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  #81  
Old 08-21-2012, 09:59 PM
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When Charles becomes King will there be as much pomp as there was during Elizabeth's coronation? By that, I mean everyone who owns one or can borrow one wearing a tiara, foreign royalty in attendance also with tiaras and orders? Or would that sort of thing be considered passé and only the most senior royals doing that?
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  #82  
Old 08-21-2012, 11:01 PM
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I think the answer to that is 'we have to wait and see'.

There will be some pomp of course but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't a full tiara event.

Foreign Crown Princes would be expected to attend but not the monarchs - not protocol for an existing Head of State to attend as precedence amongst equals comes from date of office so that means the new monarch would be last in precedence at his/her own funeral.

Close family who are also Heads of State sometimes attend the accompanying events but not usually the coronation itself.
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  #83  
Old 08-22-2012, 05:40 AM
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I think as far as tiaras and such go, that's a big maybe.

There is a traditional part of the coronation where I think its after the monarch is crowned, all the titled peers don their coronets? If that part is a tradition, I think it'll remain in the ceremony. Although Charles himself is looking at a modern monarchy, there's so much about him that values the traditions and I think he'll keep as much tradition in the ceremony as he can.
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  #84  
Old 08-22-2012, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I think as far as tiaras and such go, that's a big maybe.

There is a traditional part of the coronation where I think its after the monarch is crowned, all the titled peers don their coronets? If that part is a tradition, I think it'll remain in the ceremony. Although Charles himself is looking at a modern monarchy, there's so much about him that values the traditions and I think he'll keep as much tradition in the ceremony as he can.
Coronets are very much traditional part of the Coronation of a British Monarch, and I doubt they will be removed during King Charles' coronation.
Coronets are worn by members of the Royal Family and Peers in the following way:
- The Heir Apparent dons a coronet displaying four crosses-pattée alternating with four fleurs-de-lis, surmounted by an arch.
- The children and siblings of the Monarch wear a coronet displaying four crosses-pattée alternating with four fleurs-de-lis.
- The children of the Heir Apparent wear a coronet displaying four fleurs-de-lis, two crosses-pattée and two strawberry leaves.
- The children of the Monarch's siblings wear coronets displaying four crosses-pattée and four strawberry leaves.

- Dukes and Duchesses wear coronets with eight strawberry leaves.
- Marquesses and Marchionesses wear coronets with eight strawberry leaves and four silver balls.
- Earls and Countesses wear coronets with eight strawberry leaves and eight silver balls.
- Viscounts Viscountesses wear coronets with sixteen silver balls.
- Barons and Baronesses wear coronets with six silver balls.

- Foreign Monarch may wear Crowns.
- Foreign female Monarchs may wear Crowns or tiaras - upon their discretion.
- Foreign female royals can (and most probably, will) wear tiaras.
- Female members of noble families may (and most probably, will) wear tiaras.

- The Kings of Arms wear special crowns (a silver-gilt one consisting of sixteen acanthus leaves alternating in height, and inscribed with the words "Miserere mei Deus secundum magnam misericordiam tuam" ("Have mercy on me O God according to Thy great mercy").
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  #85  
Old 08-22-2012, 07:23 AM
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What do coronets look like?
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  #86  
Old 08-22-2012, 07:34 AM
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What do coronets look like?
Did a quick fly-by Wiki and if you click the link and scroll down a bit, it shows what some of the British coronets look like.

Coronet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #87  
Old 08-22-2012, 07:39 AM
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I think the coronets for the hereditary peers will be scrapped. Don't forget that all the hereditary peers sat in the House of Lords at the time of the previous coronations. They were actually part of the constitutional process, involved in scrutinising laws and holding the government to account.

That's now no longer the case as House of Lords reform saw all but a very small number of hereditary peers lose their position and role in Parliament. On top of that, I think the peers themselves would think it silly to dress up in ermine robes and put on coronets, and the public would look at it as an anachronism from bygone days. I think those days are gone.
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  #88  
Old 08-22-2012, 07:40 AM
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What do coronets look like?
Coronets are basically small crowns that consist of different ornaments fixed on a metal (usually, gold) ring. A coronet is different from a Crown in that it doesn't have arches and is worn by a nobleman, noblewoman, or member of the Royal Family (as opposed to the Monarch). A coronet differs from a tiara in that it fully encircles and covers the head, whereas the tiara doesn't.

- Heir Apparent's Coronet
- Coronet of the children of the Heir Apparent
- Coronet of the Sovereign's sons and daughters
- Coronet of the child of the Sovereign's daughter
- Coronet of the Sovereign's male-line grandsons and granddaughters

- Coronet of a Duke and a Duchess
- Coronet of a Marquess and a Marchioness
- Coronet of an Earl and a Countess
- Coronet of a Viscount and a Viscountess
- Coronet of a Baron and a Baroness

- Coronet of The Kings of Arms


Wikipedia's article on Coronets.
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  #89  
Old 08-22-2012, 07:44 AM
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I think the coronets for the hereditary peers will be scrapped. Don't forget that all the hereditary peers sat in the House of Lords at the time of the previous coronations. They were actually part of the constitutional process, involved in scrutinising laws and holding the government to account.

That's now no longer the case as House of Lords reform saw all but a very small number of hereditary peers lose their position and role in Parliament. On top of that, I think the peers themselves would think it silly to dress up in ermine robes and put on coronets, and the public would look at it as an anachronism from bygone days. I think those days are gone.
I'm not sure I agree with you, EIIR.
Members of the Orders of the Garter and Thistle robes for the annual ceremonies: surely a coronation - a once in a lifetime occasion for many - would be a perfect excuse to wear full ceremonial robes, however silly they may look? They are part of British history and traditions, just as many other events with displays of pomp and pageantry (Opening of the Parliament, Trooping the Colour, etc).

I, for one, really hope that as much of the traditions and ceremonies of the old coronations as possible are left intact.
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  #90  
Old 08-22-2012, 08:41 AM
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My guess is that very few hereditary peers will be in attendance unless they have another role in government or in the royal household. Possibly an invite to the premier hereditary peers of each degree, but I suspect the peers in attendance will largely be the life peers. I would expect guests to represent a wider view of society than they did in 1953.
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  #91  
Old 08-22-2012, 07:50 PM
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I agree. It would be strange to have all the hereditary Peers present with their coronets when the majority no longer have any rights to sit in the House of Lords.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:05 PM
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I'm writing a sort mini-series on Coronation Ceremony and Regalia.
If anyone is interested, here is the first post on Coronation Rings.
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  #93  
Old 01-19-2013, 07:08 PM
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I'm writing a sort mini-series on Coronation Ceremony and Regalia.
If anyone is interested, here is the first post on Coronation Rings.
How exciting for you,and I'm interested!

Well done!
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  #94  
Old 01-19-2013, 07:26 PM
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Artemesia - what an interesting and informative post. Thank you.

Much is written about the coronation of monarchs but I'm struggling to find information about the coronation of consorts and then it appears in this piece. I would like to know more about that part of the ceremony, particularly as we have 2 queen consorts in waiting.

Is there a thread about that? Can we start one, if not? or can we add it too this?
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  #95  
Old 01-19-2013, 07:45 PM
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Thanks for your interest; hopefully, the next topic will not disappoint either.

Cepe - I don't think there is a separate thread for the coronations of the Queens Consort, most probably because there are no separate coronations. The coronation of Queens Consort is a very short ceremony (lasts about a minute) towards the end of the King's coronation. Because the last Queen Consort to have had a separate (and very lavish) coronation was Anne Boleyn, there isn't really a lot to talk about. And unlike the coronation of a King, there were never complex rules or ceremonies; Queens Consort basically just showed off their elaborate gowns and jewellery, swore allegiance to the King - and that was it (although the ceremony itself could last for hours). If you are interested in the topic, I'll make sure to include it in the Coronation series.
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  #96  
Old 01-19-2013, 07:51 PM
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That would be good because they have regalia - crown and ring. I didn't know about the ring until I read your post.

Thank you
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  #97  
Old 01-19-2013, 09:21 PM
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I'm writing a sort mini-series on Coronation Ceremony and Regalia.
If anyone is interested, here is the first post on Coronation Rings.
Artemisia, your site is evolving very nicely and further supplying us with fascinating tidbits along with your vast wealth of knowledge. Nicely done!
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  #98  
Old 01-19-2013, 10:30 PM
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Thank you very much for your posts on the coronation. I find it fascinating.
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  #99  
Old 01-20-2013, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
I'm writing a sort mini-series on Coronation Ceremony and Regalia.
If anyone is interested, here is the first post on Coronation Rings.
Thanks Artemisia for the link, hard work on the site and the information. I've known that much about the Coronation Rings before and found the article to be fascinating.

BTW, I left a link to your blog/site over in the Royalty thread we've got going at the Figure Skating MB I belong to. So you might get a bit of an upswing in hits the next few days.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:08 PM
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Thank you all for the kind words!
Tiggersk8, thanks a lot for posting a link in your other board; hope people there will be interested as well.
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