Christie's Auction of the late Duke and Duchess of Kent's Estate: November 2009

[susan alicia]

Agree with the beauty (but she is not a patrician)

Thanks for the link!
I truly enjoyed looking through the catalogue. Princess Marina of Kent is a patrician beauty personified.
I wish I could afford to bid for tapestries and paintings, especially the portrait of Duchess of Argyll (pp.58-59).

 

[maria-olivia]

What are the 3 Kents wishes:
1. allowing museums or fans of the RF to buy "unique" royal items such as the pictures .
2. having the most amount of money , allowing "new rich millionaires" to buy royal items at huge amounts and to show them..
What do you think ??

 

[SLV]

I wonder if they let the other Royals look at it first, in case any of them wanted anything.

 

[Al_bina]

I hope I am not veering off the topic too much...

Agree with the beauty (but she is not a patrician)

(my bolding)
Why not? Princess Marina of Kent did belong to the highest class in the British society and was a full-blooded Princess. Sometimes the word "patrician" is used as a synonym of "aristocratic" or "noble". At the same time, I know the etymology of the word "patrician".

 

[Saragli]

I have always wondered what the word "patrician" meant. Grace Kelly is usually described as a "patrician" beauty and I assumed that meant a beautiful rich white person.

 

[Odette]

(my bolding)
Why not? Princess Marina of Kent did belong to the highest class in the British society and was a full-blooded Princess. The word "patrician" is sometimes used as a synonym of "aristocratic" or "noble". At the same time, I know the etymology of the word "patrician".

Princess Marina was Russian by her Grand Duchess Mother and Greek
(Danish- Russian) by her Prince father.
I agree with your explanations on the characterization of the "patrician" look. She was as Royal as it could get.

PS I could not open the catalogue.

 

[susan alicia]

I do not know the system in all countries, perhaps Holland is the only country that has a different meaning to the word, if your family is part of the nobility they are mentioned in the red book, if your family is part of the patricians they are in the blue book. That is why I thought Princess Marina is not a patrician.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrician_(post-Roman_Europe)
...These are registered in Nederland's Patriciaat colloquially called 'The Blue Book'. To be eligible for entry families must have played an active and important role in Dutch society, fulfilling high positions in the government, in prestigious commissions and in other prominent public posts for over six generations or 150 years.....

(my bolding)
Why not? Princess Marina of Kent did belong to the highest class in the British society and was a full-blooded Princess. Sometimes the word "patrician" is used as a synonym of "aristocratic" or "noble". At the same time, I know the etymology of the word "patrician".

 

[Zonk]

Susan_Alicia...thank you for sharing that information. I see where the confusion came from.

As previously mentioned in the States, the term is usually associated with the upper class. Moreso the old money. Not with the new money..... the term would never be associated with the Trumps or Hiltons for example. And honestly, I think the passage of time and Grace's position allowed it to be associated with her.

 

[Warren]

'Patrician' is one of those words which once had a very specific meaning but which is now, in English at least, used in differing senses, eg:

patrician looks (elegant, handsome, classic, refined: a positive),
patrician tastes (champagne and caviar: not so positive),
patrician attitude (arrogant: a negative).

 

[Mermaid1962]

Yes, that's how I understand the term as well. At the very least, it describes someone who's well-to-do and refined.

As previously mentioned in the States, the term is usually associated with the upper class.

 

[Marsel]

The sale of Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna's jewellery raised about 3 times the initial estimate.

The sapphire demi-parure was the one I had described earlier in this thread. The necklace and rings were sold as separate lots.

More information in this article.
* originally posted by Benjamin in Romanov Jewels thread.

 

[Marsel]

Not quite $10 million but still quite impressive: Christie's auction made £2.1million.
That joins the approximately $4 million made from Sotheby’s auction, so the Kents have some cause for celebration (admittedly, they’ll get only small portion of the Sotheby’s profits).


Pushy's £2m boot sale: Prince and Princess of Kent flog off the family silver (and get twice what they expected)

She has claimed that money is so tight she would 'go anywhere for a hot meal'.
Now Princess Michael of Kent might be able to afford to have one made at home.
She is to benefit from a £2.1million windfall after her husband, the Queen's cousin, had great success selling off the family silver.

Along with his brother, The Duke of Kent, and sister, Princess Alexandra, Prince Michael auctioned more than 300 heirlooms from his late parents' estate at Christie's yesterday.

DM used the chance to have another go at Princess Michael. Don't they get tired of inserting 'Pushy' into every single article that has anything to do with the Kents?

 

[Connie Cutmantle]

Spot on Marsel about that vile rag that masquerades as a popular newspaper!!! It really was so 'refreshingly unexpected' (NOT!!!) to see the Daily Mail still giving the auction such an unsubtle slant against the Michaels! Two pictures of the them and the banner headline 'Pushy'.....I wish everyone would boycott the wretched Daily Mail as many did after Jan Moir's disgusting comments about Stephen Gately!!!!!! You may be able to tell that my loathing for the Daily Mail is quite deep rooted....My feelings for the Daily Mail are equatable to Inspector Dreyfuss' feelings towards Clousseau in the original Pink Panther films. I get a twitch just thinking about the pernicious Daily Mail!!!!! Maybe we should start a thread - 'Why we loathe the Daily Mail!' Then again....such a thread would just fuel readership numbers generally which would be counterproductive! Esepcially as we would have to use links to illustrate our points of contention!

Anyway, the Duke, Princess Alexandra and Prince Michael should hopefully be pleased with the results of the auction! I do wander where the portrait of Louise Argyll is going!!!!! I shall be very upset if it ends up in the Getty or somewhere else outside Britain!!!!!

 

[Zonk]

Please note that posts regarding the death of Prince George, Duke of Kent have been moved to the following thread http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...942-and-princess-marina-1906-1968-a-7953.html .

Please feel free to continue the discussion of the Duke's death as well as the financial difficulities that Princess Marina faced following his death over there.

Thanks!

Zonk
British Forums Moderator

 

[sophie25]

I have come to the conclusion that whoever owns/edits the DM must have a personal vendetta against Princess M as it's not just one of their journalists that write about her in this way but all of them so they must be getting told to do it from their bosses. In the case of this sale it's a well known fact that it was a joint family effort but for the sake of attacking her the Duke of Kent and Alexandra are only briefly mentioned in the article. How many other stories about her where the details are not so well known are similarly skewed. I suspect it's most of them. Whoever is responsible for this camapign at the DM should realise that among those more informed the stories no longer reflect badly on her but on the paper itself as this is nothing more than down right bullying. Unfortunatley among those less informed I suspect the stories are taken at face value thus resulting in many peoples dislike of her.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I have come to the conclusion that whoever owns/edits the DM must have a personal vendetta against Princess M as it's not just one of their journalists that write about her in this way but all of them so they must be getting told to do it from their bosses. In the case of this sale it's a well known fact that it was a joint family effort but for the sake of attacking her the Duke of Kent and Alexandra are only briefly mentioned in the article. How many other stories about her where the details are not so well known are similarly skewed. I suspect it's most of them. Whoever is responsible for this camapign at the DM should realise that among those more informed the stories no longer reflect badly on her but on the paper itself as this is nothing more than down right bullying. Unfortunatley among those less informed I suspect the stories are taken at face value thus resulting in many peoples dislike of her.

The DM is anti-monarchy altogether but won't attack the Queen directly but everyone else is fair game as far as they are concerned. The only others that ever really get any leeway are William and Harry because they are 'Diana's boys' and the Daily Mail lost a cash cow when she died, so they do run positive stories about the young princes but never positive stories about Beatrice and Eugenie, Camilla or a lot of the rest of the family.

 

[Connie Cutmantle]

I absolutely concur Angela and Iluvbertie...you are so right! It is just such a shame that the DM is still accepted as the 'Middle England' newspaper! It gives the nation as a whole a bad name and reflects dreadfully on the whole rather than the so called Middle classes! Viscount Rothermere owns that rag......his sister in law is married to Sir Mark Thatcher!

Oh sorry lets get back on topic....sorry Mods I got carried away and couldn't keep away....dog with a bone and all that..... sorry!


Does anyone know who now owns the de Laszlo of Louise Argyll? I am still praying the owner is British!

 

[Vecchiolarry]

Hi Everyone,

I don't get or read the Daily Mail over here in Canada, only see articles from it posted here.
But, I do wonder if they know any new words to describe people, especially Princess Michael. They can't have a very wide or well grounded knowledge of English, if they are stuck repeating the same "Pushy" word over & over.

It's like those people who continuously repeat the words 'amazing', 'awesome' & 'fantastic'... Very few people, places or things are ever those words...

Personally, I like Princess Michael, although I've never seen her or met her in person.
She is smart (all those books) and glamourous & elegant (the wardrobe) and she still looks good.
I think the word 'envy' needs applyng to those writer on the Daily Mail and all her detracters...

Larry

PS - Several years ago, Lord Linley said he would wish any enemy(ies) of his, as a punishment, dinner with Princess Michael.
Well, I would rather eat with her, than him - he's a real dolt!!

 

[iowabelle]

I wonder if the Kents are disappointed with the results. That's substantially less than I expected... although I'm not ever likely to have 2.1 million pounds on hand!

 

[Patra]

I thought they would make about double the originally estimated 1.25 million pounds, they should be pleased, as Im sure every bit helps the kents now!

 

[Marsel]

I think they will be reasonably glad with the auction results. And bear in mind that quite a few items didn't sell (the bids were lower than the reserve price), so £2 million is for the sold-items only.

 

[maria-olivia]

Why were the earrings Princess MC received from the Duchess of Windsor unsold ??

 

[Patra]

Good question, I was wondering that myself....I can imagine them not getting the estimated bid, as almost all the other jewelry got 3 times their estimated value.

Maybe it was pulled out by the Princess MC for some reason?

 

[Marsel]

No, Princess Michael didn't pull out any items from the auction.

Actually, a lot of interesting lots weren't sold. For example, the George VI chair and footstool’s reserve price was £15,000 but the highest bid was about £8,000. Similarly, the Duchess of Windsor's earrings' reserve price was £50,000 but the highest bid was around £30,000. Those items relied heavily on their historical connections, not actual value.

 

[Zonk]

Wow no one purchased the Duchess of Windsors earrings. Interesting....especially as per her will she only gave the Kent's any jewels upon her death.

Now do they have to pay any special tax on this?

 

[Dierna23]

To be entirely honest, I found the earrings quite ugly and tasteless, I may be the only one... However, nevertheless I'm wondering too why they haven't been sold as they once belonged the Duchess of Windsor.
The results of the auction are less than I expected (maybe it's just not the best idea to start such an auction during the economy crisis?), but still a good help for a family with financial problems as it the Kent branch seems to be.

 

[Zonk]

Sometimes you have to strike when the iron is hot.

When the late Duchess's items were on auction, the world economy was good. People could purchase things simply for nostalgia. Furthermore, she had just died what two years prior....so name recognition was wild. Nowadays, the only people who have heard of the Windsor are those from the geneartions that grew up with the Abdication and/or reading about their expoits in the paper and frankly us, the royalty watchers.

Most likely if you asked a 20 to 30 year old on ANY street (London, New York, Rome, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, etc) unless they are into royalty they don't know who the Duke and Duchess of Windsor are.

My only concern regarding this auction, is God forbid what happens when the Duke of Kent dies. The death tax might take up whatever they have left. Thank goodness, the next generation has jobs.

 

[Marsel]

Wow no one purchased the Duchess of Windsors earrings. Interesting....especially as per her will she only gave the Kent's any jewels upon her death.
Now do they have to pay any special tax on this?

This is Britain we're talking about: of course there are taxes.

First of all, there is the commission paid to the auction house (which is included in the final selling prices): the rates are 25% (excluding tax) of the first £15,000, 20% (excluding tax) for up to £600,000 and 12% (excluding tax) from £600,000 and up.

As for the tax itself, it is different for every item or auction. For example, if the lots are sold to public museums, galleries, the National Trust, National Arts Collections and similar institutions (pre-eminent for their national, historical, scientific or artistic interest), the Government offers a tax inducement, usually equivalent to around 25% of the tax that would have otherwise been paid.
Then there is also the location of the sale: for example, places like Geneva or New York are considered tax-privileged locations, whereas London is tax hell.
In normal cases, taxation works similar to ordinary sales (which means, different taxes for works of art, jewellery, different rates for items sold at different prices, locations, etc).

Considering the nature of the items sold at the Christie’s, the selling prices of each individual item and the location, I’d say the Kents will never see about 40-45% of the £2.1 million (after paying all the taxes and Christie's commission). Still £1.3 isn't too bad as well.

My only concern regarding this auction, is God forbid what happens when the Duke of Kent dies. The death tax might take up whatever they have left. Thank goodness, the next generation has jobs.

If such unfortunate event were to take place, they would need a couple of more auctions to cover the DT. Don't forget that most of Kents' assets are not in currency but in land, properties, jewellery, etc: in order to pay the DT, they'd have to sell quite a few family heirlooms - 40% of the total estate value would be a burden for anyone.

 

[susan alicia]

While you and I do not . I admire your empathy with the Royals

Sometimes you have to strike when the iron is hot.

When the late Duchess's items were on auction, the world economy was good. People could purchase things simply for nostalgia. Furthermore, she had just died what two years prior....so name recognition was wild. Nowadays, the only people who have heard of the Windsor are those from the geneartions that grew up with the Abdication and/or reading about their expoits in the paper and frankly us, the royalty watchers.

Most likely if you asked a 20 to 30 year old on ANY street (London, New York, Rome, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, etc) unless they are into royalty they don't know who the Duke and Duchess of Windsor are.

My only concern regarding this auction, is God forbid what happens when the Duke of Kent dies. The death tax might take up whatever they have left.

Thank goodness, the next generation has jobs

.

 

[Zonk]

My empathy is the selling of family heirlooms.

Needless to say the Kents and I are in VERY different economic circumstances. Most likely their idea of struglling is my idea of living VERY NICE. I just think its sad, that one must sell off family heirlooms to pay the Tax Man. In order to save for the next generation and pass items along, one must really make enough during one's life time to pay the taxes when you die. Its silly.

The smart thing to do IMO would be to invest it i.e. stocks or real estate. The economy will eventually rebound and its best to purchase when things are low. How is the real estate market in London? I remember 10 to 15 years ago one could buy a one bedroom condo in Georgetown for like 50K. At the height of the real estate boom, you could sell it for like 300K. I think they are going for around 150-200K now.