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  #121  
Old 04-23-2012, 08:04 PM
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Do the math however you like. Year after year, it's the same. Other, obviously, than Kate being added to the rostrum. Check the years since Camilla married into the BRF. Please, If I am wrong, post the year and statistics that Camilla even approached the number of engagements made by the present nearly centagenarian consort or the Princess Royal. Every year there is a 'Oh this year...she's sick, the weather doesnt agree with her, her DD/DIL is having a baby'. Say what you want about the first wife, but she was tireless doing engagements on behalf of the Firm, even while pregnant herself and with small children.
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  #122  
Old 04-23-2012, 11:13 PM
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Diana also entered the royal family at an age when women were expected to actually be in full-time work whereas Camilla has entered the family at an age when most women are expecting to retire.

Camilla has therefore started her working life at a much later time in life than most people and she puts her family first - something Diana would have applauded - but not Diana's fans unfortunately. Anyone who actually does the sort of things that Diana pushed is criticised by her fans and supporters it seems.

Instead of praising the royal family for learning from Diana they criticise the royal family for doing so.
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  #123  
Old 04-23-2012, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
I'm going to take your word for it that Cam has done 90 engagements already, I don't know if I am wrong in thinking that is a heck of a lot or if I am just comparing her to Kate. I have always had the idea that a spouse shouldn't necessarily do more royal work than their royal husband/wife or it could overshadow them or make them look bad.

I totally agree - the spouse is supposed to be a supporter not the star of the show.
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  #124  
Old 04-23-2012, 11:41 PM
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Can we please not turn this into another thread of Blessed Diana vs Evil Camilla. Surely there is a more appropriate thread that people can use to vent on that topic.
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  #125  
Old 04-24-2012, 04:57 PM
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I just think she should pull her weight. As certain others remind us at every turn she IS now Her Royal Highness Princess Charles, Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Chester, Baroness Renfew and High Stewardess of Scotland. She lives a life of unimaginable luxury and priveldge, including her very own escape from it all Ray Mill. At the very least the cruises on the Lysander and the Boucheron Tiara, etc should be worth doing the number of engagements her 91 year old father in law can manage. And frankly, if she wasn't willing to, perhaps she ought not have signed on.
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  #126  
Old 04-24-2012, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
I just think she should pull her weight. As certain others remind us at every turn she IS now Her Royal Highness Princess Charles, Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Chester, Baroness Renfew and High Stewardess of Scotland. She lives a life of unimaginable luxury and priveldge, including her very own escape from it all Ray Mill. At the very least the cruises on the Lysander and the Boucheron Tiara, etc should be worth doing the number of engagements her 91 year old father in law can manage. And frankly, if she wasn't willing to, perhaps she ought not have signed on.
I'd like to see you do what Camilla does and then complain. Being a member of the RF is hardly a have your cake and eat it to situation, and anyone that thinks so is deluded. You think she's not pulling her weight, that's fine. Statistics on the other hand show she's doing a fine job of supporting her husband.
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  #127  
Old 04-24-2012, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
I just think she should pull her weight. As certain others remind us at every turn she IS now Her Royal Highness Princess Charles, Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Chester, Baroness Renfew and High Stewardess of Scotland. She lives a life of unimaginable luxury and priveldge, including her very own escape from it all Ray Mill. At the very least the cruises on the Lysander and the Boucheron Tiara, etc should be worth doing the number of engagements her 91 year old father in law can manage. And frankly, if she wasn't willing to, perhaps she ought not have signed on.
Just out of curiosity, if Camilla were doing 1,000 engagements per year - would that change your opinion of her in any way?
Diana was a great representative of the country, she carried out her engagements with grace and enthusiasm, but she was in her 20's, whereas Camilla is in her 60's. Moreover, I'm not sure she actually did carry out more engagements than the Duchess. Kate has carried just handful of engagements in her first year, yet you seem to be more than willing to find excuses for her. In any case, surely the quality does prevail over quantity - and by all accounts, Camilla is very hands on with all her charities and patronages.

The way I see it, in her "worst" year Camilla did on average 0.65 official engagement per day - hardly a "bad" result at all. In fact, compared to most Crown Princesses of other countries who are half her age - a pretty good one. Just for comparison: Camilla had 233 official engagements in 2011, whereas Crown Princess Mette-Marit of Norway (who is 26 years younger) - only 63 (that's 170 less).

Just to make one thing clear: I have no intention to diminish in any way the work Diana did as a working member of the Royal Family, and Crown Princess Mette-Marit and the Duchess of Cambridge do currently supporting their respective spouses. I admire and respect all three and bought them as an example in this post because they were the first ones I thought of.
I also do not wish to go further off topic in this wonderful and informative thread so will henceforth refrain from answering any further off-topic posts. Waiting forward to weekly update from Iluvbertie!
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  #128  
Old 04-24-2012, 05:12 PM
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I think Camilla does a perfectly acceptable number of engagements. My mother retired at 55 and spends most of her time with her grandchildren and in her garden. She's now 59 (the same age Camilla was when she married Charles) and I can only imagine her reaction if I said to her now that she had to start performing hundreds of public engagements.

Camilla's also bound to know that her schedule will only increase when she's Queen, so I think she's right to see as much of her children and grandchildren now as she can, while also fulfilling her role as wife of the future king.
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  #129  
Old 04-24-2012, 05:16 PM
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One other point in Camilla's favour - if she wasn't pulling her weight then I don't believe the Queen would have made her GCVO.
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  #130  
Old 04-24-2012, 05:17 PM
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On top of everthing Camilla had surgery and then also she broke her leg. Both legimate reasons for a slower pace.
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  #131  
Old 04-28-2012, 12:24 AM
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NB This week’s list is up to date to the 26th April. This was a busy week for the royals - particularly the 26th April with most royals carrying out duties on that day, (I have a total of 60 engagements), except Harry, the York girls, and the minor Kents. I must remind people that these are my calculations alone and nothing official. I started it as a bit of fun for the Jubilee year and no doubt any more official count will differ. Remember that I count an engagement for a spouse when said spouse simply accompanies the royal who actually does something e.g. Philip accompanied the Queen on her engagements last week such as a 'visit' here or a 'viewing' so he gets credited with an engagement for accompanying the Queen (as does Camilla, Kate, Sophie etc).

I haven't included Tim Lawrence as so far I haven't seen him ever listed as doing something on his own. Now some will say - why the difference when you include the York girls and they have never done any engagement on their own but they are born royals so they get counted. Tim has accompaned Anne on a number of engagements throughout the year, particularly the overseas ones representing the Queen.

Before I get some people accuse me of double standards by including engagements for Camilla when she accompanies Charles but not for Tim when he accompanies Anne there is a reason - Camilla does do engagements on her own and Tim doesn't. If you only want engagements included by the primary royal then the spousal count for all spouses, except Kate surprisingly would drop over 80% of their current count (yes I was that bored).


HM The Queen - 143 (125 - up 18)
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh - 95 (76 - up 19)
HRH The Prince of Wales - 197 (190 – up 7)
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 93 (87 – up 6)
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 6 (2 - up 4)
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 30 (26 - up 4)
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 39 (38 – up 1)
HRH The Duke of York - 148 (132 - up 16)
HRH Princess Beatrice of York - 7 (7 - no change)
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 3 (3- no change)
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 139 (130 - up 9)
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 137 (129 – up 8)
HRH The Princess Royal - 190 (177 – up 13)
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 108 (102 – up 6)
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 33 (28 – up 5)
HRH The Duke of Kent - 52 (46 – up 6)
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 0 (0 no change)
HRH Prince Michael of Kent – 2 (2 – no change)
HRH Princess Michael of Kent – 2 (2 – no change)
HRH Princess Alexandra - 14 (12 – up 2)


Order from most downwards - the 'league table' if you like. I refuse to calculate how people are moving up or down that list.



HRH The Prince of Wales - 197
HRH The Princess Royal - 190
HRH The Duke of York - 148
HM The Queen – 143
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 139
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 137
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 108
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh – 95
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 93
HRH The Duke of Kent - 52
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 39
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 33
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 30
HRH Princess Alexandra - 14
HRH Princess Beatrice of York – 7
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 6
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 3
HRH Prince Michael of Kent – 2
HRH Princess Michael of Kent - 2
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 0

Year to date total - 1438 with 79% of those engagements being carried out by The Queen, her children and their spouses. The remaining 21% have been done by her grandchildren, first cousins and their spouses.
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  #132  
Old 04-28-2012, 08:54 AM
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While I know those are your personal calculations and not official ones, I always look forward to your weekly posts.
They give a nice summary of the week and a perspective; for example, I never thought Prince Richard was all that active.
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  #133  
Old 04-28-2012, 11:47 AM
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A very busy week for HM and the DoE. Also for Charles and Camilla; although their total isn't as high this week, they were on the Isle of Man and in Northern Ireland, so there'll have been a bit of travelling involved.
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  #134  
Old 04-28-2012, 04:48 PM
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The second day in Northern Ireland isn't included in these figures as the Friday CC isn't posted until Mondays in Britain and I do my weekly add on Saturday in Bathurst - so I am going from Thursday to Thursday which is why I put the date.

I too was surprised at how busy The Duke of Gloucester has been as I expected The Duke of Kent to do more, probably because of his regular appearances as Wimbledon. In addition The Duke of Gloucester has done his two overseas Jubilee tours while The Duke of Kent still has his two to come - The Falklands and Uganda.

The other one that does surprise many people is how much Andrew actually does, particularly at home. He has consistently been up there but many people just see him as a waste of space but he is a very busy working royal, with a tour of India to come - not the easiest place to tour.
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  #135  
Old 04-28-2012, 05:23 PM
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Andrew is so unfortunate; if not for your figures, Iluvbertie, I wouldn't be aware that he was anything like so hard-working. The only time the press ever mention him is when he's used the royal helicopter. I don't know how much of his poor public standing is his own fault, and how much is media embellishment, but he's certainly putting his shift in.

I should've said this in my earlier post but many thanks once again for your figures, Iluvbertie. It'll be interesting to compare and contrast your figures with Tim O'Donovan's when the time comes.
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  #136  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:19 PM
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Thank you for your weekly update Bertie. I always look forward to seeing what has been happening.

I second what has been said about Prince Andrew. I agree the press gets an image in their collective heads and it's hard to shake. Just the other day I was reading something about the Princess Royal and it again referred to her as the hardest working member of the Royal Family. Not to diminish what she does by any stretch because I'm a great admirer of hers, but the Prince of Wales has been performing more duties annually for a couple of years now.

The Duke of Gloucester and Sophie have also been surprises (as well as Andrew). I didn't realise how hard either of them worked without recognition. Camilla seems to be increasing her workload this year as well but at least the press seem to be recognising that.

One of the things that annoys me is when the press run their "what do we get for our money" stories or include a disgruntled member of the public in a documentary asking what the Royals do (and answering their own question - they don't do "nuffink") but then don't report what members of the Royal Family actually do (with a couple of notable exceptions - the Queen, William, Catherine and Harry).

I don't think anybody expects the newspapers or evening news to be filled with the daily goings on of the working Royal Family but a bit of recognition every now and again for those who fly under the radar would be nice.
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  #137  
Old 05-04-2012, 06:49 PM
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This week's update to the 3rd May:

The Queen has had a busy week with for instance gaining four engagements from the following entry in the CC:

Having been received upon arrival by the Colonel of the Regiment (Lieutenant General James Bucknall), Her Majesty and His Royal Highness were received on Parade with a Royal Salute. The Queen then inspected the Parade. After the presentation of new Colours, Her Majesty was graciously pleased to address the Regiment and the Regimental Lieutenant Colonel (Brigadier Greville Bibby) replied.

Now someone else might count all of that as one engagement but she did four things so I count that as four engagements. Philip gets credit, by me, for one as he only received the Royal Salute with The Queen - someone else mightn't even count that for Philip.

I thought people might like to see how I determine my count with things like this, particularly when a spouse accompanies the primary royal.


HM The Queen - 177 (143 - up 34)
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh - 120 (95 - up 25)
HRH The Prince of Wales - 218 (197 – up 19)
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 103 (93 – up 10)
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 6 (6 - up 1)
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 31 (30 - up 1)
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 39 (39 – no change)
HRH The Duke of York - 169 (148 - up 21)
HRH Princess Beatrice of York - 7 (7 - no change)
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 3 (3- no change)
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 147 (139 - up 8)
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 138 (137 – up 1)
HRH The Princess Royal - 194 (190 – up 4)
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 115 (108 – up 7)
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 34 (33 – up 1)
HRH The Duke of Kent - 55 (52 – up 3)
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 0 (0 no change)
HRH Prince Michael of Kent – 2 (2 – no change)
HRH Princess Michael of Kent – 2 (2 – no change)
HRH Princess Alexandra - 20 (14 – up 6)


Order from most downwards - the 'league table' if you like. I refuse to calculate how people are moving up or down that list.

HRH The Prince of Wales - 218
HRH The Princess Royal - 194
HM The Queen – 177
HRH The Duke of York - 169
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 147
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 138
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh – 120
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 115
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 103
HRH The Duke of Kent - 55
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 39
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 34
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 31
HRH Princess Alexandra - 20
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 7
HRH Princess Beatrice of York – 7
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 3
HRH Prince Michael of Kent – 2
HRH Princess Michael of Kent - 2
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 0

Year to date total - 1581 with 80% of those engagements being carried out by The Queen, her children and their spouses. The remaining 20% have been done by her grandchildren, first cousins and their spouses. This is a change from last week with The Queen and her children and spouses now at 80% up from 79%.
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  #138  
Old 05-04-2012, 07:48 PM
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Thanks a lot for the weekly update and especially the additional details, Iluvbertie. As usual, it is really appreciated!
The more I see the numbers, the more I pity Prince Andrew; it is quite apparent that he does work hard on behalf of the Queen, yet the press will never be interested in his activities unless they smell a controversy or a scandal. The poor man is really in a no win situation.
I wonder whether Prince Harry will find himself in similar position in future.
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  #139  
Old 05-04-2012, 08:56 PM
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I suspect so. Princess Margaret was treated this way in the 60s, 70s and 80s and ignored in the 90s. Now it is Andrew's turn and Harry will get the same treatment in the future - and he already has scandals that the press have enjoyed reporting e.g. the Nazi outfit and the racist comments so this will continue.
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  #140  
Old 05-11-2012, 05:41 PM
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This week's update to the 10th May:

Not such a busy week for The Queen and Philip or Anne this week. Andrew did a lot because he was doing his tour of India and Charles and Camilla have their annual official trip to Scotland. They do do other things in Scotland during the year of course but this is their official week there. The Duke of Gloucester has also been quietly going about his business in support of his cousin, The Queen.


HM The Queen - 181 (177 - up 4)
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh - 122 (120 - up 2)
HRH The Prince of Wales - 234 (218 – up 16)
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 116 (103 – up 13)
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 8 (7 - up 1)
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 32 (31 - up 1)
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 41 (39 – up 2)
HRH The Duke of York - 190 (169 - up 21)
HRH Princess Beatrice of York - 7 (7 - no change)
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 3 (3- no change)
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 154 (147 - up 7)
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 144 (138 – up 6)
HRH The Princess Royal - 199 (194 – up 5)
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 123 (115 – up 8)
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 41 (34 – up 7)
HRH The Duke of Kent - 56 (55 – up 1)
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 0 (0 no change)
HRH Prince Michael of Kent – 2 (2 – no change)
HRH Princess Michael of Kent – 2 (2 – no change)
HRH Princess Alexandra - 22 (20 – up 2)


Order from most downwards - the 'league table' if you like. I refuse to calculate how people are moving up or down that list. I do move people around who have moved up or down but I am not putting in how many places they are moving - although usually it is only one place in either direction.

HRH The Prince of Wales - 234
HRH The Princess Royal - 199
HRH The Duke of York - 190
HM The Queen – 181
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 151
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 144
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 123
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh – 122
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 116
HRH The Duke of Kent - 56
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 41
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 41
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 32
HRH Princess Alexandra - 22
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 8
HRH Princess Beatrice of York – 7
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 3
HRH Prince Michael of Kent – 2
HRH Princess Michael of Kent - 2
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 0

Year to date total - 1677 with 80% of those engagements being carried out by The Queen, her children and their spouses. The remaining 20% have been done by her grandchildren, first cousins and their spouses. This is a change from last week with The Queen and her children and spouses remain at 80% of the engagements.
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