"Königskinder" (2007-2009) - ZDF Documentaries on Europe's Heirs

[Marengo]

. The lightness of their existence was almost unbearable (larded with Music for Millions).

Well Prince Hendrik did make his son sit on a horse again when Frederik fell of .

 

[UserDane]

Just something about his love for sports and the rest became more or less a sort of love story because there was not so much more than the two walking, the two on their wedding day, the two after the birth of the children. The lightness of their existence was almost unbearable (larded with Music for Millions).

Now I had to watch it - with my imperfect grasp of the German language. But I did understand that they touched upon - though not too deep I agree - on the struggles Frederik had as a young man about his position. May not seem a lot to others, but it was discussed in some length in his home country. But I do not agree with your all sports judgment.

... had Frederik chosen his future job when he was 18 or 20, he would probably be a Greenland explorer. Nice that they had included his love of Greenland.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

... had Frederik chosen his future job when he was 18 or 20, he would probably be a Greenland explorer. Nice that they had included his love of Greenland.

Yes, Fred is a tough cookie. He may come across as a couch potato from time to time but from a physical point of view he is one of the fittest crown prince or royal in general around.

 

[ricarda]

In the report about Maxima and Willem-Alexander an opponent of the monarchy said, that not Maxima and Willem-Alexander are social. They are social because a team of PR-persons decided that they must be social. I think it was good, that also opponents came to word. That they also show the controversy which exists in the Netherlands (the controversy between opponents and royalists).

In the report about Frederik and Mary they pointed out, that SHE self decided to be "social" and that SHE do so much for the integration of foreigners, and so on...

They actually didn't point out anything of that kind. That's your own personal interpretation.
They said that she was critizised for spending too much money and then started to engage herself socially (which is not true either - but that doesn't seem to hurt you.)
They said that her engagement with immigrants is important because the royal house should be the staging point for all members of society. They did not comment on whose idea it is or who decided what or how much Mary does for the integration of foreigners.

Henri_M
I'm a royalist indeed, but I'm standing with both feet on the ground. Where ZDF walked the middle lane in the cases of Willem-Alexander & Máxima and of Haakon & Mette-Marit, they left all objectivity at home in the case of Frederik & Mary. ...
In the Danish situation ZDF had not so much to tell except irrelevancies. The Queen is effectively almost totally a-political and there is not much to tell about the Crown Prince. Just something about his love for sports and the rest became more or less a sort of love story because there was not so much more than the two walking, the two on their wedding day, the two after the birth of the children. The lightness of their existence was almost unbearable (larded with Music for Millions).

I personally think it's you who leaves all objectivity at home when it comes to Frederik and Mary and when it comes to the importance of the Dutch monarchy.
Sorry but the leitmotiv of the documentary, titled Tulips and Tango, was NOT the "special place the Netherlands monarchy has in politics, government and administration and how difficult -but well prepared- it will be for the Prince of Orange to follow in the footsteps of his perfectionistic and demanding mother" - that was only a sub-theme, just as it was in the Danish case, and it was actually said that it will be difficult for Frederik to follow in his mother's and grandfather's and great-grandfather's footsteps (who were all very popular) and to keep the monarchy in touch with modern times.
It seems strange to me that you always have to point out (and exaggerate if you ask me) the political importance of the Dutch RF while at the same time minimizing the role of the Danish monarch.

The ZDF did not walk a middle lane, they were very positive towards all couples, celebrating their love for each other, painting everything quite pink. I would say "love conquers everything and heals every wound" was actually the leitmotiv of all documentaries (about couples). Moreover the docus were focused on the childhoods and pre-wedding-lives and love stories not on their lives afterwards.
In WA&Maxima's and Haakon&Mette-Marit's case they simply had to mention scandals/controversies (and silly remarks) which are of common knowledge. In Frederik&Mary's case there were no such scandals and controversies, perhaps that's why the docu about them seems to be more sugary. But they actually mentioned Mary's problems with the Danish language and Frederik's problems with his role. And they had a lot more relevant (sociological, psychological) things to say about Frederik than they had to say about Willem-Alexander. (No, it was not just about his love for sport.)

The only thing I agree on is the fact that there was no anti-monarchy-viewpoint. Why give it in the Swedish, Norwegian and Dutch case and not in the Danish, are there no anti-monarchists? But on the other hand there was no anti-monarchist in Felipe&Letizia's docu either.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I felt that they showed kind of an optimistic view on all couples, sometimes more sugary, sometimes less (like after sorting out all difficulties now everything is settled with a good forecast for the future) except for the spanish couple. I guess they needed an example for a country that is struggling to have more variety in the docu and Spain is the most suitable country for that with a weak monarchy that more or less depends on the current King who brought democracy and a crown princess whose role seems to contradict her nature personality.

 

[ricarda]

Obviously the political situation in Spain is problematic and Letizia is a more controversial figure than Mary, but that doesn't make the docu less sugary. No, in the end "love conquers everything" and Letizia has found her place in the hearts of the Spanish people.

But they cannot speak about problems when there are no problems.
That doesn't mean that ZDF was less objective towards the Danish couple.
The docus are based on the interviews they made.
And even Henrik Qvortrup who is quite critical about Frederik is positive about the monarchy and Mary.
So what is ZDF supposed to do?

 

[Larzen]

My main problem with the F and M docu was no the sugar candy style, they were all terrible sugar candy IMO.

I think the docu made it sound like fredeiks childhood was so terrible it could be compared to growing up as an orphan in a refeugee camp in Somalia, some persepctive would have been nice considering he grew up in a palaceAnd It portrays Henrik and Margrethe in a very unfortunate way, and I think it does not give very much credit to MArgrethe who had to become Queen at such a very young age.

But then theese docus were not really for royalwatchers but more for people who do not know so much about royals and I guess they have to try and create some drama in every episode, just to end with a happily ever after... or rather happily for now....

 

[ricarda]

You are exaggerating.
Queen Margrethe was 32, that's not so very young, is it?
She is portrayed as a very dedicated and popular queen but not so good mother (confirmed by herself).
I don't know if this is unfortunate for her or for Frederik.
But it's more about Frederik's problems with his father and the role he was born into.

And they make quite clear that he was raised in a palace, that's actually one motive of the story. He was raised in a palace but his childhood was strict and cold, she was raised in a normal house but her childhood was idyllic and warm. No comparisons with orphans in Somalian refugee camps.

But I agree on the drama and happy end. With a non-controversial lovestory and a stable monarchy they simply had to focus on Frederik's unhappy childhood to get some drama in. Otherwise it would have been even more boring than it already was (and that is MY main problem with the docu. )

 

[Larzen]

You are exaggerating.
Queen Margrethe was 32, that's not so very young, is it?
She is portrayed as a very dedicated and popular queen but not so good mother (confirmed by herself).
I don't know if this is unfortunate for her or for Frederik.
But it's more about Frederik's problems with his father and the role he was born into.

And they make quite clear that he was raised in a palace, that's actually one motive of the story. He was raised in a palace but his childhood was strict and cold, she was raised in a normal house but her childhood was idyllic and warm. No comparisons with orphans in Somalian refugee camps.

32 is IMO very young to become head of state, the etarnal articles in danish press an supported by comments from Frederik, on how his children should have a different upbringing than he got etc etc etc is IMO quite unfair to Margrethe to drag this up again and again, even if she has said it herself. Let by gones be by gones or keep it in the family, Victoria does it sometimes as well and I find it again not very symphatetic

The responsibility Margethe had when she was a young mother compared to that of what Frederik has today is IMO not comparable. Frederik is closing in on 40 and Is in my very personal and totaly biased oppinion not showing much statemanship, then his mother had already been Queen for 7 years, so yes I think she was very young when she became Queen, of course Queen EliZabeth was then extremely young

 

[ricarda]

Well, you can see it that way too: Margrethe got the opportunity to show her statemanship at the age of 32. She didn't have that "heir waiting for the throne, watched by the media"-dilemma. Obviously Frederik is able to fulfill his duties as a regent when his mother is out of the country and to convince a former minister like Mimi Jakobsen that he will be a great king. What is he supposed to do. Shoot his mother?

And Margrethe herself said she was no "little child's mother". That means she wasn't very much involved in her children's upbringing even before she became queen.

But I agree that Frederik should have kept it in the family. I don't really know what he actually has said (except for that remark directed to his father at the silver-wedding, which I always found totally inappropriate) and what the media made of it. But those ongoing articles make you indeed feel sorry for the Queen and Henrik - and actually put a lot of pressure on Frederik&Mary. They have to proof now they can do it better.

 

[Paty]

Obviously the political situation in Spain is problematic and Letizia is a more controversial figure than Mary,

The political situation in Spain ??????

Wich is the political situation in spain?

 

[ricarda]

I was referring to the docu about Felipe&Letizia.
There was more about politics and history and the current monarch in it than there was in the docus about the Norwegian, Danish and Dutch couples. A lot about Franco and the restoration of the monarchy and Juan Carlos saving the Spanish democracy (the Germans are fascinated by Juan Carlos). And the continuation of the monarchy seems more uncertain than in other countries. That's all I meant.

 

[Larzen]

I dont know but everytime there is aquestion why Letizia and Felipe do or do not do something we hear about the difficult political situation

Hi, Royal Darkness can you give us a summerize of Felipe and Letizia Docu?

Its difficult to give a complete summary but here are some points, it focuses mostly on the lives they led before they married IMO, the different upbringings etc the history of the Bourbons

Also I had some trouble when they put german on top of spanish, it was difficult to understand as Im not fluent in german, so Im sure there are some mistakes

***********************

Spain, the home of the Prince and the Princess of the people

***
The narrators says something like Letizia plays the role of the "little dutyful wife" but it is no in her nature to play this role, that it is a marriage in a golden cage and asks wether the love will be strong enough so that they together can live up to the expectations of the spanish people.

and then a well chosen "expert" alla Julio Iglesias:
this right royal experts says it is obious how in love the couple is, and how important Letizia is at the side of her tall husband

Letizia comes from a family with no royal bloodlines, but Felipe stands by the side of his commoner princess

the narrator says he was always a welcome guests, esp amongst the women, Felipe was considered the best catch of the european gotha and that he could have had them all, the Thurn and Taxis princesses the habsburg daughters, even one of spains most famous tennisplayer:

Ms Sanchez-Vicario swoons over Felipe and says he is so tall and handsome, everyone thought heir Prince was so good looking and were in "love" with him. and She old him once, when she had got to know him, that she was in love with him when she was young. He was the dream of every woman

the the narrator says Felipe is supposed to have had 30 girlfirends/affairs, but the women who caught his heart would not be a Princess but the most beautiful face on the evening news.

The present Royal couple has brought the democraty back to spain

And then they do some funny/scary morphing of Felipes face into Felipe V, the first Bourbon on the spanish throne

and of Letizias face into Maria des los Mercedes, the first spanish born woman at the side of the spanish King, Letizia will be the second spanish born Queen. all other Princesses came from the forreign royal families.

also Letizia and Felipe must win the hearts of the Spaniards


Letizias former boss says he thinks the futer will be challenging for them, it is a difficult role where you just wait for your father to die so you can do the job you have been training for. He also says something like it will be difficult to fill their time with something worthwhile - at one point they will have granted 10 milllion spaniards an audience and wont know what else to do, just like Prince Charles who has become a carricature of himself, one becomes extravagant with time

then some descriptions of felipe, a man wihtout a scandal, a Prince who do not have any polo horses to fall of, A man with no mind of his own (like puppet I think they mean, not sure) as interesting a luke warm sangria, a mummys boy. But for the Press Letizia is the real poblem. A woman who wont be submissive enough for the role, a woman who wears to short skirts, who gestures to much, and who worse of allruins her fertility with her high stilettos, she is so thin, the diagnosis; anorexia.

Carolina of Waldburg says something like Letizia is always under immense scrutiny, what is she wearing, every gestures is watched, is she happy or sad, laughing or crying. It requires much disipline

Then something about Franco, Felipes grandmother thinks that the birth of Felipe helps the chances for the Bourbon to come back on the thrones

Felipe liked to tell jokes and the spaniards loves good jokes, says his biographer, once he should have told this joke about his father: JC went to a resturant and said to the waitor: Give me something I have not had before
and then the waitor says; have some brain then

Princess Sofia:
- I want to be there when the children comes home from school
- I bring them to school and pick them up when they are finnished
- I find that close contact with the parents are very important for the kids


About Letis childhood, she grew up with her two younger sisters, her aunt? says she was a very head strong girl, she wanted to do everything, and try again until she managed. She was a perfectionist already then.

She always knew what she wanted to do and would do better than everyone else, be a presenter at the radio.

Franco dies, Juan Carlos is back on the throne, and Felipe tries to pull his chair over to his mother during the ceremony, but a servant pulls it back towards his sisters. Felipe is now the new Heir

his most important lesson in politic he got during the coup- felipe is in evening school, the King sent a car to pick him at once, the situation was unsure, he had to be with the King in the Zarzuela the whole time, in the center of the events. JC told his son that he had to earn the crown everyday. After the coup the royal house was more popular than ever.

Letiza used to be a ballet dancer, for 10 years, her teacher tells: All the girls were fans of the prince and we had a competeion on who would write Felipe the best letter, Letizia won, and got a signed photo back from the prince, that is foresight, no?

Sofia decided that Felipe would go to Lakefield.
The Queens biographer Pilar Urbano says Felipe was a spoilt child and that the time in Canada was very difficult for him, but this helped him later when he went into the military academy in zaragosa.

We can hear Letizias first broadcast in the radio.

she fell in love and was married to her litterature teacher for a short time.
And a student video of Letizia in Mexico, I did not get what she was saying, sounds like a presentation of herself

And then about the painter Waldo Saavedra who fell head over heels with her, he said she was like an angel. his painting would later create a scandal, never before had there been a Queen to be that had shown her breasts. Later he said he was just "inspired ", that she only showed her face, the narrator finds it a very inventive explenation

Felipe in Georgetown. Pavlos sais they lived a normal life there, they shared a house and met women, in Washington noone recognised him, even if he is so tall, he is hard to miss.

Pilar Urbano: Queen Sofia was not amused with her sons women, he had many women, really many.

Carolina of Waldburg was considered the perfect queen, catholic, nobel and beautful. The press followed her everywhere.

she says. I rented a house with some friends in Madrid then we found out there were papparazzi in the house across the streets, you really cannot belive it. It was very difficult to live like that, with closed drapes.

Then about Eva Sannum, basicall a no-go a protestant model with divorced parents, a scandal

José Apezarena (felipes biographer) says it was difficult for Felipe to break up with her but he knew he could not marry against the will of the spaniards

the narrator says it was a bitter break up for the Prince, Felipe was determind this would not happen again.

Felipe should have noticed LEtizia on TV and arranged a meeting (just like TV-shop ey) the relationship had to be discreet, Letizia wanted it like that, she thought it could cost her career and her credibility.

José Apezarena says he did not find Letizia the right choice for Queen of Spain

- I would have not chosen Letizia. She really did not have the right qualifications. Her job, her family, her lack of political education.
-No, I would have not chosen her, I wanted someone like Sofia. But it was the Prince who chose her.”

Felipe had decide to marry him, when the King and queen thought of a profile for a daughter in law, than Im sure they did not think of someone like Letizia
-He insisted on marrying Letizia.
-He just introduced her to his parents. The King took the news well, Queen Sofia needed a more time.

A friend of Leti finds the critism of her "Let me finish" comment was stupid, it was lovingly ment she says.

After the terror in MAdrid, in Almudena she conforts the grieving, the Spaniards sees a woman with warmth and compassion.

LAter she would self be in tragedy her favourite sister comitted suicide with an overdose of painkillers. Letizia hurries to the appartment, she sneaks in unnoticed to the press.

Pilar Urbano says she was certain Letizia would bring a fresh wind into the the dusty bourbon dynasty, because she knew how the real world worked, she had stood in line for grocerys and lived in a small appartment

22 may 2004 the first wedding of a spanish heir in 100 yearrs takes place, 20 million Euros is the prize-tag. many spaniards considered the rain a bad omen, but notFelipe. infront of 1400 guests Felipe married the princes of the people. The kiss was as cold coffe.

Pavlos says tha yes it was grand but also intimate moments during the banquet. a wonderful show.

And a grain of gold from Mr Iglesias to finnish it of: Love is universall
More beautiful one cant say it, Good luck Felipe and Letizia

The end with fireworks and fanfares

 

[ricarda]

Its difficult to give a complete summary but here are some points, it focuses mostly on the lives they led before they married IMO, the different upbringings etc the history of the Bourbons

Also I had some trouble when they put german on top of spanish, it was difficult to understand as Im not fluent in german, so Im sure there are some mistakes

***********************

Wow, I am impressed, that must have been a lot of work.
And you got most of it right, just a few corrections.

then some descriptions of felipe, a man wihtout a scandal, a Prince who do not have any polo horses to fall of, A man with no mind of his own (like puppet I think they mean, not sure) as interesting a luke warm sangria, a mummys boy. But for the Press Letizia is the real poblem. A woman who wont be submissive enough for the role, a woman who wears to short skirts, who gestures to much, and who worse of allruins her fertility with her high stilettos, she is so thin, the diagnosis; anorexia.

This is not meant as a description, it's a summary of what is said about them by the media, given in a sympathetic tone.

And a student video of Letizia in Mexico, I did not get what she was saying, sounds like a presentation of herself

No, it was taken in Spain and she says that she will go to Mexico to study and that there are many machos in Mexico. She has been warned to talk to the police, they are the worst.

Felipe should have noticed LEtizia on TV and arranged a meeting

They say Felipe was working late at night all alone in his office and saw Letizia on TV, which means: also working. This is spoken in an ironic tone. My guess is because there were so many different versions of how they met, in most of them they were working, whereas a famous German TV-star who was the girl-friend of a prince for several years claims that they met one evening through Letizia's CNN-ex-boyfriend who was also a friend of Felipe.

José Apezarena says he did not find Letizia the right choice for Queen of Spain

-No, I would have not chosen her, I wanted someone like Sofia. But it was the Prince who chose her.”

No, he says: I feel like Sofia. (Before that he said that it took Sophia longer to accept Felipe's choice than Juan Carlos.)

LAter she would self be in tragedy her favourite sister comitted suicide with an overdose of painkillers. Letizia hurries to the appartment, she sneaks in unnoticed to the press.

Yes, and they say her showing emotions at her sister's funeral won her a place in the Spanish people's hearts. Oh, dear.

The kiss was as cold coffe.

Here they are quoting the press again, in a critical tone towards the press.

And a grain of gold from Mr Iglesias to finnish it of: Love is universall
More beautiful one cant say it, Good luck Felipe and Letizia

The end with fireworks and fanfares

Yes, that was IMO the most sugary ending of all sugary endings - thanks to Julio Iglesias. I wonder, why nobody complained about that.

 

[Paty]

I was referring to the docu about Felipe&Letizia.
There was more about politics and history and the current monarch in it than there was in the docus about the Norwegian, Danish and Dutch couples. A lot about Franco and the restoration of the monarchy and Juan Carlos saving the Spanish democracy (the Germans are fascinated by Juan Carlos). And the continuation of the monarchy seems more uncertain than in other countries. That's all I meant.

Thanks Ricarda!!

I think that for everybody can understand the actual political situation in Spain is necesary to talk about Franco, and the good service of King Juan Carlos to Spainand to the spaniards after Franco´s pased away.

 

[Paty]

I dont know but everytime there is aquestion why Letizia and Felipe do or do not do something we hear about the difficult political situation



Its difficult to give a complete summary but here are some points, it focuses mostly on the lives they led before they married IMO, the different upbringings etc the history of the Bourbons

Also I had some trouble when they put german on top of spanish, it was difficult to understand as Im not fluent in german, so Im sure there are some mistakes

***********************

Spain, the home of the Prince and the Princess of the people

***
The narrators says something like Letizia plays the role of the "little dutyful wife" but it is no in her nature to play this role, that it is a marriage in a golden cage and asks wether the love will be strong enough so that they together can live up to the expectations of the spanish people.

and then a well chosen "expert" alla Julio Iglesias:
this right royal experts says it is obious how in love the couple is, and how important Letizia is at the side of her tall husband

Letizia comes from a family with no royal bloodlines, but Felipe stands by the side of his commoner princess

the narrator says he was always a welcome guests, esp amongst the women, Felipe was considered the best catch of the european gotha and that he could have had them all, the Thurn and Taxis princesses the habsburg daughters, even one of spains most famous tennisplayer:

Ms Sanchez-Vicario swoons over Felipe and says he is so tall and handsome, everyone thought heir Prince was so good looking and were in "love" with him. and She old him once, when she had got to know him, that she was in love with him when she was young. He was the dream of every woman

the the narrator says Felipe is supposed to have had 30 girlfirends/affairs, but the women who caught his heart would not be a Princess but the most beautiful face on the evening news.

The present Royal couple has brought the democraty back to spain

And then they do some funny/scary morphing of Felipes face into Felipe V, the first Bourbon on the spanish throne

and of Letizias face into Maria des los Mercedes, the first spanish born woman at the side of the spanish King, Letizia will be the second spanish born Queen. all other Princesses came from the forreign royal families.

also Letizia and Felipe must win the hearts of the Spaniards


Letizias former boss says he thinks the futer will be challenging for them, it is a difficult role where you just wait for your father to die so you can do the job you have been training for. He also says something like it will be difficult to fill their time with something worthwhile - at one point they will have granted 10 milllion spaniards an audience and wont know what else to do, just like Prince Charles who has become a carricature of himself, one becomes extravagant with time

then some descriptions of felipe, a man wihtout a scandal, a Prince who do not have any polo horses to fall of, A man with no mind of his own (like puppet I think they mean, not sure) as interesting a luke warm sangria, a mummys boy. But for the Press Letizia is the real poblem. A woman who wont be submissive enough for the role, a woman who wears to short skirts, who gestures to much, and who worse of allruins her fertility with her high stilettos, she is so thin, the diagnosis; anorexia.

Carolina of Waldburg says something like Letizia is always under immense scrutiny, what is she wearing, every gestures is watched, is she happy or sad, laughing or crying. It requires much disipline

Then something about Franco, Felipes grandmother thinks that the birth of Felipe helps the chances for the Bourbon to come back on the thrones

Felipe liked to tell jokes and the spaniards loves good jokes, says his biographer, once he should have told this joke about his father: JC went to a resturant and said to the waitor: Give me something I have not had before
and then the waitor says; have some brain then

Princess Sofia:
- I want to be there when the children comes home from school
- I bring them to school and pick them up when they are finnished
- I find that close contact with the parents are very important for the kids


About Letis childhood, she grew up with her two younger sisters, her aunt? says she was a very head strong girl, she wanted to do everything, and try again until she managed. She was a perfectionist already then.

She always knew what she wanted to do and would do better than everyone else, be a presenter at the radio.

Franco dies, Juan Carlos is back on the throne, and Felipe tries to pull his chair over to his mother during the ceremony, but a servant pulls it back towards his sisters. Felipe is now the new Heir

his most important lesson in politic he got during the coup- felipe is in evening school, the King sent a car to pick him at once, the situation was unsure, he had to be with the King in the Zarzuela the whole time, in the center of the events. JC told his son that he had to earn the crown everyday. After the coup the royal house was more popular than ever.

Letiza used to be a ballet dancer, for 10 years, her teacher tells: All the girls were fans of the prince and we had a competeion on who would write Felipe the best letter, Letizia won, and got a signed photo back from the prince, that is foresight, no?

Sofia decided that Felipe would go to Lakefield.
The Queens biographer Pilar Urbano says Felipe was a spoilt child and that the time in Canada was very difficult for him, but this helped him later when he went into the military academy in zaragosa.

We can hear Letizias first broadcast in the radio.

she fell in love and was married to her litterature teacher for a short time.
And a student video of Letizia in Mexico, I did not get what she was saying, sounds like a presentation of herself

And then about the painter Waldo Saavedra who fell head over heels with her, he said she was like an angel. his painting would later create a scandal, never before had there been a Queen to be that had shown her breasts. Later he said he was just "inspired ", that she only showed her face, the narrator finds it a very inventive explenation

Felipe in Georgetown. Pavlos sais they lived a normal life there, they shared a house and met women, in Washington noone recognised him, even if he is so tall, he is hard to miss.

Pilar Urbano: Queen Sofia was not amused with her sons women, he had many women, really many.

Carolina of Waldburg was considered the perfect queen, catholic, nobel and beautful. The press followed her everywhere.

she says. I rented a house with some friends in Madrid then we found out there were papparazzi in the house across the streets, you really cannot belive it. It was very difficult to live like that, with closed drapes.

Then about Eva Sannum, basicall a no-go a protestant model with divorced parents, a scandal

José Apezarena (felipes biographer) says it was difficult for Felipe to break up with her but he knew he could not marry against the will of the spaniards

the narrator says it was a bitter break up for the Prince, Felipe was determind this would not happen again.

Felipe should have noticed LEtizia on TV and arranged a meeting (just like TV-shop ey) the relationship had to be discreet, Letizia wanted it like that, she thought it could cost her career and her credibility.

José Apezarena says he did not find Letizia the right choice for Queen of Spain

- I would have not chosen Letizia. She really did not have the right qualifications. Her job, her family, her lack of political education.
-No, I would have not chosen her, I wanted someone like Sofia. But it was the Prince who chose her.”

Felipe had decide to marry him, when the King and queen thought of a profile for a daughter in law, than Im sure they did not think of someone like Letizia
-He insisted on marrying Letizia.
-He just introduced her to his parents. The King took the news well, Queen Sofia needed a more time.

A friend of Leti finds the critism of her "Let me finish" comment was stupid, it was lovingly ment she says.

After the terror in MAdrid, in Almudena she conforts the grieving, the Spaniards sees a woman with warmth and compassion.

LAter she would self be in tragedy her favourite sister comitted suicide with an overdose of painkillers. Letizia hurries to the appartment, she sneaks in unnoticed to the press.

Pilar Urbano says she was certain Letizia would bring a fresh wind into the the dusty bourbon dynasty, because she knew how the real world worked, she had stood in line for grocerys and lived in a small appartment

22 may 2004 the first wedding of a spanish heir in 100 yearrs takes place, 20 million Euros is the prize-tag. many spaniards considered the rain a bad omen, but notFelipe. infront of 1400 guests Felipe married the princes of the people. The kiss was as cold coffe.

Pavlos says tha yes it was grand but also intimate moments during the banquet. a wonderful show.

And a grain of gold from Mr Iglesias to finnish it of: Love is universall
More beautiful one cant say it, Good luck Felipe and Letizia

The end with fireworks and fanfares

Larzen,

I haven´t words for your "translation of Docu" Thanks you very much, i apreciate very, very, much your work.

Thank you

 

[lula]

Ricarda, on how they were known Felipe and Letizia only there is a version, not which is another version to that you have listened. I do not know if it will be different of these histories of the German yellow press.

The Princes knew themselves in a private dinner offered by a journalist, to this dinner the Prince was invited, something that the rest of guests did not know. The Prince comes sometimes to lunchs with journalists to speak about today's news. One of the companions of Letizia's work, invited her to go with him because that day his wife could not go. Letizia was and there they were known. So much the owner of the house who was organizing the dinner as the companion of work of Letizia they have told the history.

 

[Royal Darkness]

They actually didn't point out anything of that kind. That's your own personal interpretation.
[...]
The only thing I agree on is the fact that there was no anti-monarchy-viewpoint. Why give it in the Swedish, Norwegian and Dutch case and not in the Danish, are there no anti-monarchists? But on the other hand there was no anti-monarchist in Felipe&Letizia's docu either.

You are right. I read it between the lines.

 

[johann]

What a heated and extended discussion about a fluffy German TV serial, which was meant to stuff the summer doldrums (silly season, Sommerloch you know). It´s not that Königskinder claims to be the critical bible of royalty watching. And I even doubt Königskinder has any other purpose/claim than keeping German grannies entertained.
I can assure you: In Germany royalty/monarchy has NO other relevance than providing some old school glamour (=bling bling, nice dresses, big fat weddings, sweet babies and a lil bit of drama - that´s it), it does not go beyond yellow press level – and this is what the ZDF serial reflects. And the “critical” TV report you all cry for would not stick to Königskinder, to Maxima´s charms or to Mary´s looong way to her prince, but focus on the relevance of monarchies in the 21st century and that would be even more hurtful for some of you.

Plus, I seriously doubt that Guido Knopp, the oh so glorious researcher, was very much involved in the making of Königskinder. Guido Knopp is not the highly respected historian (don´t get fooled by the title Prof.), that guy and his historytainment became a laughing stock amongst historians and I´m still waiting for a Knopp serial about Hitler´s pets, Hitler´s cars, Hitler´s hairdresser, etc. pp. I guess he formed some “research” teams, commissioned 6 episodes and then lay back and focussed on something else. And Team Norway probably was a bit more critical than Team Denmark, that explains the different approach/quality. The Fred/Mary team fell for the Danish dream couple idea and the oh so perfect princess, while nobody fell for Naruhito/Masako or Philippe/Mathilde. So what? the world will not stop turning around. If one wants to see more balanced reports: Rolf Seelmann-Eggebert (RSE), commander of the Order of the British Empire btw, still is the undisputed godfather of royalty watching. And Guido Knopp and his team will most likely never be fit to hold a candle to RSE. But well, Knopp is known for exploiting topics to the utmost, so I fear more of this stuff will follow. For those who get too emotionally involved, nobody threatens you to watch it. So before your tooth hurt or an insulin shock is knocking at the door - just switch off.

 

[johann]

Well, you can see it that way too: Margrethe got the opportunity to show her statemanship at the age of 32. She didn't have that "heir waiting for the throne, watched by the media"-dilemma. Obviously Frederik is able to fulfill his duties as a regent when his mother is out of the country and to convince a former minister like Mimi Jakobsen that he will be a great king. What is he supposed to do. Shoot his mother?

Well, I agree with Larzen on this point. To me Frederick does not come across as someone who is eager to show his statesmanship anytime soon, more like someone who lights candles to assure mommy will be able to go on for many years.

 

[ricarda]

And how did Margrethe come across when her father was still alive?
Eager to show her statemanship? Passionately involved with her social patronages? Passionately involved in the upbringing of her children?

In my humble opinion she didn't show and do more than her son and in some respects she showed and did less, she just hadn't to wait that long for the throne.
But she turned out as a great queen as soon as she was on the throne (being the first female monarch after 600 years surely helped) and I have the feeling so will her son when his time will come.


But I agree with your description of the docu-serie. Germans are interested in royals but they don't take them really seriously. Unlike some members on this board they see royals as decorative and perhaps socially but not politically important (with the exception of Juan Carlos and the monarchs during World War II). And that shows in the docus. So they are really not to be taken too seriously. But I guess as a member of a royal messageboard you tend to blow all royal things out of proportion.

 

[Stefanie]

Strange that they ended the Masako-Doku shortly before the little boy of her sister-in-law was born. But in the beginning of the Doku they always again focused on the "giggeling and obviously against-Masako" role of her and showed the press meeting where she announced her pregnancy. That´s another hint that this Doku is made just a little sloppy and careless and only interesting for yellow-press-readers. I couldn´t find anything new or even interesting in one of the Doku´s.
The worse is that they always find all the new crown-princesses just wonderful (in general view) no matter whether they are three times divorced or have three children out of wedlock. If this would happen they´d consider it even better and up-to-date!

 

[Marengo]

But I guess as a member of a royal messageboard you tend to blow all royal things out of proportion.

What is exactly blown out of proportion? Saying that you are disappointed by the sugar-ness of the documenteries isn´t blowing things out of proportion IMHO, if that is what you meant. Neither is the fact that for many people monarchies are relevant. Perhaps not for Germans but a recent survey in my own country for example shows that the Dutch do think the monarchy is an important institute that we should treasure. I assume that more countries, esp. exsisting monarchies will have surveys with a simular outcome.

 

[ricarda]

No, the disappointedness is not what I meant.
I meant that for members of a royal messageboard royals are obviously more important than for a lot of other people. We are fans or at least interested and that's why we "discuss" royal things which a lot of people don't even notice. For example, I know Dutch people who don't give a damn about their royal house and I know a lot of people in my own country (Austria) who don't even know the names of the current cp couples, much less their workload/patronages.
And IMHO certain members tend to overrate the political importance of certain royal houses while at the same time underrating the importance of other royal houses.

 

[Marengo]

Ah, that sounds rather reasonable . But still I have to make a sidemark. I think locals (in any monarchy) know much better what is going on, what the political power etc. of their royal family is than foreigners. Foreigners usually only tend to see pictures of a happy couple on a balcony, in a carriage etc. while we get more serious articles in newspapers and political magazines.

It seems people are more interested in the sugary side, also here. One picture of Leonor in Mallorca will get a zillion responses while a post about Belgian King Albert II breaking off his holidays to mediate between the parties that have to form a gouverment doesn´t get any attention at all. Now the latter shows the political relevance even in this time, but not many are interested (on this forum, in Belgium the news is much more important of course). That people are more interested in the sugary side is ok, but that doesn´t mean that the political relevance isn´t there.

 

[ysbel]

I didn't see the program about Felipe and Letizia but I would say the other programs were sugar-y. They reminded me of a children's program here in the States that takes current events and dumbs them down so that children can understand what's going on in the news. Its fine for 12 year olds; a little annoying for adults.

 

[johann]

Ah, that sounds rather reasonable . But still I have to make a sidemark. I think locals (in any monarchy) know much better what is going on, what the political power etc. of their royal family is than foreigners. Foreigners usually only tend to see pictures of a happy couple on a balcony, in a carriage etc. while we get more serious articles in newspapers and political magazines.

It seems people are more interested in the sugary side, also here. One picture of Leonor in Mallorca will get a zillion responses while a post about Belgian King Albert II breaking off his holidays to mediate between the parties that have to form a gouverment doesn´t get any attention at all. Now the latter shows the political relevance even in this time, but not many are interested (on this forum, in Belgium the news is much more important of course). That people are more interested in the sugary side is ok, but that doesn´t mean that the political relevance isn´t there.

I disagree with you – at least with the general way you expressed your opinion. If one is interested in a country, it´s history, culture and political system it is no problem at all to get access to serious newspaper articles etc. from the country in question. One just has to take the effort. And as you came up with Belgium: there are messageboards where “foreigners” show more knowledge and rationality than at least 75% of the Belgian posters at the “Het Laatste Nieuws” forum for example. And sometimes the perspective from abroad also results in a more neutral view on certain aspects/occurrences. That Beatrix´s “De Groene Draeck” is maintained by the army f. e. would have deserved a more extended and critical discussion IMO. This discussion was not carried on here, not even or may I say especially not by Dutch posters. And that nobody is interested in discussing King Albert´s political role during the political crisis in Belgium these days also has to do with the fact that there are just a few people who really feel responsible for the BeRF forum. Just writing down that Albert interrupted his holiday to mediate between the parties is maybe too little effort to stimulate a discussion. Plus many of the oh´s and ah´s about Leonor´s pretty curls and whatnot are written down by Spanish TRF members. So IMVHO it´s unfair to say that royalty watchers from abroad are most of all interested in the sugary side and have no insight. And IMO ricarda is not wrong at all when she senses prejudice (I would even call it chauvinism) in the replies of certain TRF posters.

 

[Marengo]

Well, has been a source of extensive moderating discussions to get more activity in the Belgian part of these forums, I personally have tried many things to get more replies there (still trying), but without much succes. In the end if our posters are not that interested there isn't much we can do, we can not force people to post there.

--

My point about ´locals´ is that it is easier for a local to be well-informed etc. and hence they usually are. I don´t get the ins and outs about the Belgian formation for example in my Dutch newspapers. I wonder if they are mentioned at all in US newspapers. Likewise I would be surpirsed if any news about the costs of the ´Groene Draeck´ would appear in a foreign newspaper, hence it is more difficult for foreigners to be informed about that. Only a few will know, while almost all Dutch people are aware of the publicity that it caused here.

--

The oh-and ah-remarks didn´t relate to foreigners or not foreigners, as you can read when you re-read my post. It is just an observation that more posters are interested in children, dresses, tiara´s etc etc. than the political relevance of a monarchy. There is nothing wrong with that of course, nothing at all, just an observation.

--

If you or any other poster feel that any poster is showing chauvinisim you can easily prove him/her wrong with just telling the facts.

 

[Henri M.]

Unlike some members on this board they see royals as decorative and perhaps socially but not politically important (with the exception of Juan Carlos and the monarchs during World War II).

I can assure you that, constitutionally, the political position of the monarch in the fragmented Spanish State-organization is almost non-existant in terms of political influence. That King Juan Carlos has influence is simply thanks to his long Reign and his positioning in the transformation period 1975-1985 in which Spain began its post-Franco era, left its isolation by joining the EU and opted for democracy and emancipation.

Constitutionally the Queen of the Netherlands (unlike her other colleagues herself an integral part of the Government and also the formal president of the Council of State, which is not only the highest Court of Administration but also the unavoidable institution in the legislative process) has a more outspoken political profile. She is also not 'neutral' between Government and Opposition like in other countries: she is IN the Government.

The King of the Belgians is also formally more infuential than his Spanish colleague. In the divided country he tends to remain a-political, but these days showed the King stepping into the complicated formation of a new Belgian Government, with own initiatives and talks to revive the stuttering process.

The so-called 'Margarita-affair' in the Netherlands (2002-2004) showed the shocking informal influence of the Queen in the machinery of state. It showed that the highest civil servants, military, police and tax services did not hesistate any moment to fulfill wishes from the Palace, even without informing the politically responsible minister.... I would not underestimate Queen Beatrix' influence.

I know that this board tends to have a perpetuum mobile of hairdo, shoes and gowns, but in the meantime it not only are people of flesh and blood but for sure also people with considerable influence. But I agree that the German TV did nothing with it. Rolf Seelmann-Eggebert has an eye for the formal role of the Royal Houses, but indeed this series Königskinder simply was ultralight non-relevant summer-stuffing.

 

[ysbel]

I am a foreigner and I consider myself knowledgeable about the British monarchy but the other monarchies I would say no.

That is not due to lack of interest but lack of understanding the native languages of the countries. For the British monarchies, I can read first hand accounts of the participants in a situation in their native language. For the other monarchies of Sweden, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, and Denmark, I have to go by second-hand translated accounts of what was said and I've found that the material that is translated into English about these monarchies is less than half of the material that is written in the native language. That is a real barrier to understanding what really is going on in a country regarding its monarchy.

I was disappointed in the lack of substance of the Königskinder program because I do speak German fluently and I was hoping for an informative series. There were some high points such as the interview with the Nobel prize winner about Victoria's future role with the Nobel prizes but other than that, I was disappointed.

Perhaps the Germans like myself are foreigners to a monarchial system of government and although I don't view the monarchies as great fairytales, I think that in the absence of understanding how a monarchy works as a systerm of government which is harder to understand when one is living outside a monarchy, the tendency is to view the monarchies as a source of fairytales and beautiful princesses.