"Reinventing The Royals" (2015) - BBC Two Documentary on the Windsors

[Duc_et_Pair]

Yes, that was done to get her reaction. It was a terrible thing, but I remember Catherine very simply put on a nice smile through it all. No matter how she was treated by the media, she always managed to give a nice smile in the end. Although, many people on the royal forums turned that against her and tried to make it seem like Catherine just loved the attention that came with dating Prince William. Later her jobs were used against her too.

I'm enjoying the documentary already.

I think this "concept" of shouting insults to royals to get a reaction is unknown on the Continent. Imagine that someone shouts to the Duchess of Brabant (Princess Elisabeth) or to the Princess of Orange (Princess Catharina-Amalia) words like "c*nt", "sl*t", "wh*re" purely to get someone upset. Im-pos-si-ble. It has really shed a new light on the British press, good Lord, what a rats...

 

[hernameispekka]

At best Charles maybe turned a blind eye but the fact he is so hands on leads me to believe that Charles orchestrated the sell out of William and Harry to the tabloid press.

To think this was going on and Charles knew nothing about it doesn't pass the smell test for me.

Charles and Camilla were desperate to gain public acceptance but to do it at the expense of W&H is not right and won't gain either C or C any new fans.

Very unfortunate but does show how ruthless Charles can be to advance his own agenda

I think he was in on some things. The Camilla/William meeting though, I doubt it.

 

[royal rob]

I think he was in on some things. The Camilla/William meeting though, I doubt it.

I think he was well and truly in on that it was pretty clear


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[hernameispekka]

I think he was well and truly in on that it was pretty clear


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In what way was that "clear"? (I want honest facts, it's not a rhetorical question)

 

[royal rob]

In what way was that "clear"? (I want honest facts, it's not a rhetorical question)

If you watched it you would have seen how they say there was no other way it could have came out. And as someone posted it doesn't pass the smell test and it's MO so it was Very clear to me


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[hernameispekka]

If you watched it you would have seen how they say there was no other way it could have came out. And as someone posted it doesn't pass the smell test and it's MO so it was Very clear to me


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I think Charles briefed him on the meeting so they knew if they could "use" William as a way for people to accept Camilla. The PR person would need facts to go forward, to choose strategies based on what is being felt inside the family. That doesn't mean he briefed him as a way to get it out there.

 

[royal rob]

So you agree he used him then ?


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[hernameispekka]

So you agree he used him then ?


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A little, yes. But not as brutally as the PR-guy (Sorry for never saying his name. Forgets it all the time). And I don't think he was in on the worst things.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Princes William and Harry seem to have very warm and close relationships with their father and their stepmother, so we may assume all is well in the family. The much hyped documentary has not shed new light anyway, all what was told was already known.

 

[royal rob]

A little, yes. But not as brutally as the PR-guy (Sorry for never saying his name. Forgets it all the time). And I don't think he was in on the worst things.

A little,like being a little bit pregnant !!


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[hernameispekka]

A little,like being a little bit pregnant !!


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No, like doing something a little wrong and someone else using it to do something more wrong. Pregnant is a state that is or isn't. Doing wrong is much, much, much more gray than that.

 

[sophie25]

It was Diana they shouted these things at not Kate. I can remember it being reported at the time. They were freelance phototographers not the regular British press ones and they used to crowd around her and shout abusive things to try and make her cry. Her hairdresser Sam McKnight spoke about it in a documentary and said it was shocking to hear. It's a pity W and H were not old enough to have helped her at the time, can you imagine their reaction if their mother was alive and being treated like that nowadays?

 

[hernameispekka]

It was Diana they shouted these things at not Kate. I can remember it being reported at the time. They were freelance phototographers not the regular British press ones and they used to crowd around her and shout abusive things to try and make her cry. Her hairdresser Sam McKnight spoke about it in a documentary and said it was shocking to hear. It's a pity W and H were not old enough to have helped her at the time, can you imagine their reaction if their mother was alive and being treated like that nowadays?

Belive me. They did it to Kate as well!!

 

[royal rob]

No, like doing something a little wrong and someone else using it to do something more wrong. Pregnant is a state that is or isn't. Doing wrong is much, much, much more gray than that.

To me using your son this way has no gray. I couldn't use a child of mine to make me look good and his mother had only been died 10 months. Anyway it is old news we have always known about it. But for me it was upsetting looking at how young Will and Harry were you tend forget that and how lost they must have been


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[hernameispekka]

To me using your son this way has no gray. I couldn't use a child of mine to make me look good and his mother had only been died 10 months. Anyway it is old news we have always known about it. But for me it was upsetting looking at how young Will and Harry were you tend forget that and how lost they must have been


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People do it all the time. Put grades on the refrigerator, uses kids accomplishments to prove you're a good parent etc. I'm not saying what he did was right. But there is a difference between different levels of bad. And in that it is gray. The Harry drug story isn't that bad for example. The story would have run any way. Lying was the bad part, using it to show Charles did the right thing is gray. Telling about that the William/Camilla meet happened is gray, telling the full story is wrong. You see. There are different levels of this. And depending on which levels Charles was involved in he did different levels of wrong.

 

[Osipi]

I think he was in on some things. The Camilla/William meeting though, I doubt it.

First off, I'd like to state that I have not seen the program and can only give an opinion on what I'm reading here.

I'm taking it that the spin being talked about was the first meeting between W&H and Camilla. I'd like to suggest that it was the first public meeting and being seen together of the three and maybe (or even most likely) set up with the agreement of all that were involved. I find it very hard to believe that as close as Charles and Camilla were leading up to their engagement and subsequent marriage, that Charles' sons had never met her or spent any time with her. As a divorced man, there was really no reason whatsoever for C&C to have to sneak around and I do believe Charles has always had a close and open relationship with his sons. I do think though that the meeting in public would have been considered a sensitive issue but I don't for a minute believe that Charles would even consider "using" his sons for his own personal agenda and image.

 

[royal rob]

It isn't a public meeting it was will meeting her for the 1st time private meeting that "somehow " became public knowledge


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[hernameispekka]

First off, I'd like to state that I have not seen the program and can only give an opinion on what I'm reading here.

I'm taking it that the spin being talked about was the first meeting between W&H and Camilla. I'd like to suggest that it was the first public meeting and being seen together of the three and maybe (or even most likely) set up with the agreement of all that were involved. I find it very hard to believe that as close as Charles and Camilla were leading up to their engagement and subsequent marriage, that Charles' sons had never met her or spent any time with her. As a divorced man, there was really no reason whatsoever for C&C to have to sneak around and I do believe Charles has always had a close and open relationship with his sons. I do think though that the meeting in public would have been considered a sensitive issue but I don't for a minute believe that Charles would even consider "using" his sons for his own personal agenda and image.

As I understood it, it was the first time William met her as a one-to-one personal visit with his fathers girlfriend. He probably have met her in other situations before but not this way.

It isn't a public meeting it was will meeting her for the 1st time private meeting that "somehow " became public knowledge


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We all know how it became public knowledge. But what we disagree on is Charles involvement in the matter.

 

[royal rob]

It would be very very easy to keep that private if he wanted too.but that wasn't what it was about
It was set up so people would see Will accepting Camilla
And as this just keeps going round and round I'm over and out it's very late here


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[Duc_et_Pair]

It was Diana they shouted these things at not Kate. I can remember it being reported at the time. They were freelance phototographers not the regular British press ones and they used to crowd around her and shout abusive things to try and make her cry. Her hairdresser Sam McKnight spoke about it in a documentary and said it was shocking to hear. It's a pity W and H were not old enough to have helped her at the time, can you imagine their reaction if their mother was alive and being treated like that nowadays?

The preview at the end of the documentary, for Part II next week, showed these nasty images... to Miss Middleton...

 

[hernameispekka]

It would be very very easy to keep that private if he wanted too.but that wasn't what it was about
It was set up so people would see Will accepting Camilla
And as this just keeps going round and round I'm over and out it's very late here


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Yes, it was his fault telling the spin-master. But that is a small/inncoent wrong. If he was behind it leaking, it was a big wrong. But we don't know that.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Are there really people who believe in all this nonsense? I can mention several factual errors in this documentary. The press, Diana and Sarah did the royal family into a sopeopra in the 80 and 90s, and now the media wants to continue it. They wants scandals and I understand very well that Charles, William, and Harry hates the press. The big majority of British journalists know very little about the monarchy and they love to tell their lies and wrong facts to the public. I don't trust anyone in this documentary with the exception of two people.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I agree with you but The-Mother-Of-All-Faults was that both the Prince and the Princess of Wales have given the media one finger each. They took their whole hands. I am sure a lot of the problems during the War of the Waleses spiralled out of control because of the immense media pressure and the spin of so many people interfering in what was essentially a problem between two people.

The media are absolute rats. Charles and Diana were however, in retrospect, fools to engage with them. The best example is Prince Charles' "chief spin" who turned out a very vitriolic and nasty figure once he was sidelined by the royals...

 

[sophie25]

The preview at the end of the documentary, for Part II next week, showed these nasty images... to Miss Middleton...

I remember the images of her being surrounded by photographers on her 25th birthday but there was never any suggestion that they were shouting and swearing at her.

 

[hernameispekka]

I agree with you but The-Mother-Of-All-Faults was that both the Prince and the Princess of Wales have given the media one finger each. They took their whole hands. I am sure a lot of the problems during the War of the Waleses spiralled out of control because of the immense media pressure and the spin of so many people interfering in what was essentially a problem between two people.

The media are absolute rats. Charles and Diana were however, in retrospect, fools to engage with them. The best example is Prince Charles' "chief spin" who turned out a very vitriolic and nasty figure once he was sidelined by the royals...

I agree. Concerning the media, PR, spindoctors etc that generation was foolish, naive and out of control. I think it got out of hand.

 

[sophie25]

It would be very very easy to keep that private if he wanted too.but that wasn't what it was about
It was set up so people would see Will accepting Camilla
And as this just keeps going round and round I'm over and out it's very late here


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The strategy worked a treat as well. I clearly remember any number of Charles and Camilla's friends appearing in the media afterwards saying that if W and H could accept her then the British people should to. It definitely shut a lot of people up, not because they had changed their minds about Camilla but because it made them look mean spirited if they kept criticizing her so it was a fait accompli once that meeting was leaked.

 

[Dman]

People may not like it and may have disagreements about the events, but that media campaign for Charles and Camilla wasn't pretty. Some people were used and thrown under the bus in order to get Charles & Camilla accepted and where they are today. It worked. Mark Bolland did his job.

 

[hernameispekka]

People may not like it and may have disagreements about the events, but that media campaign for Charles and Camilla wasn't pretty. Some people were used and thrown under the bus in order to get Charles & Camilla accepted and where they are today. It worked. Mark Bolland did his job.

I agree. He did his job. That wasn't nice though, but kind of needed then.... To bad though.... But for the sake of the monarchy it is important for Charles to be liked, or at least accepted.

 

[Rudolph]

But Camilla still isn't that popular today. She may be 'accepted' but that's about it as far as public opinion goes.

It seems like a lot for Charles and his team to put his sons and friends through just in order for him to marry Camilla.

I just wonder if these shenanigans still go on today.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

I agree with you but The-Mother-Of-All-Faults was that both the Prince and the Princess of Wales have given the media one finger each. They took their whole hands. I am sure a lot of the problems during the War of the Waleses spiralled out of control because of the immense media pressure and the spin of so many people interfering in what was essentially a problem between two people.

The media are absolute rats. Charles and Diana were however, in retrospect, fools to engage with them. The best example is Prince Charles' "chief spin" who turned out a very vitriolic and nasty figure once he was sidelined by the royals...

I agree with you.