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  #241  
Old 05-06-2008, 11:52 AM
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Well, if you've check out the latest over in the Russian forum, you should know that it takes a lot of time to sort out DNA claims. I would imagine that someone claiming to be an offspring of Wallis and David (if they were alive) would have a devil of a time trying to prove it as well.
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  #242  
Old 05-06-2008, 02:55 PM
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Someone would have to co-operate as well. Prince Philip did, which enabled them to identify the Russian royal family.
There was a book recently in Portugal, a family claiming to be descended from Queen Victoria and the Duke of Wellington, it was hilarious, but unintentionally as they had one page in Portuguese and the facing page in Babelfish English. A classic.
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  #243  
Old 05-07-2008, 09:59 AM
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Rather than get sidetracked onto the Duke of Wellington and Queen Victoria could we stick to the Duke and Duchess of Windsor please.
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  #244  
Old 05-07-2008, 03:05 PM
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I might have mentioned this before... but once, when I lived in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, (back in the 80s) I met an elderly man who had known Wallis when her first husband was stationed in Pensacola, Florida. This elderly man said that he had enjoyed dancing with her and he thought she was wonderful. (I got the impression that she was one of those women that men really enjoyed.)

Personally, I'm a little torn about Wallis. I don't really understand a king who would turn his back on his duty, or a woman who would encourage/tolerate that kind of behavior...
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  #245  
Old 05-07-2008, 07:23 PM
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IB, all the books that I have read on Wallis state that she loved the limelight, the glitter, but when push came to shove, David made the choice for them. Is there any doubt she loved him? No, there isn't. I just don't think that they have the passionate love that Charles and Camilla obviously share for each other.
What could she do once he abdicated? She couldn't leave him. She HAD to marry him.
David really didn't want to rule, some books say, and other quote his father as saying that he'd ruin the Kingdom in 6 months.
I think Bertie was a much better choice for a monarch.
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  #246  
Old 05-07-2008, 07:55 PM
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I think they were both self-indulgent and selfish, however, it is clear today The Duke wanted to abdicate right from the start, which went back quite a few years before George V died. He just didn't want to be King, which Wallis had no idea about until it was too late.

She most definitely did not want him to abdicate and was adamant that he sacrifice his personal desires in the name of his duty as King. But once the ball started rolling, it became impossible to stop.
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  #247  
Old 05-07-2008, 08:02 PM
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She most definitely did not want him to abdicate and was adamant that he sacrifice his personal desires in the name of his duty as King. But once the ball started rolling, it became impossible to stop.
Exactly. And what could she do? "Sorry David, but I'm splitting as well. Sorry you gave your kingdom up for me and I'm not going to be around for the fall out."
Unfortunately, they both made each other's beds. . . .
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  #248  
Old 05-07-2008, 08:21 PM
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I hope they managed to give each other a measure of happiness. Some of their biographers seemed to be determined to show that they had a thoroughly unhappy life - I hope that isn't the case. It doesn't seem to be, but I suppose you can never really tell.
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  #249  
Old 05-07-2008, 09:28 PM
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Yes, I agree. David had more glamour, but Bertie had more substance.

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I think Bertie was a much better choice for a monarch.
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  #250  
Old 05-08-2008, 08:36 AM
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I don't think they had a wonderful life. The Duke suffered from bouts of depression and the constant humiliations from his family certainly weren't pleasant.

But I do think they were very happy together.
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  #251  
Old 05-08-2008, 10:40 AM
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I remember the editorial in the main Sydney broadsheet when the Duke died. It summed up his life as empty and wasted. Maybe the Duke had a sense of that as well. From "Prince of Wales Superstar" in the 1920s, to a largely irrelevant and forgotten figure in Paris a few decades later, it was quite a fall from grace.
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  #252  
Old 05-08-2008, 02:03 PM
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I hope they managed to give each other a measure of happiness. Some of their biographers seemed to be determined to show that they had a thoroughly unhappy life - I hope that isn't the case. It doesn't seem to be, but I suppose you can never really tell.
I believe they had a "happy" life, but not a very "fulfilling" one. They had parties, they had friends, Aline, Countess of the Ramones (I know I spelled that wrong-whoops!) was a big supporter, they traveled. they were always dressed to the 9's. But I don't think they had anything that they were really passionate about to fulfill their lives.
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  #253  
Old 05-08-2008, 02:22 PM
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There are certainly allegations that the Duchess cheated on him after the marriage and treated him rather badly.

I think part of the problem was that after the abdication they didn't know how to spend their lives. Remember how the Duke tried to retain some of his prestige during World War II and how quickly Bertie and Elizabeth cut him off. (Of course, Bertie really had to curtail any possibility of a second court, especially during wartime.) But how should an ex-king spend his time? There haven't been many successful examples, unless the monarch was elderly (I'm thinking of The Netherlands in particular).

The Countess of the Ramones wrote a book (I think it was called The Spy Wore Red) about her espionage activities and her friendship with the Windsors. I enjoyed the book very much.
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  #254  
Old 05-08-2008, 03:47 PM
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Aline wrote 3 books, one of which is "The Spy went Dancing". I can't remember the name of the other one. Peter says she might have fudged on some stuff though.

One book I read on the Duchess had David walking in on her and Jimmy Donohue (cousin of Barbara Hutton, in fact, it may have been the "Poor Little Rich Girl" book that came from) where she told him "Look David! I'm Queen of the Fairies!" which had David reduced to tears.

What exactly does a King do? What was David QUALIFIED for besides looking dapper? He was bred to rule. So it was a bit of a jolt not to be able to do anything. I think Prince Charles and Prince Andrew are much more well-rounded individuals. If the Throne went tomorrow (God forbid!) I don't think Prince Charles would have any lack of activities to fill his life with and it would be full. Especially with the Woman He Loves by his side.
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  #255  
Old 05-09-2008, 02:32 AM
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What exactly does a King do? What was David QUALIFIED for besides looking dapper? He was bred to rule. So it was a bit of a jolt not to be able to do anything. . . .
He may have been bred to rule but all he did as Prince of Wales was party, womanise and party even more. I haven't read anything much about what he may have contributed as POW, what charities did he support, what minor King-in-Waiting anything did he do except please himself?

And to top it all off he was politically niaive, and totally out of touch with his subjects, barring the rarified society in which he moved. Worse, he didn't even bother trying. He simply expected that he could have whatever he wanted whenever he wanted it.

Surprise, surprise, his family, the govenment and the majority of his subjects saw it differently.
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  #256  
Old 05-09-2008, 02:48 AM
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He may have been bred to rule but all he did as Prince of Wales was party, womanise and party even more. I haven't read anything much about what he may have contributed as POW, what charities did he support, what minor King-in-Waiting anything did he do except please himself?
He went on a lot of long overseas tours, particularly to parts of the Empire. Although there was a fair bit of pleasing himself involved, the general opinion seemed to be that he worked hard and did a good job at representing Britain.

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And to top it all off he was politically niaive, and totally out of touch with his subjects, barring the rarified society in which he moved. Worse, he didn't even bother trying. He simply expected that he could have whatever he wanted whenever he wanted it.

Surprise, surprise, his family, the govenment and the majority of his subjects saw it differently.
Apparently he was very popular right up until the scandal about Wallis broke - so much so that the government was afraid that he might be able to rally public support behind him if he was allowed to appeal to the public. His family and the government saw it differently with a few exceptions, but he wasn't that much of a worthless waste of space.
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  #257  
Old 05-09-2008, 07:36 AM
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Apparently he was very popular right up until the scandal about Wallis broke . . .
Of course he was popular. He was, young, handsome, rich, titled, a Prince, and of course, the next King. They were the grey days of the Great Depression and wierdly enough reports, photos and newsreels of him living life large, the fact that he was very attractive to women, all of those charismatic "quantity X" factors, did much to raise peoples spirits. They were proud of their Prince!

America had their silver screen idols, Douglas Fairbanks et al. Britain had the real thing, the Prince of Wales.

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. . . so much so that the government was afraid that he might be able to rally public support behind him if he was allowed to appeal to the public.
The government was also as much out of touch with "the common man (or woman)" in thinking this as, in the minds of the majority of his "Subjects", men didn't marry their mistresses and their King certainly couldn't marry a (twice divorced) courtesan.

When all was said and done all that was left was a sad little life spend in the endless pursuit of some kind of purpose. It may also explain the incredibly poor judgement regarding the Nazi Party fiasco.
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  #258  
Old 05-10-2008, 12:29 AM
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Of course he was popular. He was, young, handsome, rich, titled, a Prince, and of course, the next King. They were the grey days of the Great Depression and wierdly enough reports, photos and newsreels of him living life large, the fact that he was very attractive to women, all of those charismatic "quantity X" factors, did much to raise peoples spirits. They were proud of their Prince!
People also felt that he cared about them. Royals, even with their very different lifestyle, can often connect with the people in ways that politicians can't, and he seemed to have that quality.


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The government was also as much out of touch with "the common man (or woman)" in thinking this as, in the minds of the majority of his "Subjects", men didn't marry their mistresses and their King certainly couldn't marry a (twice divorced) courtesan.
It sounded as though Baldwin and the Archbishop were rather concerned that after the initial shock, the people might come round to the idea. They probably wouldn't have, but I'm not sure it was that much of a done deal.

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When all was said and done all that was left was a sad little life spend in the endless pursuit of some kind of purpose. It may also explain the incredibly poor judgement regarding the Nazi Party fiasco.
That wasn't entirely their fault. He wanted to serve his country, but on the condition that the Establishment recognise Wallis. The Establishment, mostly in the persons of Queen Elizabeth and Queen Mary, refused. Sure, he could have gone off and done good deeds in France, but he was British and he wanted to connect with his country.
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  #259  
Old 05-12-2008, 08:49 AM
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The understanding I am talking about is not the feelings of the public for her it was the very strong feeling of loyalty and tradition that surround the British royal family, I donīt think that she understood ever what royalty meant. She gave the Queen mother a nickname, Cookie, said she had no class. She visited the then Duke and Duchess of York (later King George VI and Queen Elizabeth) at Balmoral and suggested removing a hill and some trees to better the view....She treated the royal servants in a way that they were definitely not accustomed to, made them get up or stay up to all hours to make sandwiches and serve her guests.
David showered jewellery on her, and while doing so he was reducing the salaries of some of the royal servants.
She was worried before the abdication it is true, but in my opinion she had banked on being accepted as Queen and a David without title and power wasnīt so attractive to her.
After the abdication she took a King and turned him into a party goer who spent most of the rest of his life worshipping at her feet and if you can believe his biographers pinching pennies. If he had shown promise as a young Prince it was taken away by his obsession for a well-dressed ambitious
woman.
I hope that he did have a happy life but somehow I doubt it.


She told everyone that she did everything possible to stop David from giving up his throne but she was on the phone to him every day telling him what to do.
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  #260  
Old 05-12-2008, 10:09 PM
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The understanding I am talking about is not the feelings of the public for her it was the very strong feeling of loyalty and tradition that surround the British royal family, I donīt think that she understood ever what royalty meant. She gave the Queen mother a nickname, Cookie, said she had no class. She visited the then Duke and Duchess of York (later King George VI and Queen Elizabeth) at Balmoral and suggested removing a hill and some trees to better the view.....
Cookie? Cookie! No Class! Could anything have been more insulting to the Queen because Wallace was never noted for her tact and diplomacy. I bet she heard every little insult, which begs the question: if she didn't think the Queen of England had any "class", did she think that she was far superior and thus fit to be the next Queen?

If she held the Queen in contempt, how much more would she have felt that the Duke and Duchess of York were "provincial" and definitely not have any class whatsoever. It also showed that the Duke and Duchess of York would have had more than one reason to hold her in contempt.

I didn't understand why they never had children, but it seems that David always intended his brother to succeed him, just not that soon.
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