"The White Queen" (2013) - BBC Historical Drama Series on Elizabeth Woodville

[ANNIE_S]

I would love if they continue with Princess Elizabeth of York´s story.

 

[Baroness of Books]

Only 2 more episodes left,hard to believe as so much has happened (and didn't happen),overall its been disappointing. I've never read any of the Philippa Gregory novels and this series will not spur me to run out and buy them.

Don't be discouraged by the TV series; if you can borrow the books from your library, I'd really advise reading them. They're great historical fiction and you really get into in-depth portrayals of the characters, albeit with the author's spin on them. I've read all of them, including "The White Princess," and have really enjoyed the series. I haven't seen the TV series and from what I've read of the comments about it, I doubt I'm missing much. I've learned that books never translate well into movies. They gloss over too much, don't go into any depth and always add sexual overtones to attract the audience, although there was a very passionate relationship between Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville. If you liked Jacquetta's character, then you should definitely read "Lady of the Rivers," but all these books are very good and I highly recommend them.

I was really hoping that Philippa Gregory would have added to her series by writing about Cecily Neville, Edward IV's and Richard III's mother. She's such a major character in the War of the Roses and I'd love to see a novel devoted to her.

 

[Alison H]

I would love if they continue with Princess Elizabeth of York´s story.

The White Princess, Philippa Gregory's latest book, is about Elizabeth of York and is now out in hardback.

I'd like to see her take on Margaret of Anjou, who IMO gets a very bad press from male historians.

I accept that they aren't historically accurate, but novels don't have to be and, to be fair, she does make it clear in the forewords/afterwords to the Wars of the Roses books that some things are invented/just her take on things, which she didn't do with the Tudor books. Also, the fascinating thing about the Wars of the Roses is that we genuinely don't know the truth of some of the main events. I find it hard to believe that Perkin Warbeck really was Prince Richard, which is clearly the route Philippa Gregory's going, but it is possible that he was.

The best thing about the BBC series for me is that it's got attention focused on a very neglected period of English history. It's truly frightening how many people seem to think that the Wars of the Roses were fought between Lancashire and Yorkshire!

 

[Nice Nofret]

... wrong thread..

 

[Baroness of Books]

It's a relevant discussion stemming from a comment made about the books on which the TV series is based.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I'm just not a fan of historical fiction,I'm less fond when they make them into a TV series

 

[PrincessKaimi]

No piece of historical writing is every 100% accurate.

 

[Baroness of Books]

No, there's really no definite accuracy, not when an author interprets from his/her POV. Good authors like Gregory, Margaret George, Alison Weir and Sharon Kay Penman do rely on factual bibliographies to flesh out their characters and attempt to re-create historical figures based on such facts.

When it comes to made-for-TV series based on novels, well, there's a whole different perspective on making a period piece interesting to the general viewing public.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Well I wonder if we'll see any more of the novels made into steamy summer mini series over the next few years?

 

[Baroness of Books]

Maybe if they dig up another royal skeleton!

 

[Ish]

No, not when an author interprets from his/her POV. Good authors like Gregory, Margaret George, Alison Weir and Sharon Kay Penman do rely on factual bibliographies to flesh out their characters and attempt to re-create historical figures based on such facts.

When it comes to made-for-TV series based on novels, well, there's a whole different perspective on making a period piece interesting to the general viewing public.

No piece of history is 100% accurate, be it fiction or non-fiction. Historians tell a story based on facts they gather from other sources (both primary and secondary), but there are always gaps and decisions made - what to include, what to exclude - and biases present that prevent the end product from being 100% accurate.

Within historical fiction, there is even more of a bias as the author is taking historical fact and reworking it to fit within a specific narrative.

Philippa Gregory herself has received criticism for her novels because they're not always historically accurate but she claims otherwise. Good historical fiction writers, in my opinion, are the ones who include a historical note at the end and go "this is real, but I made up or changed this, and if you want to learn more read these sources that I found really helpful."

 

[Baroness of Books]

That's why I like authors who always include an afterword and a list of their sources. They're always going to take some artistic license in their work, but when you know they've listed historical references their novels are based on, that's the type of novel I like to read. But when you deal with topics like Richard III and the murder of the young princes in the Tower, all interpretations are up for grabs and you can't base accuracy on what the author writes.

 

[Duchess Marie]

Only two more episodes left now and they have finally introduced Elizabeth of York. For anyone that wants to watch it you can see it on delishows.com I'm very behind with the whole thing but from what i can see they're going with the Richard/Elizabeth affair(which has never been proven) and Edward and Jacquetta have died.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Only two more episodes left now and they have finally introduced Elizabeth of York. For anyone that wants to watch it you can see it on delishows.com I'm very behind with the whole thing but from what i can see they're going with the Richard/Elizabeth affair(which has never been proven) and Edward and Jacquetta have died.

And she's a feisty character unlike her less famous sister Princess Cecily of York who's also had a few minor scenes.

 

[Warren]

... But when you deal with topics like Richard III and the murder of the young princes in the Tower...

Alternatively, "disappearance" or "unknown fate".
An author has more to play with if murder is assumed because they can then back-story that motivation into the main player(s). "unknown fate" is too open and would lead to wishy-washy characterisations and vague motivations.

 

[Mariel]

Were these people all Plantagenets? Richard III was a Plantagenet, I believe I read. The others? Henry IV, for instance? I read Richard III was the last Plantagenet so there would be no descendants after him.

 

[Baroness of Books]

Yes, Henry IV was the son of John of Gaunt, who was Edward III's son. They were all Plantagenets. John of Gaunt was also the Duke of Lancaster, from where the House of Lancaster got spun off along with the House of York from another Plantagenet prince from Edward's line. They then became competing factions for the throne afterwards, culminating in the War of the Roses.

 

[Warren]

The extended Plantagenet Dynasty by that time was sprawling, thus the need to identify the branches of York and Lancaster, to the extent that they could be mistaken for rival dynasties. Instead they were members belonging to the one great family and why at the time what we refer to as "the Wars of the Roses" was called "the Cousins' Wars".

The struggle for power was a ruthless game and as that power was largely absolute in the person of the King, any number of ambitious royal relatives would plot, scheme and take up arms against each other to claim the prize. No surprise then that by the time the Wars were largely settled by Henry Tudor's victory at Bosworth and its aftermath, the number of living Plantagenets, male and female, was greatly diminished.

 

[Osipi]

For those in the US that want to see this series, it is being shown on the STARZ network.

As I do not subscribe to STARZ in my satellite bundle, I was really disappointed that I would have to either subscribe or miss this series until I realized that the episodes are being shown again on STARZ Encore channel which I do get. I'm all set for the broadcast of "In Love With The King" today at 3:20 PM EST.

Here's a schedule of air times for those interested.

The White Queen - A STARZ Original Series - Schedule

 

[An Ard Ri]

The penultimate episode tonight!

BBC One - The White Queen, Episode 9

 

[An Ard Ri]

No follow up on the BBC

'The White Queen' ditched by BBC: It is axed too soon? - TV News - Digital Spy

 

[Duchess Marie]

I just have finished seeing all the episodes. In the end the acting of Faye Marsay was the one that impressed me the most, in that particular scene were she was in bed and told Richard that he didn't love her i almost had tears in my eyes. Faye did a amazing job as Anne Neville in her last days. The ending was rather dull though, i have to say that the last episodes was not that exciting besides the many historical inaccuracies. Something that also stuck me was the whole Princes in the Towers thing, that Richard supposedly escapes his fate and another boy that looks like him is put in the tower instead just seems ridiculous. I don't know what was going through Philippa's mind when she wrote that.

 

[ANNIE_S]

I agree. The last chapters have been quite disapointing for me.
More so knowing that there is no second season planned. I found the last chapter incomplete. It wasn´t the best ending at all.

Agree as well about Prince Richard´s affair...very odd.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I agree. The last chapters have been quite disapointing for me.
More so knowing that there is no second season planned. I found the last chapter incomplete. It wasn´t the best ending at all.

Agree as well about Prince Richard´s affair...very odd.

I agree Annie the ending was just bizzare,maybe at the time they had planned a possible series 2?

 

[ANNIE_S]

I agree Annie the ending was just bizzare,maybe at the time they had planned a possible series 2?

That was what I thought... maybe it was planned but the series hasn´t gone as well as they thought it would. I imagine they aren´t cheap to produce and they have to get enough benefits.

 

[An Ard Ri]

That was what I thought... maybe it was planned but the series hasn´t gone as well as they thought it would. I imagine they aren´t cheap to produce and they have to get enough benefits.

BBC might not want a series 2 but who knows maybe some other channel might just commission a second series?

I must check out the ratings on BBC 1 for the White Queen.

 

[Duchess Marie]

That was what I thought... maybe it was planned but the series hasn´t gone as well as they thought it would. I imagine they aren´t cheap to produce and they have to get enough benefits.

It was also badly received from what i read, i have to say that it was a bitter disappointed in the end. The last episodes bore me greatly to be honest, and all of the ridiculous plots such as Richard escaping and coming back was just a little strange. If it's one thing i adore Amanda Hale's acting, her as Margaret Beaufort made me have mixed feelings about the character. I did hope that there would be a season 2 maybe following Elizabeth of York and Henry VII, it would have been interesting to see how that played out.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

The actress playing Elizabeth Woodville is not pretty enough to be her. This was a woman said to be the most beautiful in England and even if it was sucking up to a Queen her portrait alone shows she was beautiful. I laughed when her mother said no man in England could ride pass her daughter.
Also there is something about Aneurin(sp) that resembles the real Richard III.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Just started watching it (I'm on episode four now) and I just think it's kind of cringeworthy and cheesy for some reason. But I'm probably biased because I've never liked anything by Philippa Gregory. The real treasure of the show is Amanda Hale playing Lady Margaret Beaufort.

The actress playing Elizabeth Woodville is not pretty enough to be her. This was a woman said to be the most beautiful in England and even if it was sucking up to a Queen her portrait alone shows she was beautiful. I laughed when her mother said no man in England could ride pass her daughter.
Also there is something about Aneurin(sp) that resembles the real Richard III.

I so agree about Aneurin Bernard (probably the best cast after Amanda Hale), but in regards to Rebecca Ferguson, I guess it's a matter of personal opinion. She's not how I've imagined Elizabeth Woodville either, but the producers apparently thought so and I also have friends who think that she's absolutely stunning.

 

[persian85033]

I'm watching this series because I'm very interested in anything having to do with the Wars of the Roses, especially the women of the Wars of the Roses. Although I do find a little lacking. I wish it had started a little earlier and covered Margaret of Anjou a little more. I don't think Margaret Beaufort's getting enough time, either. I mean, just exactly what was it that convinced Margaret Beaufort that her son was meant to be king? Was she given a prophecy? At least in the beginning wasn't the heir to the Lancastrian throne Prince Edward? She always seems to be forgetting about him. Then what about her Beaufort cousins? Wouldn't they come first? Although I do believe that the Yorkists had a better claim to the throne, the two Margarets are actually my two most favorite historical figures of this time.

One of the main things that bothered me was when Elizabeth and her mother, Jacquetta were removing Margaret of Anjou's old things, including a portait. Wasn't that a portait of Elizabeth herself? It looked something like this one, except that she was wearing red. File:ElizabethWoodville.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Also, wasn't Edward a very tall man? And didn't men wear their hair shoulder length and wear little caps back them?