Yes, I also agree that the hypocrisy regarding that keeping Wallis as a mistress while marrying someone suitable is laughable. Edward's love for Wallis seemed to have surpassed everything else.
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  #406  
Old 05-16-2009, 07:50 AM
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I think it's very sad, though, that it was considered OK for him to marry some "suitable" aristocrat or princess for public purposes while keeping a mistress. That's every bit as much of a flouting of the marriage vows as the "till death us do part" repeat performance.
Most mistresses have been discreet and no-one with the best will in the world could ever have called Wallis that! I think she was an original flapper turned swinger who believed that "those" sort of morals were the sole province of the bourgeois!

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Originally Posted by Elspeth
Actually from reading memoirs at the time, there almost seemed to be some gratitude toward Mrs Simpson for providing the excuse for an abdication; a lot of the senior royal aides had been fed up with Edward from his time as Prince of Wales and were dreading having to serve him during his reign.
Actually, the only thing he ever seemed to have pursued with passion was Wallis. Great Britain and her Commonwealth did not even register on his radar.
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  #407  
Old 05-16-2009, 08:11 AM
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Marg...that really sums it up.

Great Britian and the Commonwealth didn't factor in his life. And considering that he was going to King...it should have played a small role AT LEAST! Looking back IMO he loved Wallis and had every right (as a everyday normal man) to expect her to be his wife but Alas he was not a normal man. Really, he did the only and best thing he could do.
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  #408  
Old 05-16-2009, 01:30 PM
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I always wonder if Wallis could have made the transition from wanton mistress, to serious future queen, as the present DOCorwall has. Look at the image change Camilla went through, from being one of the most hated woman in the UK, to being a popular hardworking dedicated future queen. Did Wallis have what it takes? My opinion of her was that she was fun loving, jetsetting, very extravagant and ostentatious.
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  #409  
Old 05-16-2009, 04:00 PM
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He ignored it because he knew that he couldn't cause an election over his choose of wife as that would have to be the election issue.

Short answer - he was advised by a number of people that either before or after his coronation the government wouldn't accept Wallis as his wife and would insist on an election whereby the issue was Wallis - not something that a constitutional monarch could stand. What if the electorate voted back into power the side that opposed Wallis - where would that leave the King?
The issue was constitutional in the sense that The Sovereign cannot be a source of political power in the State. He reigns, but does not rule. Once the Government tendered formal advice on the subject of marrying Wallis, he was bound to accept it. The people, as represented by Parliament, have final authority over the monarchy.

If the Government had resigned in protest, a new election would have been called with the sole purpose of electing a new Government willing to support Wallis as Queen Consort. Since Baldwin had already been assured by the Opposition parties they would not support dissolving the Government over the issue, the King had no choice but to abdicate or be removed from the throne by Parliament.
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  #410  
Old 05-16-2009, 09:10 PM
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I always wonder if Wallis could have made the transition from wanton mistress, to serious future queen, as the present DOCorwall has. Look at the image change Camilla went through, from being one of the most hated woman in the UK, to being a popular hardworking dedicated future queen. Did Wallis have what it takes? My opinion of her was that she was fun loving, jetsetting, very extravagant and ostentatious.
Other than the fact that they were both the lover of a PoW I find no similarity between the two.

Media hate-mongering aside, I see no startling change in Camilla's personality, lifestyle, behavior etc. She was always a decent woman, a discreet woman, a loving woman. Her children are living testimonies to a loving mother and now grandmother.

Her re-evaluation by the general public was inevitable. The media, for all the spite generated, has been unable to control what the public see and hear about the "Duchess of Cornwall", and seeing, many reasonable people have discovered a warm and loving wife, helpmate and future consort. They have also been privilged to see the return of the old POW, but with a generous helping of humour.

On the other hand, Wallis never concerned herself with those of the lower classes and stories of her unkind treatment of servants were only bettered by those of her almost disparaging treatment of her husband.

I always had the impression that Wallis was the star of her own life. In every situation, be it a party, a marriage, or a kingdom, Wallis was in charge. Even had David retained the throne and Wallis as his lover, Wallis would have been "running" the monarchy!

We all got lucky when he abdicated.
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  #411  
Old 05-16-2009, 09:27 PM
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I can only imagine what it would have been like if he'd married some princess for outward appearances and kept Wallis on the side. The wife would have had an awful time of it.
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  #412  
Old 05-16-2009, 10:03 PM
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Somehow I don't think that notion would ever have occurred to him. But, supposing he had been pursuaded to marry some bright deb? Wallis on the side would never have been an option. She would have been Queen in all but name and the public would have hated her, him and the monarchy!

This way they just hated her and despised him for being so spineless!

Thus are monarchies saved.!
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  #413  
Old 05-17-2009, 02:44 PM
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On the other hand, Wallis never concerned herself with those of the lower classes and stories of her unkind treatment of servants were only bettered by those of her almost disparaging treatment of her husband.
You are right about what you said, what I meant was, could wallis have improved her public image as the present DOC has? Not that they are the same or similar in any way. Since seeing Charles beaming from the time he anounced his engagement to camilla, you have to be blind not to see how good they are for each other. Yes thank god David abdicated
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Old 05-17-2009, 11:30 PM
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Don't forget the ranch in Canada.

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the Commonwealth didn't factor in his life.
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Old 05-17-2009, 11:52 PM
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In the immortal words of ABBA:

Money! Money! Money!
Always sunny.
In the rich man's world! :rolleyes2:
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  #416  
Old 05-18-2009, 01:40 AM
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Looking back IMO he loved Wallis and had every right (as a everyday normal man) to expect her to be his wife but Alas he was not a normal man. Really, he did the only and best thing he could do.
I tend to think he loved her, but he wasn't in love with her--at the time, I can't say when they grew old together that he didn't fall in love with her-- as that is an extirely different thing. David didn't want to rule and Wallis was a good scapegoat. What was she to do when he abdicated? Leave him?
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:30 AM
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I doubt the monarchy would have survived under Edward and Wallis' reign. Just a question for the historians, has ever a king of England married after his coronation?
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  #418  
Old 05-18-2009, 03:58 AM
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Henry VIII married quite a few times after his coronation. Edward III also married. Richard II married twice (the second time was a purely political move, though, and his bride was only 8). Henry IV, V, and VI all married after theirs, as did Edward VI and Henry VII.
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  #419  
Old 05-18-2009, 04:11 AM
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I doubt the monarchy would have survived under Edward and Wallis' reign. Just a question for the historians, has ever a king of England married after his coronation?
Quite a few actually - Henry I, Richard I, John's second wife was after he had become King having had his first marriage annulled just before he became King, Henry III, Edward I's second marriage, Edward III, Richard II, Henry IV's second marriage, Henry V, Henry VI, Edward IV, Henry VIII's last five wives, Mary I, Charles II and, of course, Victoria.


Those who married after coronation: Henry I, Richard I, John, Henry VIII, Edward I, Edward III, Richard II, Henry IV, Henry V, Henry VI, Edward IV, Henry VII, Henry VIII, Mary I, Charles II and Victoria. So, since the conquest 16/40 or 40%. Some of these marriages may have been second (or in Henry VIII's case 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th marriages) but they still happened after the coronation of the monarch.

Two more married after they become monarchs but before their coronations - Edward II and George III.
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  #420  
Old 05-18-2009, 04:11 AM
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Henry VIII married quite a few times after his coronation. Edward III also married. Richard II married twice (the second time was a purely political move, though, and his bride was only 8). Henry IV, V, and VI all married after theirs, as did Edward VI and Henry VII.
Thank you very much for your prompt response. I am so-o-o-o impressed with your knowledge
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