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  #841  
Old 12-30-2013, 04:35 AM
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She wouldn't wait a few extra minutes to receive flowers from the children who had gathered to present posies to her because she had been late for lunch on Christmas Day? If this is indeed the reason, I don't think it's a very good one. Not very good for PR, Your Majesty.
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  #842  
Old 12-30-2013, 05:22 AM
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I am a little bemused by such fuss over this and VERY much doubt the Queen would prefer an early lunch over greeting the public. Quite frankly, if people want to treck half way round the country to MAKE their children hand over flowers to the Queen, they take the risk that they will not be able to do so - it's common sense!
How many thousands of people turn up at royal events throughout the year all over the world to get a glimpse of royalty only to be disappointed that the crowd is too big or the car went by too quickly or they didn't shove their children to the front soon enough, or if they did, the child doesn't actually want to give the flowers over to the strange lady in the big hat??!
What's going to happen next time....."my child wants to give you flowers and if you don't stop and let him give them to you, I'll make him join the republic movement"?!
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  #843  
Old 12-30-2013, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
Re: St. Mary Magdalene Church

Has anyone ever visited? How large is it - how big a congregation can it hold?

Parish Church of St Mary Magdalene, Sandringham | Sandringham Estate
you can see the church inside from 5:10
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  #844  
Old 12-30-2013, 06:00 AM
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What method of transportation do each members of the RF use to get to and from Sandringham?

I know the Queen & Phillip came on the train. Do they go back on the train?

From Sandringham to Raymill is a 4 hour drive about 220 miles.
From Sandringham to Buckleburry is about 157 miles which takes about 3 hours and fifteen minute drive. (per google)

That seems like a long drive especially with no stops.
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  #845  
Old 12-30-2013, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
I am a little bemused by such fuss over this and VERY much doubt the Queen would prefer an early lunch over greeting the public. Quite frankly, if people want to treck half way round the country to MAKE their children hand over flowers to the Queen, they take the risk that they will not be able to do so - it's common sense!
How many thousands of people turn up at royal events throughout the year all over the world to get a glimpse of royalty only to be disappointed that the crowd is too big or the car went by too quickly or they didn't shove their children to the front soon enough, or if they did, the child doesn't actually want to give the flowers over to the strange lady in the big hat??!
What's going to happen next time....."my child wants to give you flowers and if you don't stop and let him give them to you, I'll make him join the republic movement"?!
I agree completely that anybody who goes to see a member of a royal family risks completely the chance they may to see them for a variety of reasons and to act as if they have been hard doe by or wronged for some reason because of it is ridiculous. Royals are people and can't meet everyone or appear on demand.
That being said the Queen, more than perhaps any other royal, is a stickler for tradition and doing the same thing time after time. The fact is this is a break with what normally happens, she has accepted flowers may times before so why not now?
Change is not a bad thing and most people would likely accept that at her age the Queen doesn't really want to necessarily spend time in the cold collecting flowers (that she most likely doesn't see again).
However to me the issue is how its been handled, one report said it was a policeman who told the crowd that because she had accepted flowers on Christmas day she was late for lunch but equally the BBC reported that this was at the least confirmed by palace officials. It doesn't take a PR genius to see that this is a ridiculous reason to give for not collecting flowers from children and that the media will spin it into effectively snatching candy from a baby. If the Queen doesn't want to collect flowers because she is too tired, too old, too cold or even if she simply doesn't really want people waiting outside a church for her every time she goes, then that is fair enough (and I can see why any of those would be a good reason). BUT the Palace should say so, not let it be said that dinner being served on time is more important than greeting the public (and as the media have spun it, children) this just lets the media suggest the Queen looks distant, uncaring and rather imperious IMO.
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  #846  
Old 12-30-2013, 06:34 AM
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In the DM article, it stated that the Queen doesn't always collect flowers per her office.

The officer was the only one that made the comment about being late for lunch and her office stated that the Queen eats late.
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  #847  
Old 12-30-2013, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
In the DM article, it stated that the Queen doesn't always collect flowers per her office.

The officer was the only one that made the comment about being late for lunch and her office stated that the Queen eats late.
There is a woman that knows how to bow out gracefully when needed. Her time at Sandringham is her "away" time and private. Where is it written that she owes the gathering?

Personally I bet she needed to use the loo. Anyone check her outfit to see a hint of a Depends or like?

I seriously hope the DM doesn't read this forum.. I'm just surmising is all.
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  #848  
Old 12-30-2013, 07:49 AM
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There are a few issues involved here.

1. The Queen has just delivered a Christmas Message in which she reminded us of the pledge of lifetime duty to her subjects which she made 60 years ago.
2. As part of that duty over the years, the Queen has made a habit of walkabouts among her subjects and receiving bunches of flowers from them. Now, I think that receiving of bunches of flowers businiess was a strange habit to encourage, because no secret is made of the fact she doesn't keep them, but it is now traditional for people to give them to her and for children, particularly, to do so, no doubt encouraged by their parents.
3. When the Queen does the same thing at the same place year in, year out, it's not unreasonable for her subjects to expect her to keep doing that thing.
4. The Queen is getting on and it's reasonable for her to change her habits and with her advancing age it's likely that there will be sudden changes to her plans due to her suddenly becoming tired or not feeling well, etc., but when one of these traditions involving the all-important connection between monarch and subjects is to be varied, the public needs to be given notice of it or, where notice is not possible, at least be given a good explanation because often they will have spent a lot of time in uncomfortable conditions getting ready for and travelling to and waiting at the venue. The statement that Her Majesty didn't want to be late for lunch, whether true or not, is NOT a good explanation, and her PR people should have been better prepared.
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  #849  
Old 12-30-2013, 07:55 AM
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Maybe she was unwell.

The article does state that Princess Anne smiled when she saw her mother's car. Maybe the Queen wasn't going to attend church because she was unwell but changed her mind.

Clearly Princess Anne knew ahead of time, she was going to collect the flowers for the Queen. Has Princess Anne previously collected flowers for the Queen after the Sunday service or was this a "break in tradition"?
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  #850  
Old 12-30-2013, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
Re: St. Mary Magdalene Church

Has anyone ever visited? How large is it - how big a congregation can it hold?

Parish Church of St Mary Magdalene, Sandringham | Sandringham Estate
Here's some additional information on the church

St. Mary Magdalene Church, Sandringham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From this lovely photo the church appears to be quite close to Sandringham house.

http://blog.londonconnection.com/wp-...3.13.37-PM.png
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  #851  
Old 12-30-2013, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
What method of transportation do each members of the RF use to get to and from Sandringham?

I know the Queen & Phillip came on the train. Do they go back on the train?

From Sandringham to Raymill is a 4 hour drive about 220 miles.
From Sandringham to Buckleburry is about 157 miles which takes about 3 hours and fifteen minute drive. (per google)

That seems like a long drive especially with no stops.
I think they normally all drive to Sandringham, as I remember one year Lady Sarah and her family were seen leaving by their Land Rover with lots of presents in the boot.
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  #852  
Old 12-30-2013, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
There are a few issues involved here.

1. The Queen has just delivered a Christmas Message in which she reminded us of the pledge of lifetime duty to her subjects which she made 60 years ago.
2. As part of that duty over the years, the Queen has made a habit of walkabouts among her subjects and receiving bunches of flowers from them. Now, I think that receiving of bunches of flowers businiess was a strange habit to encourage, because no secret is made of the fact she doesn't keep them, but it is now traditional for people to give them to her and for children, particularly, to do so, no doubt encouraged by their parents.
3. When the Queen does the same thing at the same place year in, year out, it's not unreasonable for her subjects to expect her to keep doing that thing.
4. The Queen is getting on and it's reasonable for her to change her habits and with her advancing age it's likely that there will be sudden changes to her plans due to her suddenly becoming tired or not feeling well, etc., but when one of these traditions involving the all-important connection between monarch and subjects is to be varied, the public needs to be given notice of it or, where notice is not possible, at least be given a good explanation because often they will have spent a lot of time in uncomfortable conditions getting ready for and travelling to and waiting at the venue. The statement that Her Majesty didn't want to be late for lunch, whether true or not, is NOT a good explanation, and her PR people should have been better prepared.
I agree with all of this, if the Palace had simply said in advance that she wasn't going to collect flowers then, yes there would hve been a fuss about it but not in the same way ('my poor child stood in the cold for hours while the queen drove by so she wouldn't b late for lunch') I wouldn't care at all if the Queen after so many years of hrd work said I'm never going to collect another bunch of flowers again but there is a way for the palace to manage public expections and on this occasion they failed in a BIG way.
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  #853  
Old 12-30-2013, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
you can see the church inside from 5:10

Ion the video is Princes Anne wearing the same outfit she wore on Sunday? The hat looks the same
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  #854  
Old 12-30-2013, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Ion the video is Princes Anne wearing the same outfit she wore on Sunday? The hat looks the same
i think, yes, she is
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  #855  
Old 12-30-2013, 02:23 PM
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I like seeing the royals arrive at the house on 2:22 because it shows you where the royals are walking when they go and come from the house on Christmas and church. It also shows you the room where they gather in Sandringham.
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  #856  
Old 12-30-2013, 02:56 PM
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Oh, boo hoo! People who chose to drive a long way are disappointed because an 87-year-old woman was in a rush to get home on a cold day, and therefore HM has completely violated a promise made when she was 21?

And, yes, she could easily have needed the loo, despite being 'trained' to go before church. Most-dare I say ALL- women of a certain age or a lot older occasionally experience urgency. I wouldn't have wanted my 87-year-old mother to be criticized because she needed to get out of the cold in a hurry.

The Queen has been dutiful for so many years, and now all of a sudden the monarchy is at stake? It's hard to believe that people who have always supported and admired the Queen are going to go off on her at this stage of the game.

I think that people who are at heart republicans are projecting.
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  #857  
Old 12-30-2013, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
Oh, boo hoo! People who chose to drive a long way are disappointed because an 87-year-old woman was in a rush to get home on a cold day, and therefore HM has completely violated a promise made when she was 21?

And, yes, she could easily have needed the loo, despite being 'trained' to go before church. Most-dare I say ALL- women of a certain age or a lot older occasionally experience urgency. I wouldn't have wanted my 87-year-old mother to be criticized because she needed to get out of the cold in a hurry.

The Queen has been dutiful for so many years, and now all of a sudden the monarchy is at stake? It's hard to believe that people who have always supported and admired the Queen are going to go off on her at this stage of the game.

I think that people who are at heart republicans are projecting.
I totally agree with everything you said but I especially like the part that I have bolded.

Whether or not the Queen was tired, missed lunch the previous day, need to go to the restoom, the PR person spoke out of turn, the little boy was understandbly disappointed, Or WHATEVER at the end of the day...stuff happens. Sometimes things don't go as planned and we are disappointed. But you pick yourself up, dust yourself off and you move on.

If the British monarchy can withstand the English War of the Roses, the English Reformation, the Civil War, the Abdication Crisis and the War of the Walses, surely it can weather this storm.
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  #858  
Old 12-30-2013, 03:36 PM
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i agree wholeheartedly with Ladonglas and Zonk. And RichardPalmer oftheExpress made an important comment, that the Queen wasnt on a public engagement, but in a public place in an act of private worship. People needtoget a grip. The "she must do less, and the others do more" brigade, led by the DM, are now saying she must do what we want regardless of her age.

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  #859  
Old 12-30-2013, 04:42 PM
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Oh my goodness... tempest in a tea pot. She did not stop to collect flowers. Force her to abdicate. Jeez louise..the media makes the biggest deal of nothing at all.

I wonder you would all feel at Christmas when you walked to church and about 2,000 or so people lined up to stare and comment and push camera phones, etc in your face as though you were some animal in a zoo... commenting and criticizing your outfits, hats, hair, makeup, and shoes...
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  #860  
Old 12-30-2013, 05:09 PM
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Oh my goodness... tempest in a tea pot. She did not stop to collect flowers. Force her to abdicate. Jeez louise..the media makes the biggest deal of nothing at all.

I wonder you would all feel at Christmas when you walked to church and about 2,000 or so people lined up to stare and comment and push camera phones, etc in your face as though you were some animal in a zoo... commenting and criticizing your outfits, hats, hair, makeup, and shoes...
I'd absolutely hate it, but I'm not Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. She is a woman who has spent more than 60 years doing this very sort of thing and heretofore she's given every indication she enjoyed doing it. It's her life. It's part of the price she pays for that position of great privilege, and one of the ways of keeping public support. She made a point of vowing to do her duty it for the rest of her life. Frankly I have always thought it was naive and foolish of her to make that public vow, but when you're in your 20s you do things like that because you cannot imaging what it is like to be in your 80s and getting tired of it all. But the point is she is the monarch and it comes with the territory.

Her choices are not limited to the extremes of either continuing to do everything as she has in the past, or abdicating. At her age it's unreasonable to expect her to keep up the pace, but if she's going to deviate from what she's done for decades she should give notice of these plans. Everyone would understand if given notice.

As for the argument that it wasn't a public engagement, in my opinion in some ways that makes it worse. It was one of those things she has always done where she is able to privately connect with some of her subjects. And at a time of year when there is a focus on tradition and family and the symbiotic relationship between monarch and subject. So for her to, for whatever reason, not stop and collect those flowers has a symbolic significance which makes it a big deal. "I might have done it for years but that was because it suited me. It doesn't suit me today so I'm not going to do it. I'm the Queen and what I want is more important than what you want. And your little boy isn't important to me today. I've got a new great-grandson who is going to be future king. He's important, as I've just told you. Didn't you watch my speech?"
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