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  #281  
Old 09-09-2015, 02:17 PM
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In 2012 as the Jubilee celebrations began, I was honoured to meet the Queen twice. At Lambeth Palace, three Muslim colleagues and I presented Her Majesty with a decorative frame with Quranic text embroidered on a cloth that had once been used to cover the holiest of Muslim sites, the Kaaba. I met her again shortly afterwards, when she came with the newly-married Duchess of Cambridge to Leicester cathedral to begin her Jubilee tour.

Our meeting came sixty years after the young princess became Queen Elizabeth II, following her coronation in Westminster Abbey with St Edward’s Crown. The service was three hours long and attended by 8,000 guests. It now feels like it belongs to a different age. And of course it does. Britain is a more plural and more secular country than it was in 1953. This has led a number of people to suggest that when the next coronation occurs, a traditional and, in particular, Christian ceremony is no longer appropriate.

As the Chair of the Islamic Society of Britain, you might expect me to agree with those impressions. But like the majority of the population, as revealed in a new poll conducted by ComRes for the think tank Theos, I support the idea of a Christian coronation. Only 19 per cent of people thought that a Christian coronation would alienate people of non-Christian faiths from the ceremony, while only 22 per cent of people from a religious minority agreed that it would alienate them.
Read more: Take it from a Muslim: British coronations should be Christian - Spectator Blogs
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  #282  
Old 09-10-2015, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SamMell View Post
Hello,

I wonder if somebody here can help me.

Earlier I heard a special about the British coronation ceremony of Elisabeth II. in the radio and there was one member of the Royal family who criticised television massively. I think it was the first time they wanted to show the ceremony in the TVs.
I think it was a man and he said something like, this medium will make the people stupid or something like that.
My question is: Who said it and could you please post the exact quotation of it?

Thank you and greetings from Germany!
Sorry for grammaticaly faults.
I found it by myself.
For everyone interested: It was the Bishop of Canterburry, who said TV is one of the biggest dangers for the world.
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  #283  
Old 10-07-2015, 02:23 PM
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I am trying to find more information about the robes of Queen Maud at the coronation of George VI in 1937. Did she wear the robes of a Queen or those of a British princess of the blood!?
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  #284  
Old 10-07-2015, 02:48 PM
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Its hard to say for certain because judging by this photo, Queen Mauds velvet train is of the same design as Queen Mary's AND the duchesses of Kent and Gloucester. Only Queen Elizabeths is especially distinguished by its embroidery..

http://i57.tinypic.com/333wopz.jpg
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  #285  
Old 10-07-2015, 03:10 PM
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Wouldn't the length of the robes distinguish between a queen and a princess? I wonder also if the tiara Queen Maud is wearing might give a clue - can it be identified?
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  #286  
Old 10-07-2015, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
Wouldn't the length of the robes distinguish between a queen and a princess? I wonder also if the tiara Queen Maud is wearing might give a clue - can it be identified?
I don't know so much about royal jewelry, but it is her own Malteser Tiara. Queen Sonja have used it several times.

The Royal Order of Sartorial Splendor: Tiara Thursday (on a Friday): The Malteser Tiara

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EFb2Yd9fJh...8/s1600/_m.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3CjYyv_pBL.../s1600/_sm.jpg
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  #287  
Old 10-07-2015, 03:37 PM
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She wore the robes of a Princess. I found the following quote from Style & Spendour, The Wardrobe of Queen Maud of Norway.

Quote:
For the coronation ceremony Queen Maud used the ermine-trimmed purple velvet robe she wore for her father’s coronation in 1902. It was made by Ede and Ravenscroft, a company founded in 1689 and still in business today as specialists in ceremonial attire. For the coronation of Edward VII, Ede and Ravenscroft made the coronation robes and the robes for members of the royal family, as well as ceremonial suits for the nobility, the court and the clercy.

In the accounts of Ede and Ravenscroft, the details and the price of Princess Maud’s robe are entered on 24 June 1902 under the title H. R. H. Princess Charles of Denmark. The title was later amended to H. M. Queen of Norway. The purple velvet robe trimmed with gold lace and ermine, and lined with white silk, cost 96 guineas. Included in the bill was red velvet for Maud’s princess crown at 15 shillings, as well as a lacquered lead box in which to store the gown with Maud’s name painted on it in gold, costing two pounds, seven shillings and sixpence.

Dressed in her golden gown, ermine-edged robe, necklaces and diamond tiara, as well as her medals, Maud embodied British royal tradition, for she took part in the ceremony as a British princess, not as a Norwegian queen. Her husband King Haakon did not accompany her, as British coronation etiquette did not allow the kings of other countries to participate.
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  #288  
Old 10-07-2015, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
Strictly speaking those are not Maltese crosses on the tiara, but crosses pattee. Some tiara nerd on the RJWMB as found out about it since the ROoSS blog was published.

Cross pattee: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...raldry.svg.png

Maltese cross: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._cross.svg.png

I know, this is nit-picking. Sorry . I just find it fascinating that the tiara has been labeled Maltese cross tiara for ages, and after decades somebody finds out about the wrong assignation.
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  #289  
Old 10-07-2015, 04:39 PM
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No, she definitely attended as a Queen. Her and Queen Mary's presence was the first time that crowned heads attended the coronation of a new monarch.

The robes are the question, which is confusing because: If the robes are that of a British Princess and her and Mary had the same robes but Mary was never a British Princess.

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Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post
She wore the robes of a Princess. I found the following quote from Style & Spendour, The Wardrobe of Queen Maud of Norway.

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  #290  
Old 10-07-2015, 05:03 PM
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Well, Maud was Queen of Norway at the time of the coronation, but she didn't attend the coronation in her capacity of being Queen. She attended because she was a born Princess of GB and wore the robes assigned to that status. I don't think that there are robes for Norwegian queens, and she certainly couldn't have worn the robes of a British queen.

As for Queen Mary I can only guess: There were no traditional robes for a dowager queen, because the dowagers queen have never before attended coronations. But could she wear robes denoting the same rank as the current queen? So wearing Princess robes was a way out of that dilemma.
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  #291  
Old 10-07-2015, 05:12 PM
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Queen Maud's Norwegian Coronation Robes had the Norwegian crown embodied on them.

http://www.kongehuset.no/aim/kongehu...2992320841.jpg
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  #292  
Old 10-07-2015, 05:35 PM
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Oh, thanks! I have never taken notice of the Norwegian coronation robes before. They look magnificent, but I think that Maud really couldn't wear them to a British coronation. You don't wear white to a wedding. And you don't wear your coronation robes to somebody else's coronation.
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  #293  
Old 10-07-2015, 05:36 PM
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Further image of the Queen Maud and the Norwegian Royal Family at the Coronation:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/43e9543f3...fhybo1_500.jpg

It seems that there is a difference between the robes of a dowager queen (i.e. Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother) and those of a British princess/royal duchess.

The following image shows the greater width of gold lace bands on the Queen Mother's robes than those of Princess Margaret (notice too the ermine trim is different on each of the robes). In Wyevale's image above, you will see that Queen Mary's robes have the same bands and ermine trim as the Queen Mother.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...2572168b08.jpg

As Queen Maud wore the same stye of robes as Princess Margaret (and therefore of a British princess), what Tillia says is quite correct - otherwise she would have worn the same robes as Queen Mary (and later QEQM).

Imagine what might have been said had she turned up wearing her own Norwegian coronation robes!
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  #294  
Old 10-07-2015, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
Imagine what might have been said had she turned up wearing her own Norwegian coronation robes!
In that case we probably wouldn't have this discussion now, because the echo of that scandal would still be ringing in our ears today! Imagine that Queen Maud would have popped on her own crown instead of the coronet!
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  #295  
Old 10-07-2015, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post
There were no traditional robes for a dowager queen, because the dowagers queen have never before attended coronations. But could she wear robes denoting the same rank as the current queen? So wearing Princess robes was a way out of that dilemma.
Yes, there was no precedent for a dowager queen and I guess they must have taken the style from the highest available rank (i.e. a princess) other than a monarch and added the thicker banding and ermine.

I don't think Maud could have worn robes denoting the same rank as a British queen regnant, which incidentally seem to be the same as those of a queen consort - the thickest of ermine and gold lace bands with the further addition of decorative embroidery such as flowers and symbols framed within the bands.

I guess also that protocol prevented her from wearing the same robes as a dowager queen or maybe it was simply her choice.

Quote:
In that case we probably wouldn't have this discussion now, because the echo of that scandal would still be ringing in our ears today! Imagine that Queen Maud would have popped on her own crown instead of the coronet!
What a dilemma that would have been - the BBC commentator (had there been such a thing) would have been more confused and muddled than ever!
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  #296  
Old 10-07-2015, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
Further image of the Queen Maud and the Norwegian Royal Family at the Coronation:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/43e9543f3...fhybo1_500.jpg

I noticed that Crown Princess Martha wore no robes so it was just the female members of the BRF that wore them.
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  #297  
Old 10-07-2015, 06:48 PM
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I thought the restriction was for Monarchs, not their Consorts or Dowager Consorts
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  #298  
Old 10-07-2015, 07:04 PM
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I noticed that Crown Princess Martha wore no robes so it was just the female members of the BRF that wore them.
Yes, she will have followed the dress code for non-British royalty/guests.

Cepe - what restrictions do you mean?!
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  #299  
Old 10-07-2015, 07:18 PM
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"By a tradition said to date back to the days of the Plantagenet Sovereigns, no British Queen Dowager had ever attended the Coronation of her husband's successor on the throne..........The origin of this tradition is obscure, but it is no doubt connected with another tradition of apparently equivalent antiquity: that no crowned head attends the Coronation of a European Sovereign....Torn between her inborn respect for historical tradition and by her inevitable wish to watch a son of hers being crowned as King of England, Queen Mary decided that she would for once herself make a constitutional innovation, and ask the King if she might not witness the Abbey ceremony and take her own part in the Coronation procession through London. This decision of Queen Mary's added to the sense of solidarity with which the whole Royal Family was facing the new reign." Queen Mary, James Pope-Hennessy, paperback, commencing page 583.
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  #300  
Old 10-07-2015, 07:23 PM
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Yes, she will have followed the dress code for non-British royalty/guests.

Cepe - what restrictions do you mean?!
previous post from Tilia yesterday #287 mentioned the restriction that Monarchs do not attend Coronations of other monarchs. I thought that applied literally to other Monarchs - but I could be in error.
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