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  #141  
Old 06-10-2011, 01:16 AM
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I love the show but it is not really true in some areas.Like JRM is way too good looking to play the king in his latter years.And Catherine of Aragon did'nt have dark hair-nothing like the painting!

But still I love the show despite the charcters not looking themselves.
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  #142  
Old 07-05-2011, 08:15 PM
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I've enjoyed the show and it would be great to make similar shows as "Stuarts","Hannovers","Windsors" etc.But I 've observed a lot of historical mistakes,I do not mean the great ones,but some details as well.
Speaking on the actors,I would say the actor performing Henry VIII was not convincing at all,very boyish and mild in comparison with real Henry who was feared by all.During his fight for divorcing Catherine Aragon,he and Ann Boleyn were presented nearly as the same generation or teenager lovers,while he was elder than Ann and it was visible.Ann was presented as a capricious girl living her first love.
The other wrong point was that the name of Henry's beloved sister was not Margaret,but Mary,who was actually married to Charles Brandon,the first Duke of Suffolk.
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  #143  
Old 07-05-2011, 10:32 PM
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Hi Lenora,

Yes, I agree with you about the age difference between Henry and Anne; and also that Henry was much more of a brute than portrayed here.

Mary, his younger sister, did marry Charles Brandon after her first husband, Louis XII of france died.
But, Henry did have an elder sister named Margaret, who married the King of Scotland.

Neither sister ever went to Portugal and murdered that country's king as depicted in "The Tudors" - that was just ludicous screenwriting....

Larry
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  #144  
Old 08-08-2011, 04:52 AM
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I think Natalie is a great actress who deserved to be nominated for emmy.She should also get more acting roles.
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  #145  
Old 08-08-2011, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by IloveCP
I think Natalie is a great actress who deserved to be nominated for emmy.She should also get more acting roles.
Agreed. I really hated how they portrayed Catherine Howard though. Not the actress, just the way they told her story.
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  #146  
Old 08-08-2011, 05:47 AM
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I did not like exactly the way Nathalie played Ann Boleyn,maybe it was the director's of series idea,but Ann Boleyn in these series lacked the specific charm that seduced the king.
The movie was someway far from reality,the series are very colourful and rich in different scenes(including semi-nude) ,but do not reflect the appropriate truth.
Anne Boleyn was more or less appropriate,while Henry VIII is totally inappropriate,as his daughter Mary in the movie seemed to be his younger sister.
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  #147  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:59 PM
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The screenwriters have stated that they wanted the King of France to be contained to his enemy-of-Henry subplot, and not have his father introduced at all (Henry's sister married an older king of France, not the young King of France they wanted to present in the show).

A mini-series can't have too many characters (unlike history) or the average viewer gets confused. That's not ludicrous to me, it's just show business.

I watch for the costumes (which can be critiqued as well) but also to compel myself to read more history (and threads like this one). The screenwriters/producers needed to collapse the cast down to a manageable/memorable number (hence the killing off of Henry FitzRoi before he really died, he would have had to have had his own marriage subplot; and the combining of Henry's two sisters into one sister). The fact that politics were very personal to Henry is dramatized, but real history is lost in the process.

Lenora, I agree with you about the casting for both Henry and Ann - although I find it impossible to take my eyes off of Nathalie in any scene she is in, so while she wasn't seductive per se, she did capture that part of A.B.'s allure. I was a little astonished to see their romance firing up over mere appearance (Henry appears to see Ann mostly from a distance, and she is far from being seductive towards him; she's acting pretty much like every other lady in the story).

I'm only to episode 5, though, and still mulling over the Queen of Portugal-as-Murderer plot (seems thrown in for no good reason; it is said the King's sister's husband died trying too hard to make an heir with her - he was in his mid-50's, old for the time). They could have kept to that story, would have been amusing.
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  #148  
Old 11-18-2011, 12:30 AM
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I think that it would be interesting to see how the dynamics play if they did a series on Edward's reign and then the conflict between Mary and the Dudleys and then Mary's reign and how she descended completely into fanatical insanity. Elizabeth's reign has been gone over all the time and besides, the miniseries with Helen Mirren and the movies done by Cate Blanchett have been among the most accurate.
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  #149  
Old 11-18-2011, 01:07 AM
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Yes, I agree - they need to continue onward with the Tudors! I'm watching it rather slowly...will have to at least check out the mini-series with Helen Mirren (pretty sure that's available now).
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  #150  
Old 11-18-2011, 03:22 AM
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I think the biggest fault was that they didn't make Jonathan dye his hair red. If he had, he would have probably been the most accurate portrayal of Henry at his youngest and this was after all, about Harry as he was a young man, married to Katherine and as he went through his wives. The real problem is that he (Jonathan) was allowed to bascially decide how HE would portray Henry, without following the script and other stuff like looks.


Other than that, this is probably an accurate depiction since men did wear shirts like that and Harry was in an acceindent with his head stuck underwater. Men back then were athletic because they wore armor that was incredibly heavy and had ot learn how to mount a running horse all the while wearing armor. So his muscular physique was certainly accurate.


As for Mary, the actress who portrayed her was utterly brilliant. She managed to portray a young kid used to being an heiress to a throne, to a woman who was reduced to being forced ot denounce her mother's own marriage and accept her father as head of a church that she viewed as heretical. I mean, from a kid trying to be a decent human being to a woman who was trying to find a husband, to a woman who was forced to denounce her own mother and faith and legitimacy, to a woman who lost a beloved governess, who finally broke and then became a budding monster. Up until her reign so much was done to her that it's no wonder she became the mess she did. The evolution is amazing.

Natalie Dormer WAS Anne Boleyn and there has never been anyone like her. She portrayed Anne's passion, her greed, her ambition, and her skillful campaign to get to the throne like a genius and the one thing that I admired is how she never tried to make herself (Anne) out to be a better person or a constant victim. Anne had her bad points and Natalie (and the script) showed them all and didn't hold back. It was amazing how everything changed after she became Queen, she went back from being a doted upon mistress to Harry saying "I said, be happy," practically beginning as a husbandly tyrant.
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  #151  
Old 11-18-2011, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
I think the biggest fault was that they didn't make Jonathan dye his hair red. If he had, he would have probably been the most accurate portrayal of Henry at his youngest and this was after all, about Harry as he was a young man, married to Katherine and as he went through his wives. The real problem is that he (Jonathan) was allowed to bascially decide how HE would portray Henry, without following the script and other stuff like looks.
I do agree here. Whilst Jonathan Rhys Meyers is one of my favourite actors, I always did wonder if he was the right person for the part. Possibly red hair and a fuller beard would have made him more convincing in this role. I am interested to see how he manages to portray Henry in his later years.
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  #152  
Old 11-18-2011, 06:43 AM
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I do agree here. Whilst Jonathan Rhys Meyers is one of my favourite actors, I always did wonder if he was the right person for the part. Possibly red hair and a fuller beard would have made him more convincing in this role. I am interested to see how he manages to portray Henry in his later years.

Jonathan Rhys Meyers looked more like Henry's rival King Francis I of France.

I found this Tudor inspired video on the French Valois Dynasty.

Les Valois (v's Tudors)

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  #153  
Old 11-18-2011, 06:55 PM
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King Francis on The Tudors was freakin hott! Wooo, definitely looked nothing like the real Francis. I think Jonathan's hair wasn't the main problem, it was his height and build. Richard Burton had dark hair when he played Henry in Anne of The Thousand Days and he was brilliant.
What did you guys think of the other actresses? Annabelle and Anita as Jane, Joss as Anne of Cleves...
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  #154  
Old 11-18-2011, 07:22 PM
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Too many historical discrepancies in the series, many already mentioned here, but the one that really bothered me throughout was how a skinny, scrawny actor could portray the great Henry VIII. For crying out loud, the king had blazing red hair, was tall and well-built and became corpulent as he aged. JRM was too miscast to play Henry, although he is a good actor. And the actress who portrayed Anne of Cleves ugly? Excuse me, but she was totally miscast as well and too beautiful for the role as someone the king spurned in disgust over her looks. Any king would have been happy to have her warm him up at night, I'm sure. Obviously, this series played for ratings and to an audience unfamiliar, or uncaring, about the historical accuracy of the period and characters. The costumes were beautiful, though, and altogether the series reminded me of a 16th-century version of the American soap opera of the '80s, "Dynasty."
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  #155  
Old 11-18-2011, 07:58 PM
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I think Joss was rightly cast, the portraits of the real Anne of Cleves make her seem like the most beautiful of the wives; even during her lifetime she was said to be by some to be more attractive than her successors. The reason Henry really didn't like her has often been speculated about.
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  #156  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:03 PM
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I think Joss was rightly cast, the portraits of the real Anne of Cleves make her seem like the most beautiful of the wives; even during her lifetime she was said to be by some to be more attractive than her successors. The reason Henry really didn't like her has often been speculated about.
I think she was pretty enough to attract any man of her time,but she wasn't petite and slim,as Henry was very capricious,he just rejected her without any real reason behind it.
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  #157  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:24 PM
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Hans Holbein reportedly made Anne of Cleves more attractive in her portrait that was sent to Henry during the marriage negotiations and Henry had said she had the face of a Flanders mare upon meeting her. Now there could have been more reasons for his rejection of her, such as inability to communicate since she couldn't speak English and he couldn't speak German. Also, upon first meeting, Henry came to Anne unexpectedly and unannounced and she didn't recognize him so didn't give him proper deference. Of course, Henry didn't like that at all. In addition, the style of German dress was considered to be unflattering and old-fashioned in the English court and Anne may not have been presented attractively in current court fashion which further offended him. And Henry definitely had a capricious and volatile nature. So, it may have been a series of unfortunate events that led to a hasty dissolution of the marriage, but at least this enabled Anne to keep her head and live actually a very happy life afterward as the "King's beloved sister."
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  #158  
Old 11-19-2011, 03:26 PM
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I am still in the Anne Boleyn section and now am very curious as to which biographies (or historical fiction) I might read to try and understand her turbulent, short life. Wikipedia lists so many potential lovers (who were arrested in connection with her treason accusations), which seems implausible. Is there really just that one contemporary portrait of her? There are such different contemporary accounts of her "beauty." I have always envisioned her to be beautiful (so I fell hook, line and sinker for the portrayal on The Tudors) but it seems she was not so pretty.

She had a large "wen" (cyst/pimple like thing) on her neck so she always wore high collared dresses? So says Wikipedia - but now I want to know the sources. I'm guessing I'll get help here (and I'll try to find the information on the other threads about history and books).
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  #159  
Old 11-19-2011, 03:35 PM
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Oh, and on the issue of Henry's looks - well, I've decided that looks are not the main issue in trying to portray a historic character. It may have mattered how they looked when they were alive in terms of how others saw them, but I'm guessing few dared to tell Henry VIII that he was not attractive; I'm guessing he saw himself as attractive (just read his letters to Anne last night), and that others reflected that back to him. In order to capture that essential appeal of a monarch of the 16th century, a handsome actor (by today's standards) had to be cast.

It's true that physical strength would have enhanced the real Henry VIII's appeal as a king, and that is not portrayed by casting JRM (if I had cast him, I would have kept his arms covered up more, but again, in trying to appeal to young modern audiences and give him the appeal/allure that the real Henry VIII would have had for his subjects as he went progressing about, they needed to show his arms - as today's young women find that type of arm very attractive).

Our modern notions of power no longer center around the physical, muscular build of a man (William the Conqueror and Henry VIII seem to have been similar physical types, big and muscular - and ultimately overweight). I'm trying to think of a modern celebrity or actor that even falls into that category - weight has become such a big issue concerning attractiveness, certainly there were people in both William the Conqueror's and Henry VIII's time who thought they were too fat, so it wasn't exactly a non-issue back then, either). But, big muscular guys who get fat are usually former weightlifters or footballers, finding an actor today who has that somatype would be hard - and no one would have wanted to watch!
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Old 11-19-2011, 03:50 PM
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^^^Alison Weir is a very good biographer and has written about Anne Boleyn, so you might want to try "The Lady in the Tower." Also, she wrote "Henry VIII: the king and his court," so that might give you good background as you watch the series. Try also a relatively new book by G.W. Bernard, "Anne Boleyn: Fatal Attractions." There's so much reading material on her since she is such a well-known and tragic queen, Henry VIII's most famous wife.

Anne was not known as a great beauty since she went against convention of the day with her dark coloring and had a very narrow face, from what I've read. She was very exotic and extremely stylish and brought French fashion to the English court since she spent much of her youth as a maid of honor to the French queen. She spoke English with a French accent. She had sharp wit and intelligence, was very flirtatious and men were highly attracted to her. I had also read that she had a great deal of nervous energy and was very active. She supposedly wore pearl collars to hide the mole on her neck and long sleeves over her hands to hide what was reportedly a sixth finger or a small projection on her hand.

I hope the recommendations help you.
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