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  #181  
Old 06-23-2012, 05:50 PM
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At least the York girls get some coverage of their unofficial engagements. The Gloucesters and Kents don't even get coverage of the official engagements they do for the monarchy.

I don't know how to do the unofficial ones when there is no official record kept which is why I only use the CC and sometimes mention why people like Beatrice and Eugenie aren't getting credit for things reported in the press to also highlight that other royals may very well be doing unofficial duties as well that aren't getting any coverage.
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  #182  
Old 06-23-2012, 06:08 PM
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I agree re Gloucesters and Kents. And, they're beyond the normal retirement age for most of us and still doing their duty when they'd probably rather be putting their feet up or playing with their grandkids.
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  #183  
Old 06-29-2012, 07:55 PM
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Weekly update to 28th June.

This week I have had a small problem as the CC for 25th June - the day of the Henley trip hasn't been put up - it was all scrambled earlier in the week and later in the week kept coming up as 'no results' but I have credited The Queen and Philip with one each for that day for the Henley trip and given one to The Duke of Kent for attending the first day of Wimbledon. I didn't credit anyone else on the first day of Wimbledon even though others attended. If the 25th is ever fixed I will update the list accordingly.

Another interesting event was the Unveiling of Bomber Command Memorial where Princess Alexandra wasn't listed as attending the unveiling but was listed as attending the luncheon afterwards. I can only go by the CC so I can only assume that she didn't attend the unveiling officially.

HM The Queen - 319 (300 - up 19)
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh - 215 (195 - up 20)
HRH The Prince of Wales - 357 (343 – up 14)
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 180 (174 – up 6)
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 31 (31 - no change)
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 53 (53 - no change)
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 53 (53 – no change)
HRH The Duke of York - 273 (259 - up 14)
HRH Princess Beatrice of York - 17 (17 - no change)
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 13 (13 - no change)
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 255 (242 - up 13)
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 230 (221 – up 11)
HRH The Princess Royal - 282 (274 – up 8)
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 190 (176 – up 14)
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 70 (65 – up 5)
HRH The Duke of Kent - 103 (96 – up 7)
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 6 (6 - no change)
HRH Prince Michael of Kent – 17 (13 – up 4)
HRH Princess Michael of Kent - 17 (13 – up 4)
HRH Princess Alexandra - 62 (58 – up 4)


Order from most downwards - the 'league table' if you like. I refuse to calculate how people are moving up or down that list. I do move people around who have moved up or down but I am not putting in how many places they are moving - although usually it is only one place in either direction.

HRH The Prince of Wales - 357
HM The Queen – 319
HRH The Princess Royal - 282
HRH The Duke of York - 273
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 255
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 230
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh – 215
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 190
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 180
HRH The Duke of Kent - 103
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 70
HRH Princess Alexandra - 62
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 53
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 53
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 31
HRH Princess Beatrice of York – 17
HRH Prince Michael of Kent – 17
HRH Princess Michael of Kent -17
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 13
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 6

Year to date total - 2742 with 77% of those engagements being carried out by The Queen, her children and their spouses. The remaining 23% have been done by her grandchildren, first cousins and their spouses. This sees a change from last week with the Queen, her children and their spouses reducing their percentage of engagements again in comparison to the grandchildren, cousins and their spouses. This is the same as last week.

The main line (The Queen, Duke of Edinburgh, Prince of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duke of Cambridge, Duchess of Cambridge, Prince Harry) has remained at 44%.
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  #184  
Old 07-06-2012, 07:56 PM
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Weekly update to 5th July.

This week we have all seen William and Kate at Wimbledon but it wasn't in the CC so no credit but the Duke of Kent gets the credit a number of times because of the number of days he attended and it was in the CC.

The Thistle ceremony had two components - the service and then a luncheon at which the knights entertained The Queen and Philip - so William gets a credit as a Knight but Kate doesn't as the CC didn't indicate that the spouses of the Knights were there.

HM The Queen - 342 (319 - up 23)
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh - 233 (215 - up 18)
HRH The Prince of Wales - 377 (357 – up 20)
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 192 (180 – up 12)
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 33 (31 - up 2)
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 54 (53 - up 1)
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 53 (53 – no change)
HRH The Duke of York - 281 (273 - up 8)
HRH Princess Beatrice of York - 17 (17 - no change)
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 13 (13 - no change)
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 273 (255 - up 18)
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 242 (230 – up 12)
HRH The Princess Royal - 297 (282 – up 15)
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 204 (90 – up 14)
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 75 (70 – up 5)
HRH The Duke of Kent - 108 (103 – up 5)
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 6 (6 - no change)
HRH Prince Michael of Kent – 17 (17 – no change)
HRH Princess Michael of Kent - 17 (17 – no change)
HRH Princess Alexandra - 65 (62 – up 3)


Order from most downwards - the 'league table' if you like. I refuse to calculate how people are moving up or down that list. I do move people around who have moved up or down but I am not putting in how many places they are moving - although usually it is only one place in either direction.

HRH The Prince of Wales - 377
HM The Queen – 342
HRH The Princess Royal - 297
HRH The Duke of York - 281
HRH The Earl of Wessex - 273
HRH The Countess of Wessex - 242
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh – 233
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - 204
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - 192
HRH The Duke of Kent - 108
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - 75
HRH Princess Alexandra - 65
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge - 54
HRH Prince Henry of Wales - 53
HRH The Duke of Cambridge - 33
HRH Princess Beatrice of York – 17
HRH Prince Michael of Kent – 17
HRH Princess Michael of Kent -17
HRH Princess Eugenie of York - 13
HRH The Duchess of Kent - 6

Year to date total - 2899 with 77% of those engagements being carried out by The Queen, her children and their spouses. The remaining 23% have been done by her grandchildren, first cousins and their spouses. This sees a change from last week with the Queen, her children and their spouses reducing their percentage of engagements again in comparison to the grandchildren, cousins and their spouses. This is the same as last week.

The main line (The Queen, Duke of Edinburgh, Prince of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duke of Cambridge, Duchess of Cambridge, Prince Harry) has remained at 44%.

Just a query - if I continue this next year - would people like to see how often a spouse is credited with a 'duty' when simply accompanying the royal e.g. Philip accompanies The Queen and they both get a credit at the moment - and that would continue of course - but often the spouse accompanies e.g. Kate going to The Thistle to look pretty counts as a duty. What I am suggesting is three sets of figures - the top one I do know, the league table and one just for individual duties done by the spouses.
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  #185  
Old 07-06-2012, 10:00 PM
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[QUOTE="Iluvbertie"

Just a query - if I continue this next year - would people like to see how often a spouse is credited with a 'duty' when simply accompanying the royal e.g. Philip accompanies The Queen and they both get a credit at the moment - and that would continue of course - but often the spouse accompanies e.g. Kate going to The Thistle to look pretty counts as a duty. What I am suggesting is three sets of figures - the top one I do know, the league table and one just for individual duties done by the spouses.[/QUOTE]

Not sure if this is possible because it would probably make a lot more work for you but I see there being two different types of engagement when a spouse accompanies their husband/wife. There's the type that the D of E usually fulfills when he accompanies the Queen but he also participates - meets people. Then there's the type such as trooping the colour or the garter ceremony when the spouse simply observes.

The first type I think should be counted but the second type I think should not.

Thanks for keeping on doing this. I look forward to your post at the end of each week.
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  #186  
Old 07-07-2012, 03:47 AM
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It really would only be adding some extra columns to the spreadsheet to indicate Accompanied/Participated besides the spouse and then only count the participated ones in one column and them both in another. It would probably add about an hour a week to what I am doing now on average.
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  #187  
Old 07-07-2012, 02:04 PM
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Do you include in your stats here the engagements of Prince Michael listed on his official website? As you know, the Prince is not a working royal and his engagements are not listed in the CC, unless he officially represents the Queen or attends a major royal event as one of the royal group. Even then, he is just mentioned in the CC and has not his own CC "category".
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  #188  
Old 07-07-2012, 07:20 PM
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Yes I do include Prince and Princess Michael when they are listed in the CC - currently both have appeared at 17 official functions this year.

Beatrice and Eugenie also don't have their own sections in the CC but again both are included with Beatrice also at 17 and Eugenie at 13 engagements this year. The difference is that Beatrice did have a day of engagements with The Queen and Philip which took her count up.

A lot of what Prince and Princess Michael do isn't listed in the CC so doesn't get counted.

The only spouse I don't include is Tim Laurence and I really do think that next year I will as he does accompany Anne a lot but never does anything on his own. The other reason I don't include him is that he isn't an HRH while Prince and Princess Michael are.

Last week the Michael's didn't do anything officially but the week before they each were involved in 4 engagements.
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  #189  
Old 07-07-2012, 08:09 PM
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I think that if the individual is named in the court circular then they should be included. My reason is that (for example) Prince William might make a speech but Catherine also talks to attendees and does a walk about. We might not know this because that sort of detail isn't always given. But the CC would say "The Duke and Duchess". At the Thistle ceremony Catherine wasn't there to look pretty - she attended the ceremony, reception and would have spoken with other attendees and possibly the public. We only see what the media show us so we don't know the detail when spouses attend. TO be consistant, the CC is the only source (IMO).

I'd also like to add that what you do on this Iluvbertie, is amazing - thank you very much.
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  #190  
Old 07-07-2012, 09:27 PM
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Catherine wasn't mentioned as attending the reception which is why I didn't give her a credit for that.

The wording for the reception was that it was the Knights of the Thistle and the Lady Knight hosted a reception for The Queen and Prince Philip - no mention of anyone else - no other partners of Knights mentioned as attending.

My idea is to give people an idea of how often the spouse simply accompanies their partner rather than actually does something e.g. The Earl and Countess of Wessex are often listed as jointly opening things where in most other cases it is The Queen accompanied by The Duke of Edinburgh opened xxxx.

So

The Earl and Countess of Wessex opened xxx

While

The Queen accompanied by The Duke of Edinburgh opened xxxx

says that in the first case they both stood their and jointly pulled the ribbon while in the second the Queen pulled the ribbon and Philip looked on.

The plaques are also instructive - the first one will have both names on it while the second one only have The Queen's.

That is why I am proposing to do another count - to show how often the partner is there to look pretty or make up the numbers rather than to do the actual work of the royal.
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  #191  
Old 07-08-2012, 08:00 AM
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Iluvbertie, but I asked about Prince Michael's engagements mentioned not in the CC but in the "Diary" section of his official personal website (The Official Website of His Royal Highness Prince Michael of Kent). Prince Michael lives on his own and is not considered a working royal but still carries out a significant number of public engagements on behalf of his patronages and charities. The only chance he could be counted in the CC is when he represents the Queen, which is rare, or supports her on official occassions such as state banquets, garden parties and commemorative ceremonies, and when he attends official weddings and funerals. When Prince an Princess Michael join the RF on a major public engagement they are naturally mentioned because they are HRHs but it's only by courtesy IMO. Last time I remember Prince Michael was counted as representing the Queen was at the funeral of the late Earl of Harewood last year. All other CC notes about him are like "..., Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, ..., also attended." That's all.
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  #192  
Old 07-08-2012, 06:23 PM
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The only engagements that are counted are the ones in the CC because they are the only ones that are official royal duties.

Any other work he does he is doing as a private individual not as an official royal and hence they don't count as royal work.

Most royals do additional activities that are not mentioned in the CC but to chase down all of those would take way too much time and they aren't official duties anyway e.g. we all know Kate went to Wimbledon - not an official visit - but other royals also do things like this.
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  #193  
Old 07-08-2012, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Most royals do additional activities that are not mentioned in the CC but to chase down all of those would take way too much time and they aren't official duties anyway e.g. we all know Kate went to Wimbledon - not an official visit - but other royals also do things like this.
You're right and I am not asking you to count Prince Michael's appearance at Wimbledon in your statistics. What I meant was his duties on behalf of his patronages and charities, which he carries out. For example, I quote: HRH Prince Michael of Kent, Patron of The Institute of the Motor Industry attended the IMI Awards (from June 19th); HRH Prince Michael of Kent, Honorary Rear Admiral of The Royal Naval Reserve, visited HMS Eaglet and RMR Mersey and presented medals (March 14th).
Yes, he does that on his own but what's the true difference between that and most of his siblings' engagements? When Princess Alexandra attends an official event of one of the instiutions she is associated with, it is worth to count and when Prince Michael does that it isn't?
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  #194  
Old 07-08-2012, 07:54 PM
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The difference would be that his brother and sister are official working members of the BRF, and in line the line of succession. Michael only rarely carries out official engagements on behalf of the monarch (usually just in attendance at major state occassions like the Trooping or a guest at a state dinner) and is not in the line of succession. What Michael and Marie Christine do is their own private decision.
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  #195  
Old 07-10-2012, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
It really would only be adding some extra columns to the spreadsheet to indicate Accompanied/Participated besides the spouse and then only count the participated ones in one column and them both in another. It would probably add about an hour a week to what I am doing now on average.
I actually think it would be very useful if you used the CC as a guide, and tweaked as appropriate. At the end of the day, to me your list is very useful in working out who has been out and about. fully accept that this only takes care of the quantatative aspect, and certainly not the qaulatative, and also does not reflect all the "internal" meetings that must take place.
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  #196  
Old 07-10-2012, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
That is why I am proposing to do another count - to show how often the partner is there to look pretty or make up the numbers rather than to do the actual work of the royal.
I say yes - if you're willing to do the work. It would give a more accurate picture.

P.S. I'm thrilled that you have decided to take this past this year! Many thanks. It will be interesting to do compare/contrast.
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  #197  
Old 07-10-2012, 11:33 AM
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I really appreciate the fact that you do this but I'm still struggling to understand how you are going to work out whether a "partner" of a lead royal took an active part in the event. Here is a quote from yesterday's CC
"Their Royal Highnesses (PoW and DoCornwall) this afternoon opened the new Bodnant Welsh Food Centre"

Did the Prince of Wales say a few words, unveil something (I'd say probably). Did Camilla speak with the event organisers? Did she unveil something? - we dont know.

Prince Philip attends a lot of events with the Queen but she takes the lead so making this distinction would probably reduce his work by over 50%.

Just trying to understand the purpose of this - sorry
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  #198  
Old 07-10-2012, 06:01 PM
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In the example you gave they both actually opened it so they both get the credit but when you get something like 'The Prince of Wales, accompanied by The Duchess of Cornwall, opened xxxx' then Charles did the opening and Camilla stood/sat while he did it. In that case she wouldn't get a credit.

I am just trying to indicate how often the spouse is there simply for support rather than actually doing something. A lot of the time spouses do just support their royal while there are times that the spouse does things on their own - or even takes the lead.

It is simply another piece of information to add to the understanding of the way the royals do duties.
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  #199  
Old 07-10-2012, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
In the example you gave they both actually opened it so they both get the credit but when you get something like 'The Prince of Wales, accompanied by The Duchess of Cornwall, opened xxxx' then Charles did the opening and Camilla stood/sat while he did it. In that case she wouldn't get a credit.

I am just trying to indicate how often the spouse is there simply for support rather than actually doing something. A lot of the time spouses do just support their royal while there are times that the spouse does things on their own - or even takes the lead.

It is simply another piece of information to add to the understanding of the way the royals do duties.
ok - we will have to agree to disagree . I think she would contribute because she would talk to people, shake hands and generally be part of the day. The event as described in the CC describes the purpose of the day - not everything that happens. But I think that its amazing you do this .
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  #200  
Old 07-11-2012, 01:11 AM
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There will still be a list in which her presence is counted but this is more to give people an idea of simply when they are there in support rather than being the primary royal. The engagement would happen whether spouse was there and I think it would be a good idea to see how many actual engagements are carried out as opposed to simply crediting two people with attending the one engagements - or in the case of the flotilla - 20 engagements count in the total for what was really one engagement. There would still be that total but also the new total.
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