Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986)

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

They could have been warned by the example of Austrian emperor Ferdinand I. and his nephew Franz Joseph I. When Ferdinand abdicated he accepted that there could not be two emperors in Vienna and moved to Prague but he kept the complete private possessions of the Head of the House of Habsburg, as he had inherited it personally from his father on emperor Franz's death.
So for the first years of his reign Franz Joseph was rather poor and had really difficulties fulfilling his wife Sisi's wishes for horses, estates and jewellery. When his uncle died (but he lived long!), the dire straits ended because Ferdinand left the wealth to Franz Joseph.

On his death in 1916, Franz Joseph left part of this wealth to his two daughters and to his granddaughter by crown prince Rudolf. Archduchess Elisabeth had left the Imperial House on her marriage to a mere prince, her aunt Archduchess Gisela had married a Bavarian prince and her other aunt Archduchess Valerie signed the resignation from the Imperial House in 1920, so all three could keep their estates in Austria (including the Kaiservilla in Ischl). While the new reigning branch of Karl and Otto started rather poor and lost the rest of it after WWI....

So I wonder if the queen could leave Sandringham to Edward or Anne if she wanted to?

It's possible, but there'd be some fairly hefty taxes to pay. Leaving even personal property to the next monarch avoids estate taxes.

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by iowabelle

I don't know that you can make yourself fall in love with a certain kind of person, but PoW/Windsor certainly had plenty of opportunities to meet appropriate royals/aristocrats -- and he always attached himself to married women of the kind that Queen Mary could not have approved. I think he was a disaster waiting to happen ... and he had only 2 other choices, live alone or live quietly with a mistress. IMO he wasn't capable of self-sacrifice.

I think this is why it was always tacitly understood that royals could also have mistresses, because historically they weren't necessarily expected to get along with their wives as people, just to marry the person picked out by the monarch for them and produce children. The mistresses were for companionship because they didn't get that from their wives. David didn't seem to want to go along with the idea, and in his defence, there really weren't any reasons to insist on dynastic matches at that time in history.

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Originally Posted by MARG

I think it is very important not to underestimate the importance of his mother and his family in the scheme of things.

They made it clear that they did not consider David's lifestyle suitable for a King but that could have changed, indeed would have changed, had he become King. Wallis however was not negotiable. They saw her as immoral, licentious and totally unfit to become Queen, more importantly, there existed a deeply held loathing on the part of the royals, and total comtempt on the part of Wallis.

The King and Queen and the York family were all practicing christians who believed in honour and duty. David's entire lifestyle was anathema to them. Wallis was the last straw. An immoral soon to be twice divorced woman whose infidelities were well known to the King and Queen, as were David's and her political views.

Think about it. The Prince of Wales set was exciting, dashing, romantic and risque. The Yorks were playing happy families and enjoying it. The chasm between the two lifestyles was really too wide to be bridged.

Imho David believed he could have it all. But when push came to shove he knew he could never be King with Wallis and without the help and support of his family. That being the case he threatened to abdicate. I don't think he thought for a moment that they would agree. After all abdication was just not to be thought of and he believed they would relent and let him have it all. Sort of like holding your breath until you turn blue.

IMHO the POW was an overindulged libertine whose past caught up with him big time. Instead of showing backbone he bottled out.

Britain and the Commonweath are the better for it.

MARG...take a bow!! You sure laid it all out there, and I don't disagree with a single word! This tactic of threatening not to do your duty if you don't get your way with your choice of bride has been taken up by a couple of modern
day Crown Princes-whom I won't name here. Suffice it to say I think this is very selfish and short sighted behavior, and I am soooo happy the Royal Family and the Establishment did not cave to David's demands.

George VI was a great wartime King and a blessing to the Commonwealth, IMO.

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Originally Posted by Roslyn

I'm currently reading Diana Mosley's The Duchess of Windsor. It confirms Wallis was quite prepared to withdraw from the relationship if it would stop him from abdicating, but was torn by her wish to provide him with the help and support for which he had come to rely upon her. He had made up him mind some time before the actual Abdication that he was going to marry Wallis as soon as her divorce was finalised, and he was a determined man. She wept while listening to his radio broadcast.

In his own way he was a caring man. He tried to draw attention to the plight of the unemployed Welsh miners. I think he worked hard at his duties as PoW, but not everyone is cut out to be King and David was one of them.

I have just finished a biography of Diana Mosley and I had no idea that she had done a biography of the DoW but I am not surprised. Diana and her odious husband Sir Oswald Mosley were great admirers of Adolf Hitler as were the Duke and Duchess. So they did have THAT in common.

[BeatrixFan]

And their exceedingly good cakes.

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

And their exceedingly good cakes.

Ehh...good cakes?? What am I missing here?

[Amelia]

The late Wallis Simpson, the Duchess of Windsor, has not been deemed worthy of a commemorative blue plaque on her former London home.English Heritage, the government agency that runs the blue plaque scheme, has rejected the plan because of controversial and unproved allegations that she had a secret affair with Joachim von Ribbentrop, Hitler's ambassador to London, and gave him details of British troop movements.

Mrs Simpson not worthy of blue plaque - Telegraph

[Menarue]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin

I have just finished a biography of Diana Mosley and I had no idea that she had done a biography of the DoW but I am not surprised. Diana and her odious husband Sir Oswald Mosley were great admirers of Adolf Hitler as were the Duke and Duchess. So they did have THAT in common.

The Duke of Windsor wanted to improve the plight of the miners, when he was promising them that he would do this he was already planning to abdicate and must have known he could never do anything. At the same time he was buying immense jewellery for Wallis and cutting down on his staff´s wages. He spent his whole life "crying the poor mouth" and spending a fortune on his and his wife´s frivolous life.

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Originally Posted by Menarue

The Duke of Windsor wanted to improve the plight of the miners, when he was promising them that he would do this he was already planning to abdicate and must have known he could never do anything. At the same time he was buying immense jewellery for Wallis and cutting down on his staff´s wages. He spent his whole life "crying the poor mouth" and spending a fortune on his and his wife´s frivolous life.

I always wondered how the Duke was able to afford the Duchess's spectacular jewellry collection and wardrobe if he was as hard up as he was always claiming to be...the auction held after Wallis's death revealed some trinkets worthy of Ali Baba's treasure cove.

Also that magnificent mansion they kept in France-was it the Bois de Boulogne?" and the servants and the lavish lifestyle...their parties and style of entertaining are the stuff of legend.

I want to be a POOR PERSON like that!!

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by Amelia

Mrs Simpson not worthy of blue plaque - Telegraph

Oh, wonderful. Denying something on the basis of unproved allegations. Sigh.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin

Also that magnificent mansion they kept in France-was it the Bois de Boulogne?" and the servants and the lavish lifestyle...their parties and style of entertaining are the stuff of legend.

If I remember correctly, the mansion was a grace and favor place by the country of France which is why Wallis left the money from the sale of her gorgeous collection to the Pasteur institute.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin

I always wondered how the Duke was able to afford the Duchess's spectacular jewellry collection and wardrobe if he was as hard up as he was always claiming to be...the auction held after Wallis's death revealed some trinkets worthy of Ali Baba's treasure cove.

Also that magnificent mansion they kept in France-was it the Bois de Boulogne?" and the servants and the lavish lifestyle...their parties and style of entertaining are the stuff of legend.

I want to be a POOR PERSON like that!!

Many of the jewels he acquired were paid for when he was still King and had access to the revenues from the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall. He also possessed a substantial private fortune (about $30 million in today's dollars) from years of being the heir and Duke of Cornwall.

After the Abdication, The Duke wisely invested his fortune with the help of very savvy American friends, which also paid off quite well. He also earned substantial sums of money from his memoirs, as did The Duchess a few years later.

However, in The Duke's final years, their spending caught up with them and by the time he died in 1972, his fortune was said to be much diminished to about $2 million. The Duchess sold The Mill about a year after his death for $1 million, so she had a reasonable amount of liquid assets as a widow.

As The Duchess aged and became sicker, her medical bills and the cost of her household became very expensive and eventually she ran out of money. Maitre Blum quietly sold items from the mansion to raise cash until The Queen contacted her around 1980 to tell her she would take care of the finances.

[MARG]

Originally Posted by Menarue

The Duke of Windsor wanted to improve the plight of the miners, when he was promising them that he would do this he was already planning to abdicate and must have known he could never do anything. At the same time he was buying immense jewellery for Wallis and cutting down on his staff´s wages. He spent his whole life "crying the poor mouth" and spending a fortune on his and his wife´s frivolous life.

It seems that the Duke of Winsor was a hollow man. He calculatedly courted the simpathy of his subjects, e.g. sympathising with the plight of the miners. The fact that he neither would nor could do anything for them was irrelevant. They were merely pawns, his perceived loyal subject to whom he could fall back on if necessary. Frankly his overall style was dishonourable. His sole focus was himself and Wallis and he had no scruples about lying to his family about his accumulated fortune and ripping off both his Brother and his Country over the sale of properties that were implicitly the property of the King of England and securing an obscenely large allowance to compensate for his "poverty".

How absolutely ghastly for the BRF when they found the depth of his deceit and dishonesty, remembering that in that age the concept of honour really meant something (in a way that we, today, yearn for), and David had displayed a degree of moral bankruptcy previously unheard of and yet we ascribe the antipathy that the BRF regarded him as unwarranted.

The Queen Mother and even the Queen herself have been accused of vindictiveness at worst and pettyness at best in their dealings with the Windsors. However, with the Windsor's track record of lying about their finances, it is little wonder that the Queen only came to the Duchess' aid over medical bills when it was proved that she had no money left.

The fact that the Winsors had managed to sqaunder such an amazing fortune on self-indulgence would not have generated much sympathy within the BRF. The feeling of utter betrayal on all levels must have made the King, Queen Mother, and Queen Elizabeth more than a little bitter. The important thing to note is that they did not make any of these matters public. Death, time and the declassification of information has provided the majority of factual "insight" that we regard this issue. The BRF held their peace and let the "public" think what they wanted to. Anything was preferable to exposing the shameful truth.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by MARG

How absolutely ghastly for the BRF when they found the depth of his deceit and dishonesty... David had displayed a degree of moral bankruptcy...

So you're not a fan then Marg?

[Menarue]

I agree with all that is said about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, they were self indulgent spoiled do nothings. I have read every book, including their own biographies and I find that I most definitely dislike both of them. That said, I think they should have put a plaque at the door of Bryanston Court. She did make history and many people would like to look at "where it all started".

[MARG]

Originally Posted by Warren

So you're not a fan then Marg?

Ya think?