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  #661  
Old 12-27-2013, 08:56 PM
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The difference between my figures and the figures in this study are that they include events where someone represented the Queen as a day on which she undertook an engagement. My analysis shows

127 days she is listed in the CC as actually doing something in person
32 days on which a courtier and not a royal is listed as doing something on her behalf such as attending a church service or meeting/farewelling an Ambassador or High Commissioner
12 days are where she is listed as 'arriving' somewhere and that is all or Divine Service was held with no mention of who actually attended
7 days on which another member of the royal family did something on her behalf such as Edward and Sophie attending Madelaine's wedding - that is listed in the CC under The Queen and not under Edward and Sophie personally
3 occasions when The Duke represented her

Total - 181 whereas I only counted the days when she did things personally equally 127.

I haven't done Charles' but that would be interesting to do that count as there are times when he is listed under The Queen doing things such as 'represented The Queen' at Mandela's funeral and also undertook Investitures on her behalf. If that is the only thing listed for the day then the Danish study appears to count that event for The Queen so if I get time I may try to see if they also count if for Charles.

It should also be remember that not all royal houses give our the same information and so while the BRF lists things like meetings with charities while the Scandinavians don't give out that information all the time.

A note as well - counting days on which royals worked Anne leads the field but Charles in number of engagements.
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  #662  
Old 12-27-2013, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
TBH I'm a bit skeptical of this survey as only three European monarchies were considered.
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  #663  
Old 12-27-2013, 09:04 PM
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I didnt know where else to post it but I wasnt querying your figures. On the basis that the Danish publication used the same method, I am v surprised and a bit disappointed by some of the other royal family figures.
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  #664  
Old 12-27-2013, 09:17 PM
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Cepe

I wasn't assuming you were doubting my figures.

I wanted to explain to everyone why there was a difference and in fact when I saw them wanted to work out why I was so different so did the analysis of The Queen and realised that they were simply counting every day on which the CC records something under The Queen rather than actually reading what the CC said happened on that day.

I do think though we have to remember that the other royal families count things differently.

At one time I was having a discussion with a Dane and was told that the Danes count as one engagement a full day of things in one town whereas the British way is to count every different event as a different engagement e.g. Charles and Camilla visit xxxxx - Charles visits the Castle, inspects the guard, meets the people who run the place for English Heritage while Camilla goes to the school and meets the children before going to the WI and meeting the ladies there before they meet up at the town hall for lunch and then Charles talks to the mayor while Camilla goes to the gardens. The Danes count all of that as 1 engagement for both Charles and Camilla while the Brits count it as 3 for Charles and 4 for Camilla (Charles - castle, lunch, mayor; Camilla - school, WI, lunch and garden).

That is why I take this survey with a grain of salt - interesting but inaccurate. If they had exactly the same level of information from each royal house then they could be making an accurate comparison but as the royal houses give out different information e.g. the BRF includes meetings behind closed doors while other houses don't so Charles has three meetings on three days equals 3 days work but Fred has 3 meetings on the same three days equal 0 work as they aren't recorded in the same way.
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  #665  
Old 12-27-2013, 09:27 PM
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These aren't engagements they are the no of days so William spent 46 days and Frederick spent 90. William spent 2/3 of the year as an SAR pilot.

I think that it puts the BRF in a good light.
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  #666  
Old 12-27-2013, 09:32 PM
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Even though it is number of days it is still comparing apples and oranges as there are a number of things which are reported by the Scandinavian royal houses that the British do e.g. the example I gave above of meetings.

Charles has many days when he isn't seen but is recorded as doing meetings.

Fred though doesn't have those days recorded but as he is the same position as Charles it is reasonable to assume that he also does meetings that aren't recorded and so works on more days than is recorded here.

Regardless of whether is it days on which they carry out engagements or the actual engagements unless we have the same information from the royal houses with which to work any comparison is unfair.
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  #667  
Old 12-28-2013, 03:32 PM
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Annual Engagements by members of the Royal Family 2011-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Even though it is number of days it is still comparing apples and oranges as there are a number of things which are reported by the Scandinavian royal houses that the British do e.g. the example I gave above of meetings.

Charles has many days when he isn't seen but is recorded as doing meetings.

Fred though doesn't have those days recorded but as he is the same position as Charles it is reasonable to assume that he also does meetings that aren't recorded and so works on more days than is recorded here.

Regardless of whether is it days on which they carry out engagements or the actual engagements unless we have the same information from the royal houses with which to work any comparison is unfair.

It would seem the Scandinavian royals on the whole use their public diaries to let people know about events open to the public or at the least the media, in contract the British Royal family have the much older, formal court circular which lists all the happenings at court whether public or those behind closed doors. To make a fairer comparison you would have to take off the events attended by people on the Queen and Charles' behalf and also the private meetings they have with people, that would make the figures better to compare but would make it a lot more complicated. Maybe the Scandinavian Royal courts will begin listing more closed door meetings in the future.
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  #668  
Old 12-28-2013, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
TBH I'm a bit skeptical of this survey as only three European monarchies were considered.
seeing as this "survey" was done by "Danish tabloid Ekstrabladet", my feeling is that this was not done to have a fair overview of workload of all european royals, but rather as a way of showing how "little" the home-royals (i.o.w. the danish) are doing...

They have just taken the danish royal members and compared those with some counterparts in RF's known to the danish public...
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  #669  
Old 12-31-2013, 08:43 AM
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Queen reduced duties by a fifth in 2013 | Mail Online

The 87-year-old monarch conducted 341 official engagements in 2013
This is down 85 from 425 in 2012, the year of her Diamond Jubilee
Other royals, such as Prince Charles and Princess Anne, have taken on extra


The Queen significantly reduced the number of engagements she carried out last year, handing over more duties to younger royals.
The 87-year-old monarch conducted 341 official visits, ceremonies, audiences and investitures over the last 12 months, compared to 425 in 2012 - a drop of about 20 per cent.
Although the Diamond Jubilee in 2012 kept her busier than usual, her 2013 diary was noticeably slimmer than the 370 engagements she undertook in 2011 and the 444 in 2010. The last time she fulfilled foreign duties was in 2011


I don' think it would come as a surprise to anyone that she carried out less engagements then in her Jubilee year.
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  #670  
Old 12-31-2013, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
seeing as this "survey" was done by "Danish tabloid Ekstrabladet", my feeling is that this was not done to have a fair overview of workload of all european royals, but rather as a way of showing how "little" the home-royals (i.o.w. the danish) are doing...

They have just taken the danish royal members and compared those with some counterparts in RF's known to the danish public...
Thank you Lee-Z.
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  #671  
Old 12-31-2013, 09:03 PM
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The annual figures compiled by Tim O'Donovan have been released.



The Royal Family
This is the letter and the graphic (hopefully)



The Royal blog site "Royal Central" have compiled the last 4 years of Mr O'Donovan's figures which you can see here

Queen’s workload continues to drop as royal engagement figures are released | Royal Central
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  #672  
Old 12-31-2013, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
The annual figures compiled by Tim O'Donovan have been released.



The Royal Family
This is the letter and the graphic (hopefully)



The Royal blog site "Royal Central" have compiled the last 4 years of Mr O'Donovan's figures which you can see here

Queen’s workload continues to drop as royal engagement figures are released | Royal Central
To Ilovebertie-
Why are the numbers from POW and others so far off Mr Donovan vs Bertie, vs DM vs other forums.
Specifically he has POW at about 444 but our forum and the mail POW over 500
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  #673  
Old 12-31-2013, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sthreats View Post
To Ilovebertie-
Why are the numbers from POW and others so far off Mr Donovan vs Bertie, vs DM vs other forums.
Specifically he has POW at about 444 but our forum and the mail POW over 500
I've put these here because they are the only published figures in the Uk but they are NOT official.

The one's that the DM published are in fact Danish and no one really understands how they calculated them.

EDIT: You must add the last 2 columns together, ie UK engagements plus those overseas.


Over to Iluvbertie.....
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  #674  
Old 12-31-2013, 10:56 PM
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Just my own personal perspective but I lean towards the figures that Iluvbertie lists here. They're done every week and by the CC so we all literally get to see the numbers grow as the year progresses.

Thank you so much for doing this for us! Three cheers and hats off to Iluvbertie!
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  #675  
Old 12-31-2013, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Just my own personal perspective but I lean towards the figures that Iluvbertie lists here. They're done every week and by the CC so we all literally get to see the numbers grow as the year progresses.

Thank you so much for doing this for us! Three cheers and hats off to Iluvbertie!
That is exactly how this guy does it - he uses the CC. He has done this for over 20 years. Just for info. His figures for Charles (for example) are 537 - that's Uk plus overseas.
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  #676  
Old 01-01-2014, 01:31 AM
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Weekly update to 31st December and final for 2013

This is the final entry for 2013 and at the end I will analyse the difference between my figures and Mr O'Donovan's. I believe that this comes about simply because there are times when I count something as two when he counts it as one. My simple rule is - if they move venue it is two, or if a couple attend on the senior royal does something the other doesn't then they counts extra for the royal who does something e.g. The Queen and Phillip visit xxxx, tour xxxx, have luncheon at xxxx and The Queen opens the new wing. I count that as two to The Queen and one to Philip as The Queen has done something extra but if it reads 'The Queen accompanied by The Duke of Edinburgh then opened the new wing' it is only 1 for both.
It should also be noted that I keep a count for Beatrice, Eugenie, Tim, Katherine, Michael and Marie-Christine which adds figures to my final total.

HM The Queen - 394 (394 - no change)
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh - 203 (203 - no change)
HRH The Prince of Wales - 590 (589 - up 1)
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 263 (263 - no change)
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 66 (66 - no change)
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 44 (44 - no change)
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 57 (57 - no change)
HRH The Duke of York - 366 (366 - no change)
HRH Princess Beatrice of York - 9 (9 - no change)
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 5 (5 - no change)
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 338 (338 - no change)
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 234 (233 - no change)
HRH The Princess Royal - 477 (477 - no change)
Vice-Admiral Tim Laurence - 32 (32 - no change)
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 222 (222 - no change)
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 140 (140 - no change)
HRH The Duke of Kent - 206 (206 - no change)
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 2 (2 - no change)
HRH Prince Michael of Kent – 7 (7 - no change)
HRH Princess Michael of Kent - 6 (6 - no change)
HRH Princess Alexandra - 26 (26 - no change)

Order from most downwards - the 'league table' if you like. I refuse to calculate how people are moving up or down that list. I do move people around who have moved up or down but I am not putting in how many places they are moving - although usually it is only one place in either direction.

HRH The Prince of Wales - 590
HRH The Princess Royal - 477
HM The Queen – 394
HRH The Duke of York - 366
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 338
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 263
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 234
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 222
HRH The Duke of Kent - 206
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh – 203
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 140
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 66
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 57
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 44
Vice-Admiral Tim Laurence - 32
HRH Princess Alexandra - 26
HRH Princess Beatrice of York – 9
HRH Prince Michael of Kent – 7
HRH Princess Michael of Kent - 6
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 5
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 2

Year to date total - 3687 (3687 - no change)

78.5% of those engagements being carried out by The Queen, her children and their spouses.
The main line (The Queen, Duke of Edinburgh, Prince of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duke of Cambridge, Duchess of Cambridge, Prince Harry) has done 43.9%.
16.2% of all engagements are being done by those over 85.
22.5% done by those 70 and above
68.8% are being done by those over 60.
46.6% were done by those in their 60s.
10.7% have been done by The Queen.
16% were done by Charles.
7.1% were done by Camilla

Days on which official engagements were undertaken to 31st December

HM The Queen - 127
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh - 98
HRH The Prince of Wales - 170
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 108
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 44
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 34
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 31
HRH The Duke of York - 129
HRH Princess Beatrice of York - 9
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 5
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 137
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 109
HRH The Princess Royal - 179
Vice-Admiral Tim Laurence - 25
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 128
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 96
HRH The Duke of Kent - 108
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 2
HRH Prince Michael of Kent - 7
HRH Princess Michael of Kent - 6
HRH Princess Alexandra - 20

Comparison with Mr O'Donovan's figures - my figures first, his in brackets and the difference in bold.

HM The Queen - 394 (344 - +50)
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh - 203 (181 - +18)
HRH The Prince of Wales - 590 (537 - +53)
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 263 (246 +17)
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 66 (62 - +4)
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 44 (44 - same)
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 57 (52 - +5)
HRH The Duke of York - 366 (330 - +36)
HRH Princess Beatrice of York - 9 (0 - +9)
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 5 (0 - +5)
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 338 (345 - -7)
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 234 (228 - +6)
HRH The Princess Royal - 477 (454 - +23)
Vice-Admiral Tim Laurence - 32 (0 - +32)
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 222 (222 - same)
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 140 (132 - +8)
HRH The Duke of Kent - 206 (198 - +8)
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 2 (0 - +2)
HRH Prince Michael of Kent – 7 (0 - +7)
HRH Princess Michael of Kent - 6 (0 - +6)
HRH Princess Alexandra - 26 (28 - -2)

Total - 3687 (3406 - + 281 of which 61 where done by the royals Mr O'Donovan doesn't count meaning the difference was 220.
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  #677  
Old 01-01-2014, 01:39 AM
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Royal Palaces etc where engagements have been done in 2013.


Buckingham Palace - by The Queen - 187
Buckingham Palace - by the rest of the family - 229
Total for BP - 416

Windsor Castle, Holyrood House, St James and Kensington Palace are used by multiple members of the family from The Queen on downwards while Clarence House is only The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall.

Kensington Palace - 31
St James' Palace - 70
Clarence House - 156
Windsor Castle - 32
Sandringham House - 11
Holyrood House - 21
Balmoral - 4
Marlborough House - 3

Please note that this is only the place for an engagement regardless of how many members of the family attended that event it still only counted for 1 so a reception that was attended by 10 members of the family counts 1 on the above list and if at BP and The Queen was present counts under her count for BP but if she wasn't present then it is under the 'others'.
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  #678  
Old 01-01-2014, 10:39 AM
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Thank you for this New Year's treat Iluvbertie!
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  #679  
Old 01-01-2014, 10:55 AM
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Thanks Iluvbertie. Lot of work to do this.
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  #680  
Old 01-01-2014, 10:46 PM
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Royal family carries out 1,000 fewer engagements in 2013 as illness and pregnancy take their toll-
Royal family carries out 1,000 fewer engagements in 2013 as illness and pregnancy take their toll - Telegraph
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