Coronation of British Monarchs

[eya]

Prince Michael of Kent and his memories from the coronation of the Queen on 2 June in 1953

Prince Michael of Kent recalls Queen Elizabeth's coronation 65 years ago | Daily Mail Online

 

[Dman]

Prince Michael of Kent and his memories from the coronation of the Queen on 2 June in 1953

Prince Michael of Kent recalls Queen Elizabeth's coronation 65 years ago | Daily Mail Online

I will watch the program. Thanks for the link.

 

[cepe]

The Lord Great Chamberlain is an hereditary position and is current held by the 7th Marquis of Cholmondeley. That wouldn't change when Charles becomes King

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Great_Chamberlain

 

[Dman]

The beautiful thing about the future Coronations will be the fact that lots of diversity will be incorporated throughout the Coronation. Looking at the documentary today, one can see such a major lack of diversity in the 1953 event. People of color couldn’t see any reflection of themselves in such an occasion.

 

[wartenberg7]

The complete religious ceremony inside the Abbey in 1953!

 

[M. Payton]

The beautiful thing about the future Coronations will be the fact that lots of diversity will be incorporated throughout the Coronation. Looking at the documentary today, one can see such a major lack of diversity in the 1953 event. People of color couldn’t see any reflection of themselves in such an occasion.

This comment made me sad that anyone would feel left out of any important occasion in history just because they are a different race and color.....people that are involved in something like this should be there only if they can contribute to the occasion not because they are of a different race/color.

Race/color should have nothing to do with any event in history/life, it is for the people that are involved that is important......putting someone there who is not needed or can not contribute shows a lack of understanding to the very person who is put there for no other reason then race/color......

So should a person of each race/color on earth be put in all events just so that everyone feels welcome........

 

[jacqui24]

So should a person of each race/color on earth be put in all events just so that everyone feels welcome........

Of course not. But you can't tell me people of other races didn't have the capacity to achieve a right to be part of such historic event. And in the past, they were prevented from achieving their full potential. THAT's what is significant.

 

[Rudolph]

For the coronation of King Charles, ‘people of colour’ won’t play a part either. All the major players are white , which should come as no surprise.

 

[Dman]

This comment made me sad that anyone would feel left out of any important occasion in history just because they are a different race and color.....people that are involved in something like this should be there only if they can contribute to the occasion not because they are of a different race/color.

Race/color should have nothing to do with any event in history/life, it is for the people that are involved that is important......putting someone there who is not needed or can not contribute shows a lack of understanding to the very person who is put there for no other reason then race/color......

So should a person of each race/color on earth be put in all events just so that everyone feels welcome........

Many people of different ethnic backgrounds can contribute to such a grand and beautiful occasion.

1953 was a different time and era. Future Coronations will reflect the beauty of a very diverse nation and Commonwealth. A different world will be watching and will be able to see themselves reflected in the Coronation.

For the coronation of King Charles, ‘people of colour’ won’t play a part either. All the major players are white , which should come as no surprise.

The King’s daughter-in-law (who’s a woman of color) will be front and center to watch the crowning. Folks should want diversity incorporated into these Coronations.

 

[cepe]

For the coronation of King Charles, ‘people of colour’ won’t play a part either. All the major players are white , which should come as no surprise.

Within the Anglican church, that is not the case. (There will be female clergy taking part also as there are now female bishops)

I think we will find that because HoL is not based on hereditary peerages any more, representatives could be "people of colour".

And as Charles wants other religions represented as part of the service, the same could apply there.

 

[Rudolph]

Folks should want diversity incorporated into these Coronations.

I understand you’re a person of colour, but I fail to understand why folks ‘should want diversity’ in the coronation.

Last time I checked black people amounted to about 7% of the British population.

 

[wyevale]

Folks should want

So, SO busy telling us what we 'should' want [for our most Sacred National Rite].. I cant recall us telling you anything of the sort since 1776..

 

[M. Payton]

Of course not. But you can't tell me people of other races didn't have the capacity to achieve a right to be part of such historic event. And in the past, they were prevented from achieving their full potential. THAT's what is significant.

I *did not* say that anyone didn't or doesn't have the capacity to achieve a right to be part of any historic event.......if anyone today can achieve whatever it takes to be part of any historic event then so be it.......the past is just that, *the past* and today is a very different time for all of us.....all colors, all races and all sexes.

 

[Osipi]

All arguments aside on the "diversity" in the coronation ceremony between 1953 and the upcoming coronation of Charles, what it does show me is just how far we've come in that time and also points out how far we still need to go.

I'll be happy when there's no need any longer to point out "diversity" and label people such as "people of color" or by anything else. When people just see people as other people sharing their earth, it will be a dream come true for me.

Perhaps not in my lifetime but one can dream. ?

 

[M. Payton]

I understand you’re a person of colour, but I fail to understand why folks ‘should want diversity’ in the coronation.

Last time I checked black people amounted to about 7% of the British population.[/B[/]QUOTE]

That comment right there in BOLD has absolutely nothing to do with who is in the coronation at all....it does not matter about the percentages of the population nor how many are black, white, yellow or any other color, again the main thing is that *everyone in the coronation has a place where they contribute to the event, it does not matter about color at all*, bring color into it shows racism to a high degree and that really bugs the hell out of me.....I know racism to a 100th degree, I experienced it so that shows me that some are still hung up on color today.....when are we going to just judge people for their actions, their behavior, their kindness, their compassion in life instead of looking at color.......time we get over color in this world.....Charles will do as King Charles wants for his coronation and not what the color of the people want nor the percentages either......and it will be glorious and spiritually awakening for all the people.

 

[Rudolph]

M.Payton

The coronation is what the government wants it to be. No doubt it will be the most achingly right on and politically correct event in history.

The coronation of Charles, will be a shadow of his mother’s. Unfortunately, it’s just the way it is.

 

[M. Payton]

Yes the government will have their way and I also believe whole heartily that Charles will have a huge input into his coronation when the time arises. After all Charles will be king and it does not matter who in history has the bigger, or better or more glorious coronation, what matters is that it takes place with all involved.

 

[Dman]

All arguments aside on the "diversity" in the coronation ceremony between 1953 and the upcoming coronation of Charles, what it does show me is just how far we've come in that time and also points out how far we still need to go.

I'll be happy when there's no need any longer to point out "diversity" and label people such as "people of color" or by anything else. When people just see people as other people sharing their earth, it will be a dream come true for me.

Perhaps not in my lifetime but one can dream. ?

Yes, we’ve come a long, but we certainly have a long way to go indeed.

I never want to come off as telling people what they should want. It’s just that it’s a good thing when people of other races are reflected in our institutions, because it represents what our nations look like.

I completely understand that 1953 was a different time and place. I just hope people understand that incorporating diversity into the Coronation takes nothing away from the traditions and grandeur of the event. The United Kingdom, the realms and Commonwealth has changed dramatically for the better. People from all different walks of life are part of the Family of Nations.

Charles, William and George’s future Coronations must reflect the diverse backgrounds of the Kingdom.

I think everyone should know that we’ll never see another Coronation like the 1953 version again. Times have changed and the institution of the Monarchy have to adapt to that change.

 

[alvinking]

For the coronation of King Charles, ‘people of colour’ won’t play a part either. All the major players are white , which should come as no surprise.

Well as of now, the Lord Archbishop of York and Primate of England, the second most senior clerical position in the Church of England after that of Archbishop of Canterbury, Primate of All England, and indeed a key players is the coronation ceremony along with the Archbishop of Canterbury is His Grace The Most Reverend and Right Honourable John Sentamu, is a black man born near Kampala in present-day Uganda and he has been Archbishop of York since 2005. So your statement is factually wrong

 

[Rudolph]

Well as of now, the Lord Archbishop of York and Primate of England, the second most senior clerical position in the Church of England after that of Archbishop of Canterbury, Primate of All England, and indeed a key players is the coronation ceremony along with the Archbishop of Canterbury is His Grace The Most Reverend and Right Honourable John Sentamu, is a black man born near Kampala in present-day Uganda and he has been Archbishop of York since 2005. So your statement is factually wrong

Well remove John Setumu and I’m correct. It’s the Archbishop of Canterbury who crowns the monarch. All the great officers of state, all the hereditary peers, all the ‘great and the good ‘ are ‘white Anglo Saxon Protestants’.

 

[M. Payton]

You can NOT remove the man just to prove your right .........he is there period!
And there is nothing wrong with that either........*WE ARE ALL PEOPLE OF THIS EARTH, ONE PLANET so lets get along with each other........

And the Commonwealth is not made up of all white angle Saxon Protestants either......

 

[Curryong]

Indeed not. Representatives of the Commonwealth, one of the most diverse organisations on earth, will play its part in the Coronation festivities. No doubt about that!

 

[PetticoatLane]

I've literally never, not even once, looked at the footage of that astonishing, moving and (even though I'm an atheist) deeply sacred event and thought to myself, 'do you know what this needs? More 'people of colour' to really make it work'. Good grief.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Well remove John Setumu and I’m correct. It’s the Archbishop of Canterbury who crowns the monarch. All the great officers of state, all the hereditary peers, all the ‘great and the good ‘ are ‘white Anglo Saxon Protestants’.

The Earl Marshal - the senior non-royal Duke in the UK is not a Protestant. He and his ancestors (with one exception) are Roman Catholic and have never converted and yet kept that hereditary position from Henry VIII onwards (other than the time the title was withheld after Elizabeth I executed the holder of the title for treason - and he was a 'cousin' as well).

The Earl Marshal is the Duke of Norfolk and he will be instrumental in the planning of the coronation. He currently has the plans for the Queen's funeral, Philip's funeral, Charles' funeral, accession and coronation (and probably William's accession and coronation) already on his computer. It is part of his job. He may be white and Anglo-Saxon but he is most definitely not protestant and he will have a major part to play in the coronation.

That makes two of the major players who aren't 'white Anglo-Saxon protestants' at least.

Indeed not. Representatives of the Commonwealth, one of the most diverse organisations on earth, will play its part in the Coronation festivities. No doubt about that!

As they did in 1953, 1937, 1911 and 1902 - as the empire and commonwealth troops were heavily involved in the parades etc that took place on coronation day.

The last coronation with no diversity on show at all was 1838 with Queen Victoria when there weren't empire troops involved.

 

[Rudolph]

I've literally never, not even once, looked at the footage of that astonishing, moving and (even though I'm an atheist) deeply sacred event and thought to myself, 'do you know what this needs? More 'people of colour' to really make it work'. Good grief.

Be careful of what you say. They will come for you.

@Iluvbertie, as you know, the coronation is an entirely Anglican ceremony. The Duke of Norfolk is involved in the planning but doesn’t actually have any say in it.

 

[Osipi]

Charles' coronation most likely will reflect his mother's in almost every way except for changes that Charles himself would like to implement. Its a traditional ceremony that dates back into the reaches of history and will reflect that with all the pomp and the pageantry and the use of historical regal regalia and of course, Edward the Confessor's chair which was created in 1300. Its a ceremony of continuity of the monarchy of the UK.

Its a reflection of the past as much as it is a hope for the future. Its not to make a politically correct statement. Its not to enhance or portray the current climate of the UK nor is it a display of who's who but more a reenactment of the coronations of kings and queens that have come before and built the UK into what it is today.

Its what the British monarchy does best and it unites the people of the UK in celebration of their nation. Its the ceremony itself that is pertinent and not the players that participate so much. Some things stay unchanged for a reason and preserved as much as possible so that future generations can get a sense of continuity today as much as they did the day Queen Elizabeth I was crowned Queen and George III and George VI and so forth and so on. *That* is what really matters. At least to me.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Well remove John Setumu and I’m correct. It’s the Archbishop of Canterbury who crowns the monarch. All the great officers of state, all the hereditary peers, all the ‘great and the good ‘ are ‘white Anglo Saxon Protestants’.

No, a number of the hereditary peers are actually Roman Catholic and not Protestant at all, including the Duke of Norfolk.
And I'm sure many representatives of Commonwealth countries will be people of color.

The Coronation ceremony has existed 1000 years, how do you propose they change it to be more inclusive?

 

[Iluvbertie]

@Iluvbertie, as you know, the coronation is an entirely Anglican ceremony. The Duke of Norfolk is involved in the planning but doesn’t actually have any say in it.

How can he be involved in planning it - and not be 'involved' in it. Of course he is involved in it - he is the leading peer and so has to actually be the Duke who takes the oath on behalf of all the other Dukes for instance.

He is one of the people who actually asks the congregation: "Sirs, I here present unto you Queen Elizabeth, your undoubted Queen: wherefore all you who are come this day to do your homage and service, are you willing to do the same?" - so he has something to even say in the ceremony.

There is more to the ceremony than just the 'religious' side. There is the acknowledgement and oaths. Sure the crowning and the communion is Anglican but the rest is largely ceremonial and could be done in a church or in a park and the Duke is heavily involved in that.

He takes an active part in the ceremony not just a side show and is front and centre throughout.

 

[Rudolph]

How can he be involved in planning it - and not be 'involved' in it. Of course he is involved in it - he is the leading peer and so has to actually be the Duke who takes the oath on behalf of all the other Dukes for instance.

He is one of the people who actually asks the congregation: "Sirs, I here present unto you Queen Elizabeth, your undoubted Queen: wherefore all you who are come this day to do your homage and service, are you willing to do the same?" - so he has something to even say in the ceremony.

There is more to the ceremony than just the 'religious' side. There is the acknowledgement and oaths. Sure the crowning and the communion is Anglican but the rest is largely ceremonial and could be done in a church or in a park and the Duke is heavily involved in that.

He takes an active part in the ceremony not just a side show and is front and centre throughout.

Again, Iluvbertie, you know better than this. What you’re trying to suggest is, that because the Earl Marshall is Roman Catholic, he somehow is influencing the coronation.

First we must remember the coronation is merely window dressing, it doesn’t make a king or queen.

As for the symbolism involved in the actual ceremony, it’s entirely Protestant. The RC church plays no part.

The Earl Marshal isn’t there as a catholic, it just happens the holder of the office is catholic.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Again, Iluvbertie, you know better than this. What you’re trying to suggest is, that because the Earl Marshall is Roman Catholic, he somehow is influencing the coronation.

First we must remember the coronation is merely window dressing, it doesn’t make a king or queen.

As for the symbolism involved in the actual ceremony, it’s entirely Protestant. The RC church plays no part.

The Earl Marshal isn’t there as a catholic, it just happens the holder of the office is catholic.

I think you are reading things into Iluvbertie's response that were not there.

No one suggested that because the Duke of Norfolk is Roman Catholic he would try to put Catholic components into the Coronation--except you. And you were the one who originally said everyone involved was Protestant, which it was pointed out--they are not.