"The Queen" (2006) - Film about Elizabeth II and the Death of Diana

[fandesacs2003]

I also think we have a different idea of what being human means.

I think you are fully right. Cultures are very different and regarding where you are coming from, showing your feelings could be considered normal, or not accepted.

I prefer a monarch to be as true as they can to their feelings in a public situation.

The problem is exactly that. After Diana's death, people suspected the Queen being completely cold to Diana's death, because she did not like her. Some thought that she did not hide her emotion, just she had no emotion....

In contrast Queen Elizabeth had liked Diana as a young girl but Diana had declared a public war in the press against the Royal Family and the Queen herself. Also the Queen was very concerned for her grandsons growing up in this environment, especially William, who was very shy and scared of the press. The Queen showed her humanness by paying attention to her grandson's needs first. I believe that anything else would have been inhuman.

Could she have made a public statement and tried to approach the public before? Yes, and I think she would have if Diana hadn't done that last Panorama interview where she criticized the monarchy and Charles' ability to inherit the throne. That one interview put the monarchy in a precarious position and so I find it perfectly understandable that the Queen was at a loss of words to express her thoughts at Diana's passing.

Yes, but the Queen sould not resume Diana's personnality just to one interview, even if she considered that it was a mistakefrom her. Diana was a complex and touching personnality, and despite her weakness to many points, she touched people's hard. And it is extremely egoist from the Queen to reject her, just because she did this interview. And do not forget that she did not lie to this interview. It was a highly manipulation moment, but we should not forget that at the very beginning, this young girl married a guy who was unfaithfull since the beginning, and his family ALL new it. Diana explosed like a uncontrolled bomb, that is true, but SHE was cheated.
out of this interview, Diana did many many good thinks for the people, and I think the people become angry because they just realised that the Queen was indifferent to ALL this.

Queen Sofia and King Juan Carlos have never been put in this position by their own immediate family and so you cannot compare the reactions of the two families. If Letizia had died after giving Jaime Penafiel a critical interview against Felipe, Juan Carlos, and Sofia, do you think Sofia would have rushed out to greet the public in mourning for Letizia's death?

For this I would agree with you, but Queen Sofia would have managed a "middle" behavior, in order not to offense people's feelings.
The Queen behaviored completely ABSENT and this hurt her people. IMO if she had issued a statement the first day after, people would have been satisfied, and they have never asked anything else.
You would never expect from your Monarch to walk around the whole day and to check the flowers in the Palace gate.

 

[Skydragon]

but SHE was cheated.

And in turn did her own cheating! This film and this thread are not about who cheated on who and at what point in the marriage.

out of this interview, Diana did many many good thinks for the people, and I think the people become angry because they just realised that the Queen was indifferent to ALL this.

The only person who benefited from the interview was Diana. Her son's didn't benefit, ordinary people didn't benefit!

Has it never occured to anyone, that HM and the rest of the family were so shocked by Diana's death, that they needed time to come to terms with it, let alone allow two young boys a little time to grieve. Most people who have lost someone in these circumstances are so shocked, that their only grip on sanity is to carry on, in as normal a routine as possible, that crying on demand and in public is not something that was in the British mentality. How terrible that anyone would say, it would have been OK to see them cry, that is not the way everyone wants to behave, in public, after the death of someone close to them!

 

[fandesacs2003]

And in turn did her own cheating!

Of course she did.
But when she married she was sincere. Charles and his family NOT. She wed with her illusions, he WED to be more free to cheat.
This is not the point of the thread. I just mentioned it to show that the Queen might have griefs against Diana, but being an intelligent woman, she for sure had think about reasons of Diana's behavior. And this sould have made her being "mild" after her death.

The only person who benefited from the interview was Diana. Her son's didn't benefit, ordinary people didn't benefit!

I did not say that people benefit from the interview.
I said that people benefit from acts she did during her 15 years of Princess of Wales.

 

[Elspeth]

The problem is exactly that. After Diana's death, people suspected the Queen being completely cold to Diana's death, because she did not like her. Some thought that she did not hide her emotion, just she had no emotion....

Initially the public blamed the press for the accident because of the paparazzi involvement. How easy for the press to deflect blame from themselves onto the royal family because the royal family behaved with their customary control and coolness. There's no reason why the Queen should be showing a public display of emotion about Diana after the "I want to be Queen in people's hearts" and "I don't think Charles is up to the top job" speech. If the Queen felt that staying at Balmoral with the young princes was the correct thing to do, it may have been the first time in her reign that she put personal considerations above cold duty, and it didn't matter to the public, which criticised her anyway. The press was determined that the blame would stick to the royal family, because the alternative was that the press would be the ones to get the blame, and they weren't going to let that happen. So if the Queen and Prince Philip had gone straight to London and left the boys at Blamoral, they'd have been abandoning their grandsons in an attempt to curry favour with the public; if they'd gone to London and taken the boys, they'd have been cynically using the princes to shore up their public image; if they stayed at Balmoral, they'd have been showing indifference toward Diana and the public. There are ways to put a negative spin on anything they did, and the press had a great deal of interest in making sure that's what happened.

Yes, but the Queen sould not resume Diana's personnality just to one interview, even if she considered that it was a mistakefrom her. Diana was a complex and touching personnality, and despite her weakness to many points, she touched people's hard. And it is extremely egoist from the Queen to reject her, just because she did this interview.

With the "I want to be Queen in people's hearts" speech, Diana rejected the Queen. In a constitutional monarchy, if the Queen isn't Queen in people's hearts, she's in deep trouble. Diana would have known that. I don't see any other interpretation of that comment other than that Diana had decided that she thought the Queen was as out of date as Charles and that Diana was the one who was really the royal who mattered. That was possibly the most stupid thing she ever did.

And do not forget that she did not lie to this interview. It was a highly manipulation moment, but we should not forget that at the very beginning, this young girl married a guy who was unfaithfull since the beginning, and his family ALL new it.

We only have Diana's word for that. Charles said he was faithful to her for the first few years of the marriage, so it's a case of his word against hers. Not at all the same as "his family all knew it." Diana believed he was unfaithful even though he assured her that his past relationships had ended. She didn't trust what he was telling her, and that sort of distrust is very unhealthy for a relationship.

Diana explosed like a uncontrolled bomb, that is true, but SHE was cheated.
out of this interview, Diana did many many good thinks for the people, and I think the people become angry because they just realised that the Queen was indifferent to ALL this.

I don't think people thought anything of the sort; they were being manipulated by the press, which had its own good reasons for deflecting blame onto the royal family, and the press were playing on people's emotions, not appealing to their reason. After the short-term emotional reaction, a lot of people realised they'd been played by the press, and most people these days realise that the Queen's public face isn't the same as her private one. Once the royal family caves in to a self-serving press, they're in trouble.

For this I would agree with you, but Queen Sofia would have managed a "middle" behavior, in order not to offense people's feelings.
The Queen behaviored completely ABSENT and this hurt her people. IMO if she had issued a statement the first day after, people would have been satisfied, and they have never asked anything else.
You would never expect from your Monarch to walk around the whole day and to check the flowers in the Palace gate.

As ysbel has pointed out, the circumstances are very different. Many British people would be terribly embarrassed by seeing the Queen in tears over something like that. You don't have to be overtly emotional; there's a difference between having emotions and showing them. But maybe that's the difference between Northern and Southern Europeans.

 

[fandesacs2003]

As ysbel has pointed out, the circumstances are very different. Many British people would be terribly embarrassed by seeing the Queen in tears over something like that. You don't have to be overtly emotional; there's a difference between having emotions and showing them. But maybe that's the difference between Northern and Southern Europeans.

I think you resumed perfectly the discussion. It's THE difference between Northern and Southern Europeans. What is touching for some is embarrassing for the other.
As for Queen/Diana story, it is an endless story, it is like the death sentence discussion, you have strong for and strong against. And it will never stop.

 

[PrincessofEurope]

Helen Mirren wins best actress BAFTA for her role as the Queen and the film wins Best film as well

 

[ysbel]

I just mentioned it to show that the Queen might have griefs against Diana, but being an intelligent woman, she for sure had think about reasons of Diana's behavior. And this sould have made her being "mild" after her death.

I think the Queen was pretty mild towards Diana after the divorce. She kept Diana's pre-divorce status in the Order of Precedence and placed her only second to the Queen which was highly unusual privilege to grant a divorced former royal. I keep on imagining how Queen Sofia would react if Letizia gave Penafiel an exclusive interview criticizing Felipe and the Spanish Royal Family and given all that Sofia and Juan Carlos have done to secure the Spanish throne for themselves and their children, I cannot imagine Sofia being any milder than the Queen Elizabeth was in this instance. On the contrary, I think Sofia would ruthlessly strike anybody down who endangers the monarchy no matter how close to the throne they are. She and Juan Carlos have worked too hard to let the monarchy be threatened and Queen Elizabeth has worked too hard for this also.

But since you say that the Queen should have been intelligent and think about the reasons behind Diana's behavior, surely we, the people, can be just as intelligent as you ask the Queen to be and we too can think about the reasons behind the Queen's behavior. We can choose to see that there are some very human and normal reasons and emotions behind why the Queen acted as she did in the same way you expect the Queen to see that there were very human and normal emotions to cause Diana to act like she did.

In response, we the people can choose to be as mild toward the Queen in her mistakes as you think the Queen should have been mild and forgiving towards Diana for her mistakes.

They all are human, they all made mistakes, they all hurt each other in one way or another. But if forgiveness is to be granted to Diana for her mistakes, surely the Queen deserves the same understanding and forgiveness. I don't believe the Queen's mistakes were any greater than Diana's.

 

[Elspeth]

BBC article about the BAFTA win:

BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Mirren adds Bafta to awards haul

 

[Skydragon]

But when she married she was sincere. Charles and his family NOT.

As others have already said, that was only Diana's version.

I think that HM did entirely the right thing by trying to give her grandchildren the privacy to get over their initial shock and tears, before being put on public display!

Most parents and grandparents would also do their best to allow a child breathing space, before facing a mob.

 

[fandesacs2003]

As others have already said, that was only Diana's version.

I think that HM did entirely the right thing by trying to give her grandchildren the privacy to get over their initial shock and tears, before being put on public display!

Most parents and grandparents would also do their best to allow a child breathing space, before facing a mob.

As I said before this is and endless discussion, because each one if us decides to believe what he prefers. According to this, we can have our opinion.

Take care
Ciao

 

[ysbel]

because each one if us decides to believe what he prefers.

That is true fandesacs Wasn't there a popular song by the rock group the Eagles that sang, "People believe what they want to believe"

I do believe the movie changed some people's opinions but for the most part I think the movie just reinforced the beliefs that people already had because most of us thought we 'knew' the truth even though we saw different truths about the same facts.

 

[Elspeth]

As I said before this is and endless discussion, because each one if us decides to believe what he prefers. According to this, we can have our opinion.

Take care
Ciao

Indeed we can. However, there's a difference between saying "I prefer to believe Diana's side of the story" or "I prefer to believe Charles's side of the story" and saying "This [Diana's side of the story] is an objective fact." If you want to believe Diana's assertion that Charles was having an affair with Camilla all the way through his engagement and marriage and disbelieve Charles's assertion that he gave Camilla up when he got engaged and didn't resume the affair for several years, that's entirely your prerogative, of course; just please don't present one side of this story as some sort of hard fact when there are opinions on both sides and we don't actually know the truth.

 

[Skydragon]

Take care
Ciao

And you.

 

[Warren]

Rather than have this thread veer off into yet another debate about the rights and wrongs of the CC&D triangle, we'll leave that particular discussion with Elspeth's last post. Since none of us know the intimate details it's better that we get back to discussing "The Queen".

thanks,
Warren
Royal Forums administrator

 

[RoyalKnottie]

I saw "the Queen" a few months ago and loved it. It was amazing to see how well Helen Mirren mimicked QEII. Throughout the entire film she never slouched once...even while in bed. Now I read how Helen had a voice coach to help her talk more like QEII (unable to quote source) and since I've never seen any of her other movies I didn't believe it until I watched Elizabeth I. After watching Elizabeth I, I realized how different the two characters sounded. I think Helen did a great job and I can't wait until "the Queen" comes out on DVD. Does anyone know when?

 

[Carolyn]

The Queen

This is my first post on this forum. Am still trying to find my way around.

I am really looking forward to this movie and have it on order. I decided I want to watch it in the privacy of my home and not in a movie theatre where there may be people who aren't really interested or don't know the history.

I am a long-time student of history. Mainly the Tudor period, but have great respect for Queen Elizabeth II also.

Carolyn

 

[Warren]

Welcome to the [posting] Forums Carolyn.

 

[sara1981]

you can vote on yahoo about before Oscar awards

Coverage of the 79th Annual Academy Awards - Yahoo! Movies
Oscar Nominees - Yahoo! Movies

if you makes votes for the Queen but i vote for The Queen would be 6 oscars! i would pray for that! if got BIG winner at oscars or not we have wait and see

 

[cr1066]

This is my first post on TRF and I just wanted to come out of obscurity to say that I thought the film offered a tremendously and refreshingly sympathetic view of the British royal family and of the Queen herself. It seems that most of the films I have seen regarding the royal family, and especially its relationship with Princess Diana, have been resoundingly negative. "The Queen," in contrast, offers a portrait of the Queen that I think is much closer to the truth and far more sympathetic: one of a woman with plain tastes and emotions like everyone else but with a sense of duty, dedication, and responsibility that very few people can possibly understand and thus often misinterpret. Really, the film made me feel a degree of empathy and respect for Queen Elizabeth II that I had not felt prior to seeing it. I'm sure the Queen's PR advisors (if they viewed the film) were very pleased with the portrayal.

 

[Elspeth]

From what I can gather, the author of the screenplay isn't much of a fan of the royal family; I wonder if this sympathetic portrayal was inadvertent, or whether maybe Helen Mirren gave her role a humanity the writer hadn't intended.

Welcome to the board, cr1066! I hope you carry on posting now you've broken the ice.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Just ordered this picture from Amazon. I may change my opinion on a second viewing but I doubt it.

 

[crisiñaki]

Helen Mirren Won the Oscar!
​

 

[sara1981]

Helen is the Queen Tea
The Sun Online - Oscars: Helen is the Queen Tea

Mirren wins best Actress
Sky News: Mirren Wins Best Actress

Dead cert Dame Helen triumphs at the Oscars
Dead cert Dame Helen triumphs at the Oscars | the Daily Mail

 

[Sister Morphine]

Helen Mirren Won the Oscar!
​

I loved her acceptance speech. I knew she was going to win; it was a pain in the rear waiting for the award to get presented!

 

[Thomas Parkman]

Dear Members,

I am delighted, I am delighted. I am delighted. I am tickled pink. I am now beginning to sound like Bertie Wooster!!!! And the real QEII has invited the main people in the movie to lunch. Whoopee. And I have had to go off chocolate, maybe I should go out and have some in celebration. Cheers. Cheerrfully TP

 

[Aurora810]

Is this for real? And if it is for real. I would love to be a pesky fly on the wall during that lunch!

 

[Suonymona]

If I were Helen, I would look out for the corgies!

 

[sassie]

I saw "the Queen" a few months ago and loved it. It was amazing to see how well Helen Mirren mimicked QEII. Throughout the entire film she never slouched once...even while in bed. Now I read how Helen had a voice coach to help her talk more like QEII (unable to quote source) and since I've never seen any of her other movies I didn't believe it until I watched Elizabeth I. After watching Elizabeth I, I realized how different the two characters sounded. I think Helen did a great job and I can't wait until "the Queen" comes out on DVD. Does anyone know when?

It's to be released on DVD in the USA on March 12th. I don't know what date it is slated for DVD release in the UK.

 

[Skydragon]

It's to be released on DVD in the USA on March 12th. I don't know what date it is slated for DVD release in the UK.

Same date for the UK.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Can you imagine the dialogue between the Queen and Dame Helen?

Queen : So Dame Helen, tell me, did you enjoy making money out of what was for my family and I a truly painful incident? And whilst we're about it, why don't you tell me why you constantly call me Elizabeth Windsor and why you said that my dress sense made you cry? Leave your Damehood at the door on the way out dear.