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  #121  
Old 02-20-2015, 10:33 AM
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I don't think the media is all evil. But things like this tend to take on a life of it's own. All sides got hurt and everyone just wanted to get the best out of the situation. It's easy for us to sit on the sideline and judge all sides. Not so easy living it, I presume.

Edit to avoid double post:
To me, regarding the William/Camilla meet there are several version that could be true, some that hasn't even been considered. The main one is:

-Charles threw his son under the bus to heighten the image of his girlfriend.

Others also mentioned:

- He briefed his PR person on how it went, that person used it to heighten the image of his employers girlfriend.
- It is all fake. It's a possibility, or that parts of it is. Like the drug rehab story.

An other that people haven't mentioned:

- William was in on it from the beginning or was consulted before the story went out. Those comments that he was angry can just as well be fake. He could have been in on telling the story, to make his dad happy.

And probably a 1000 other versions is possible. We will never know. I myself tend to think the best of people so forgive me for not yelling "Charles is a horrible father that trows his sons under the bus" based on hints, speculations and such....
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  #122  
Old 02-20-2015, 10:47 AM
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Penny Junor, who wrote the book “Charles: Victim or Villain,” says in the documentary that Bolland assisted her in a take-down of Diana.

The book claims Diana was the first to have an affair and threatened to have Camilla killed.

This I didn't know. Makes me wonder just how accurate the book really is. Probably all spin and PR
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  #123  
Old 02-20-2015, 11:47 AM
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Charles, Diana, Camilla and their camps could have done things differently. They are the ones that fed the media, the media ate everything up and everything went to hell in a handbasket. Mark Bolland had to come in and work some miracles. It wasn't a good thing, but it got the job done. Camilla went from the longtime mistress, to an HRH and future Princess Consort/Queen.
Charles is more respected today than he was in the 90's.

Penny Junor is a rather bitter person, IMO.
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  #124  
Old 02-20-2015, 11:50 AM
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I'm not one who believes the end justifies the means. Camilla maybe Charles's wife but I fear it has come with a cost
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  #125  
Old 02-20-2015, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
I'm not one who believes the end justifies the means. Camilla maybe Charles's wife but I fear it has come with a cost
I agree. This was badly done. But I don't think it was mean or evil from Charles standpoint. When you're in a position like they are they need good PR and people around them. My guess is that all Charles is guilty of is being gullible and having bad people persuade him things. We have seen this time and time again with people in positions like this. They are reliant on having good people around them.
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  #126  
Old 02-20-2015, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
First off, I'd like to state that I have not seen the program and can only give an opinion on what I'm reading here.

I'm taking it that the spin being talked about was the first meeting between W&H and Camilla. I'd like to suggest that it was the first public meeting and being seen together of the three and maybe (or even most likely) set up with the agreement of all that were involved. I find it very hard to believe that as close as Charles and Camilla were leading up to their engagement and subsequent marriage, that Charles' sons had never met her or spent any time with her. As a divorced man, there was really no reason whatsoever for C&C to have to sneak around and I do believe Charles has always had a close and open relationship with his sons. I do think though that the meeting in public would have been considered a sensitive issue but I don't for a minute believe that Charles would even consider "using" his sons for his own personal agenda and image.
I haven't seen the documentary either but I agree. Moreover, there was absolutely no reason for Charles to leak the story that William met Camilla at that point.

What great PR did they gain? Nothing. They got a headline that William met Camilla. As you point out, that was going to happen anyway. What was the great advantage of having that headline on that particular day.

If they wanted a PR victory, it would have been a public meeting of William, Harry and Camilla. Many TV talking heads were advising Charles that all he needed was a photo of William and Harry looking happy in Camilla's, but that didn't happen until after Charles and Camilla were engaged.

On the other hand, the PR downside of leaking that story was that it would give William and Harry reason to distrust Camilla. Plus there was a risk that William and Harry would become angry with Charles. Why would Charles risk that if the story would have happened on its own anyway?

It just wasn't worth it. The only story that makes sense is the one that came out shortly after the event: one of Camilla's trusted aids accidently leaked the story and was fired.

I post this as someone who believes that there was a PR campaign to get the public to accept Camilla. I also agree that she is accepted, but not necessarily popular. I also don't buy that William and Harry are "close" to Camilla. I think they like her and don't blame her for Diana's unhappiness, but I don't think they choose to spend a lot of time with her.

But this story just doesn't make any sense.
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  #127  
Old 02-20-2015, 01:03 PM
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The daily fail has a article about the documentary.

Prince Charles' PR man angered William and Harry claims BBC documentary | Daily Mail Online

Those of you who criticize Charles constantly should know the facts. I'm not saying that Charles is flawless, but he has been a wonderful father to Willian and Harry and they have a close relationship. This has been confirmed by people close to the family, also by journalists. William and Harry have repeatedly defended Charles in interviews / documentaries through the 2000s.

And to those of you who complain / not like Camilla should learn more about her. She is a warm and good person. And most of the people who have met her, they like her.
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  #128  
Old 02-20-2015, 01:12 PM
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The Sun's royal correspondent from 1995 to 2002 Charles Rae told the documentary that details of the meeting between Camilla and William had been revealed by Mr Bolland and not by Camilla's secretary
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  #129  
Old 02-20-2015, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I haven't seen the documentary either but I agree. Moreover, there was absolutely no reason for Charles to leak the story that William met Camilla at that point.

What great PR did they gain? Nothing. They got a headline that William met Camilla. As you point out, that was going to happen anyway. What was the great advantage of having that headline on that particular day.

If they wanted a PR victory, it would have been a public meeting of William, Harry and Camilla. Many TV talking heads were advising Charles that all he needed was a photo of William and Harry looking happy in Camilla's, but that didn't happen until after Charles and Camilla were engaged.

On the other hand, the PR downside of leaking that story was that it would give William and Harry reason to distrust Camilla. Plus there was a risk that William and Harry would become angry with Charles. Why would Charles risk that if the story would have happened on its own anyway?

It just wasn't worth it. The only story that makes sense is the one that came out shortly after the event: one of Camilla's trusted aids accidently leaked the story and was fired.

I post this as someone who believes that there was a PR campaign to get the public to accept Camilla. I also agree that she is accepted, but not necessarily popular. I also don't buy that William and Harry are "close" to Camilla. I think they like her and don't blame her for Diana's unhappiness, but I don't think they choose to spend a lot of time with her.

But this story just doesn't make any sense.
Putting William and Camilla in the same setting had to be very carefully done. They couldn't arrange an open public event with Princes William and Harry with Camilla and everyone looking happy at the time. It would have looked forced, there would have been a backlash and I'm not sure William or even Harry would have gone through with it anyway. Just having Camilla show up an event where William is attending, but no picture of them taken together, pretty much did the trick. The same thing happened when William accompanied his father to a (his first and last) Royal Garden Party at Holyrood House in Scotland. Camilla also attended the Garden Party, but he wasn't seen with Camilla. The early idea was to make it look like William was welcoming Camilla into the family and accepting the reality.
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  #130  
Old 02-20-2015, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Penny Junor, who wrote the book “Charles: Victim or Villain,” says in the documentary that Bolland assisted her in a take-down of Diana.

The book claims Diana was the first to have an affair and threatened to have Camilla killed.

This I didn't know. Makes me wonder just how accurate the book really is. Probably all spin and PR
Penny Junor deserves a parade uniform given that she has been beating the drum for Charles for decades. I will be curious if she receives some kind of special medal or award from Charles when he is king.
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  #131  
Old 02-20-2015, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Putting William and Camilla in the same setting had to be very carefully done. They couldn't arrange an open public event with Princes William and Harry with Camilla and everyone looking happy at the time. It would have looked forced, there would have been a backlash and I'm not sure William or even Harry would have gone through with it anyway. Just having Camilla show up an event where William is attending, but no picture of them taken together, pretty much did the trick. The same thing happened when William accompanied his father to a (his first and last) Royal Garden Party at Holyrood House in Scotland. Camilla also attended the Garden Party, but he wasn't seen with Camilla. The early idea was to make it look like William was welcoming Camilla into the family and accepting the reality.
IIRC, and I haven't been able to watch the documentary, William decided to meet Camilla because he and Harry were planning to invite her to the birthday party they were planning for Charles. There is absolutely no reason that the PR people couldn't have waited until Charles' birthday party to reveal that William and Harry had met Camilla.

It would have been a much better way to convey that William and Harry accepted her into Charles life. As it was, the controversy of the leak overshadowed the meeting and Camilla's aide was forced to resign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph
The Sun's royal correspondent from 1995 to 2002 Charles Rae told the documentary that details of the meeting between Camilla and William had been revealed by Mr Bolland and not by Camilla's secretary.
I'm sure that has been reported but it doesn't mean it is true. IIRC, Camilla's aide admitted to accidently leaking the story at the time.

Everyone can choose which source to believe but if Bolland leaked that meeting, he was incompetent. It was high risk with little reward.

Also, Charles' image was on the upswing at that point anyway. Many people perceived him as being a good father to William and Harry after Diana's death.

Finally, the royal family has always taken a long-term approach to popularity. Charles knew that the public wouldn't immediately accept Camilla. There was no reason for him to leak the news of the meeting.
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  #132  
Old 02-20-2015, 06:41 PM
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I wasn't a fan of the documentary, but I think I still might watch the other documentaries in the series. I took most of what was said in the documentary with a grain of salt, as I noticed the Mirror was shown or mentioned a lot.

It had quite a republican vibe to me, which I found unusual, as I've watched a lot of documentaries about the BRF since I became interested around the age of eight, and almost all of them have had a pro-monarchy or royalist vibe.

After having watched the documentary I can also totally understand why Charles thought it was controversial.
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  #133  
Old 02-20-2015, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
IIRC, and I haven't been able to watch the documentary, William decided to meet Camilla because he and Harry were planning to invite her to the birthday party they were planning for Charles. There is absolutely no reason that the PR people couldn't have waited until Charles' birthday party to reveal that William and Harry had met Camilla.

It would have been a much better way to convey that William and Harry accepted her into Charles life. As it was, the controversy of the leak overshadowed the meeting and Camilla's aide was forced to resign.
I think the idea was to get William and Camilla together and get the story out. I don't think anyone "accidentally" leaked the story. The campaign was moving and moving fast.

I think William tried his best to not be photographed with Camilla. He also wasn't photographed with her at the Royal Garden Party in Scotland.
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  #134  
Old 02-20-2015, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
IIRC, and I haven't been able to watch the documentary, William decided to meet Camilla because he and Harry were planning to invite her to the birthday party they were planning for Charles. There is absolutely no reason that the PR people couldn't have waited until Charles' birthday party to reveal that William and Harry had met Camilla.
I believe it was a surprise birthday party held quite some time before Charles' actual birthday party.

According to an April 1995 People magazine William had already met Camilla and had known her & APB for years.

The 1998 meeting was not their first meeting.

IIRC Bollard quit in 2002, three years before C&C married.

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I think William tried his best to not be photographed with Camilla. He also wasn't photographed with her at the Royal Garden Party in Scotland.
I am not familiar with the date of this event but William attended Laura's 21st birthday party and spent the evening laughing with Camilla. Charles as usual did not attend. Laura's 21st birthday was April 20, 1999.

William was 16.

Not a PR move.
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  #135  
Old 02-20-2015, 08:28 PM
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All I read on here is everyone's interpretation of events, depending on their starting point. And it will always be like that.

This programme didn't tell us anything that wasn't already in the public domain apart from the fact that journalists don't appear to like each other very much and no one like Piers Morgan. On second thoughts, I think we all knew that anyway.

Next week, with the treatment of the young royals, might (and I mean might) be interesting
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  #136  
Old 02-20-2015, 08:48 PM
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All I read on here is everyone's interpretation of events, depending on their starting point. And it will always be like that.

This programme didn't tell us anything that wasn't already in the public domain apart from the fact that journalists don't appear to like each other very much and no one like Piers Morgan. On second thoughts, I think we all knew that anyway.

Next week, with the treatment of the young royals, might (and I mean might) be interesting
I agree, it's not revealing anything that wasn't already known. It was an interesting PR campaign though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
I am not familiar with the date of this event but William attended Laura's 21st birthday party and spent the evening laughing with Camilla. Charles as usual did not attend. Laura's 21st birthday was April 20, 1999.

William was 16.

Not a PR move.
William may have seen Camilla a Laura's party, but the PR move was to get them to appear at the same event in public.

I think Charles and Camilla tried to get William and Harry to be good friends with Tom and Laura, but that never really worked out.
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  #137  
Old 02-20-2015, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I think the idea was to get William and Camilla together and get the story out. I don't think anyone "accidentally" leaked the story. The campaign was moving and moving fast.

I think William tried his best to not be photographed with Camilla. He also wasn't photographed with her at the Royal Garden Party in Scotland.
They wouldn't have needed William's approval to get a photo of him with Camilla. If you can believe that they deliberately leaked the news of the meeting--which gave them nothing--I don't know why you assume that Boland wouldn't have tipped off the paparazzi when Charles, Camilla, William and Harry were out riding, shooting, hunting, or whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla
I believe it was a surprise birthday party held quite some time before Charles' actual birthday party.

According to an April 1995 People magazine William had already met Camilla and had known her & APB for years.

The 1998 meeting was not their first meeting.
I can believe that William and Harry knew Camilla prior to Diana going public in 1992, but this would have been the first meeting since Diana's death.

If the party was before November, it would have made even more sense to wait until then to reveal that William and Harry arranged for Camilla to be at Charles' party. The PR machine would have gotten a lot more mileage out of the story without the allegations that Charles was using William for his own purposes.

All the advantages of the first story without the negativity.
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  #138  
Old 02-20-2015, 10:16 PM
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IMO, that is why everything adds up to an accidental leak.

I read that William, Harry, Laura and Tom had been spending Easter together for several years at Balmoral. The article was written in January 1999 which would mean prior to Diana's death.

William's meeting was June 1998, Easter was in April.

Several years, imo, is at 3 years so 1996.

Can anyone confirm where Charles, William and Harry spent Easter of 1998? 1997? 1996?
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  #139  
Old 02-20-2015, 11:32 PM
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This is what I see as well. Neither Charles nor Camilla are "popular." I remember when MAJESTY MAGAZINE were trying to popularize Camilla, putting her on the cover and running articles about how "down-to-earth" she was and how she made Prince Charles happy, etc. It was very obvious. That doesn't happen now.

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But Camilla still isn't that popular today. She may be 'accepted' but that's about it as far as public opinion goes.
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  #140  
Old 02-21-2015, 12:12 AM
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It is a culture of youth.
No one expects a woman in her 50s or 60s to be popular.
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