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  #181  
Old 02-21-2015, 05:56 PM
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I agree but I still don't understand why Bolland would have leaked the news of the meeting in the first place.
Me neither.... But as I said, I was to young at the time so I wouldn't know either way :P
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  #182  
Old 02-21-2015, 06:23 PM
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I agree but I still don't understand why Bolland would have leaked the news of the meeting in the first place.
It was positive news for the PR Campaign. Just my guess.
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  #183  
Old 02-21-2015, 06:34 PM
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It was positive news for the PR Campaign. Just my guess.
It was a headline that William met Camilla. That story would have run sooner or later. Charles' approval rating was near 60% earlier that year and there were no negative stories at that point.

How was this leak positive news for the PR campaign?
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  #184  
Old 02-21-2015, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
It was a headline that William met Camilla. That story would have run sooner or later. Charles' approval rating was near 60% earlier that year and there were no negative stories at that point.

How was this leak positive news for the PR campaign?
It doesn't matter that the negative stories died down, the very idea of William and Camilla getting together was an event that many on the inside couldn't just sit on. As we have known for a longtime, William wasn't happy about the leak, but it was still good news for the main party. The media went nuts over it, an aide was fired, but it didn't hurt the plan.
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  #185  
Old 02-21-2015, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
It doesn't matter that the negative stories died down, the very idea of William and Camilla getting together was an event that many on the inside couldn't just sit on. As we have known for a longtime, William wasn't happy about the leak, but it was still good news for the main party. The media went nuts over it, an aide was fired, but it didn't hurt the plan.
It did hurt the plan. The story turned quickly from William and Camilla meeting to who leaked it and why. That is why Amanda MacManus was (briefly) fired.

The improvement in Charles' approval ratings was based on the perception that he was a good father to William and Harry. After the leak, there was an allegation that Charles leaked the story to make himself look good and actually undermined the effort to enhance his public image.

The fact that William and Harry met Camilla was going to come out on its own. It would have been far better (and not just in hindsight) to let that news unfold naturally.

It also fails to take into account the personal feelings of William and Harry about Camilla and Charles.
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  #186  
Old 02-21-2015, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
It did hurt the plan. The story turned quickly from William and Camilla meeting to who leaked it and why. That is why Amanda MacManus was (briefly) fired.

The improvement in Charles' approval ratings was based on the perception that he was a good father to William and Harry. After the leak, there was an allegation that Charles leaked the story to make himself look good and actually undermined the effort to enhance his public image.

The fact that William and Harry met Camilla was going to come out on its own. It would have been far better (and not just in hindsight) to let that news unfold naturally.

It also fails to take into account the personal feelings of William and Harry about Camilla and Charles.
Yes, there was a brief bump in the plan over the leak, but in the end it all worked out.

Listen, the PR campaign didn't run very smoothly and some people were used and some people had reservations about the whole thing, but it worked. I have no doubt in my mind that William and Harry did what they thought was best for their dad. They had just lost their mother, and I'm sure they wanted to see their father happy once again.


It took some prayers and miracles to get Camilla were she is today.
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  #187  
Old 02-21-2015, 07:53 PM
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Having finally trawled through the first episode of this documentary (and you really do need to be in the mood to watch it!), I am left in no doubt that to hire a PR expert or public relations team etc is a huge mistake and will do no one any good whatsoever in presenting themselves bette in public. If I was royal, I think I would make do with an elderly courtier who has worked at the palace for 50 years "and knows about these things" to advise me on my public image - it couldn't be any worse than employing a spin-doctor!

I agree with US Royal Watcher that the meeting between William and Camilla should simply have been left to unfold naturally. I also feel this is the case with a number of other incidents such as Charles and Camilla's first public outing together at her sisters birthday and the 10th anniversary of the Press Complaints Commission where William and Camilla were attending the same event at the same time. None of these things should have needed to be hyped up before hand and just sensationalised the issue.
As Dman says, it did work out in the end, but I would say more in spite of the spin than because of it.

I can now fully understand William's stance with regard to his relations with the press, his public attitude and countenance, his seeming to be in control of what he does, when he does it, what photos are issued of himself and his family etc, taking legal action when he sees fit, protecting his privacy and all the rest of it.
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  #188  
Old 02-21-2015, 07:53 PM
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After watching the documentary, I was left with the impression that the royals will use anyone and any means to further their purpose - to be the No1 popular figure in the RF. A few of those who have been used, caught, and then abandoned by the RF seem to have banded together to make this documentary.

What an existence these people have! Cressida's family would fit right in with this clock and dagger scenario with the media. Perhaps that is why she got ditched. Too good at it!!

It would also explain why Will and Henry hate the game so much. They've been played by both sides it seems.
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  #189  
Old 02-21-2015, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
Having finally trawled through the first episode of this documentary (and you really do need to be in the mood to watch it!), I am left in no doubt that to hire a PR expert or public relations team etc is a huge mistake and will do no one any good whatsoever in presenting themselves bette in public. If I was royal, I think I would make do with an elderly courtier who has worked at the palace for 50 years "and knows about these things" to advise me on my public image - it couldn't be any worse than employing a spin-doctor!

I agree with US Royal Watcher that the meeting between William and Camilla should simply have been left to unfold naturally. I also feel this is the case with a number of other incidents such as Charles and Camilla's first public outing together at her sisters birthday and the 10th anniversary of the Press Complaints Commission where William and Camilla were attending the same event at the same time. None of these things should have needed to be hyped up before hand and just sensationalised the issue.
As Dman says, it did work out in the end, but I would say more in spite of the spin than because of it.

I can now fully understand William's stance with regard to his relations with the press, his public attitude and countenance, his seeming to be in control of what he does, when he does it, what photos are issued of himself and his family etc, taking legal action when he sees fit, protecting his privacy and all the rest of it.
Are you serious? Not all PR is bad. The media has an agenda, and the royals need "soldiers" on their part as well to counter balance. And PR is not lying. If you have a dress you want to sell, you put it nicely for people to see with good lightening and good accessories. You don't waddle it up in a corner hoping people will discover it looks nice. It's not lying, just clever salesman ship. This spin doctor went over the top, but PR is not bad.
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  #190  
Old 02-21-2015, 08:25 PM
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I do not think Bollard was the source of the leak. I believe Amanda told her husband who told another person who told the press.

Amanda was restated because she was Camilla's friend and because Camilla understood about 'bedroom' talk between spouses. Amanda was working for Camilla and not Charles so it is understandable that Camilla reinstated Amanda.

In 1998, Camilla could trust very few people and Amanda did not intend any harm when she told her husband so Camilla reinstated her.

No cloak and dagger, no conspiracy, no PR stunt.

Just a woman who told her husband who told someone else.

ETA: Maybe William was upset because he thought Amanda has ruined the surprise birthday party for his father. She was reinstated in November.
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  #191  
Old 02-21-2015, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
Are you serious? Not all PR is bad. The media has an agenda, and the royals need "soldiers" on their part as well to counter balance. And PR is not lying. If you have a dress you want to sell, you put it nicely for people to see with good lightening and good accessories. You don't waddle it up in a corner hoping people will discover it looks nice. It's not lying, just clever salesman ship. This spin doctor went over the top, but PR is not bad.
PR is not bad but if Bolland was responsible for this leak, he didn't exercise good judgment and wasn't the best person to handle PR for Prince Charles. The role of a PR person is to use their expertise and personal relationships to steer reporters towards positive stories about their clients, and help minimize damage caused by negative stories.

I think Charles needed a good PR person to rehabilitate his image and highlight his charity work, which was largely ignored by the media. He also needed someone to present a positive view of Camilla to the UK. Mark Bolland succeeded with those two goals.

However, if Bolland leaked stories about William and Harry's relationship with Camilla, it was a huge mistake and unnecessary. Not only was there a strong possibility of public backlash, but it was not in William and Harry's best interest. Ultimately, it was not in Charles' interest because it probably set back his efforts to build a trusting relationship between his sons and Camilla.

Charles tried very hard not to use his sons as pawns between 1992-97. It's unfortunate if he slipped up. But I am not sure he did. According to this article, even Richard Kay acknowledged that Charles was a bit naïve and probably not involved--again, that assumes that Bolland was responsible. Prince Charles ‘Sold Out’ William and Harry To The Tabloids - The Daily Beast
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  #192  
Old 02-21-2015, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
PR is not bad but if Bolland was responsible for this leak, he didn't exercise good judgment and wasn't the best person to handle PR for Prince Charles. The role of a PR person is to use their expertise and personal relationships to steer reporters towards positive stories about their clients, and help minimize damage caused by negative stories.

I think Charles needed a good PR person to rehabilitate his image and highlight his charity work, which was largely ignored by the media. He also needed someone to present a positive view of Camilla to the UK. Mark Bolland succeeded with those two goals.

However, if Bolland leaked stories about William and Harry's relationship with Camilla, it was a huge mistake and unnecessary. Not only was there a strong possibility of public backlash, but it was not in William and Harry's best interest. Ultimately, it was not in Charles' interest because it probably set back his efforts to build a trusting relationship between his sons and Camilla.

Charles tried very hard not to use his sons as pawns between 1992-97. It's unfortunate if he slipped up. But I am not sure he did. According to this article, even Richard Kay acknowledged that Charles was a bit naïve and probably not involved--again, that assumes that Bolland was responsible. Prince Charles ‘Sold Out’ William and Harry To The Tabloids - The Daily Beast
I did not say Bolland was OK. I was saying that the idea that they shouldn't have PR people, just old advisers, would not be preferable.
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  #193  
Old 02-21-2015, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
Are you serious? Not all PR is bad. The media has an agenda, and the royals need "soldiers" on their part as well to counter balance. And PR is not lying. If you have a dress you want to sell, you put it nicely for people to see with good lightening and good accessories. You don't waddle it up in a corner hoping people will discover it looks nice. It's not lying, just clever salesman ship. This spin doctor went over the top, but PR is not bad.
Yes my dear, I am serious in the context of what I have seen and what I would do if I was royal - I'd take my chances with either my instincts (such as the are) and the old courtier, just as people who hire spin doctors (not so much PR I admit) take their chances too. Having said all that, what happened in Charles' case happened a very long time ago and I can't blame him for doing what he could at the time to make his public image better and introduce Camilla onto the scene officially.
You are right that PR can be great - I'm a sucker for a good advert or sales pitch, but I never needed to be sold my royal family nor my future king's wife, I simple would have preferred it all to have developed more naturally.
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  #194  
Old 02-21-2015, 09:58 PM
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Yes my dear, I am serious in the context of what I have seen and what I would do if I was royal - I'd take my chances with either my instincts (such as the are) and the old courtier, just as people who hire spin doctors (not so much PR I admit) take their chances too. Having said all that, what happened in Charles' case happened a very long time ago and I can't blame him for doing what he could at the time to make his public image better and introduce Camilla onto the scene officially.
You are right that PR can be great - I'm a sucker for a good advert or sales pitch, but I never needed to be sold my royal family nor my future king's wife, I simple would have preferred it all to have developed more naturally.
You would have preferred the illusion of it being natural. If they did not have PR people in this day and age they would be eaten alive.
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  #195  
Old 02-21-2015, 10:02 PM
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You would have preferred the illusion of it being natural. If they did not have PR people in this day and age they would be eaten alive.
But with PR an illusion is created anyway isn't it? And with PR are high profile people not eaten alive anyway?!
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  #196  
Old 02-21-2015, 10:10 PM
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But with PR an illusion is created anyway isn't it? And with PR are high profile people not eaten alive anyway?!
They are, but with good PR people they can fight back.
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  #197  
Old 02-21-2015, 10:38 PM
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I did not say Bolland was OK. I was saying that the idea that they shouldn't have PR people, just old advisers, would not be preferable.
I am sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you were defending Bolland's actions.
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  #198  
Old 02-21-2015, 11:01 PM
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Unfortunately I have to say I agree. The hard part is getting a PR team that is schooled in 'ethics over spin' and understand's that they are dealing with a family, not a firm. That it is essential to preserve the family's sense of decency. For example, we over on the Swedish threads, are forever bemoaning the hopeless PR. It's enough to make you wince.

As to Charles, Camilla, William and Harry? On those very few occasions that they have actually participated in a one on one interview, one of Harry's stands out. He said something along the lines of "she makes our father happy, we love her to bits".

Harry did not look or sound tense, his speech and diction were animated and, most important of all, he could have just smiled and said "she makes our father happy and that's okay", but he didn't. Harry comes across as not nearly as tightly wound as William, which is not to say that he relaxes and enjoys the media, which makes his statement all the more telling.

So basically, all this "scandal", "exploitation", etc. is, to me, just so much media hype because, let's face it, a 'wicked stepmother' is so much more "newsworthy" than Charles and Camilla happily, if boringly, married and each with liked and likeable stepchildren.
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  #199  
Old 02-22-2015, 01:39 AM
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Unfortunately I have to say I agree. The hard part is getting a PR team that is schooled in 'ethics over spin' and understand's that they are dealing with a family, not a firm. That it is essential to preserve the family's sense of decency. For example, we over on the Swedish threads, are forever bemoaning the hopeless PR. It's enough to make you wince.

As to Charles, Camilla, William and Harry? On those very few occasions that they have actually participated in a one on one interview, one of Harry's stands out. He said something along the lines of "she makes our father happy, we love her to bits".

Harry did not look or sound tense, his speech and diction were animated and, most important of all, he could have just smiled and said "she makes our father happy and that's okay", but he didn't. Harry comes across as not nearly as tightly wound as William, which is not to say that he relaxes and enjoys the media, which makes his statement all the more telling.

So basically, all this "scandal", "exploitation", etc. is, to me, just so much media hype because, let's face it, a 'wicked stepmother' is so much more "newsworthy" than Charles and Camilla happily, if boringly, married and each with liked and likeable stepchildren.
William and Harry did what what was best for their father. They love him and want to see him happy. They knew that Camilla made him happy...so that's that. I have no doubt they would've done the same thing for their mother. I don't think any of it was easy for them though. In the end, William and Harry acted more like the adults more than members of the media.
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  #200  
Old 02-22-2015, 03:51 AM
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I agree, acting as the young men they were instead of flashing back to the rights and wrongs of yesteryear. That is pretty remarkable but perhaps understandable as the media never let up and they had their mother's side and their father's side, twisted, turned and distorted courtesy of the media, whilst they had actually lived it.

Whatever else we know or think we know, William and Harry do know, and have managed to grow into decent men of their generation and social circle. Albeit with a more than slightly jaundiced view of the media.
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