"Diana vs The Queen" (2014) - PBS Documentary


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Diana Vs. The Queen: October 23rd 2014-8pm-

DIANA VS THE QUEEN charts the troubled relationship between Elizabeth, Queen of England and Diana, Queen of Hearts; one remote and pragmatic, the other emotional and insecure. This revealing documentary charts the two women's relationship from its very beginnings, through the royal wedding to Diana's emergence as a global superstar. The story ends in the final showdown over Diana's funeral. TVPG

PBS: Public Broadcasting Service
 
Diana Vs. The Queen: October 23rd 2014-8pm-

DIANA VS THE QUEEN charts the troubled relationship between Elizabeth, Queen of England and Diana, Queen of Hearts; one remote and pragmatic, the other emotional and insecure. This revealing documentary charts the two women's relationship from its very beginnings, through the royal wedding to Diana's emergence as a global superstar. The story ends in the final showdown over Diana's funeral. TVPG

PBS: Public Broadcasting Service
Queen Elizabeth remote and pragmatic? I'd go for pragmatic, a woman in her position couldn't be anything else. But remote?

Certainly not to Diana who had grown up taking tea with members of the royal family, the Queen Mother and the Queen.

But hey, the title says it all;

DIANA VS THE QUEEN.

The Queen of England vs Queen of Hearts.

And last but by no means least and my personal favourite;

Ends in the final showdown over Diana's funeral? Via Ouija board I guess.

Who writes this drivel?
 
DRIVEL is the right word MARG. I didn't bother to check my PBS listing because I've no intention or desire to watch this silliness.
 
I just saw the listing and thought it would be interesting to post it. Could be the same old crazy stuff that we've seen and heard before.
 
It aired last night at 8pm in Chicago. It will probably be rebroadcast this afternoon or this weekend.

I decided not to watch.

It says a lot about the quality of the production, if the program decided the very beginning of the Queen's and Diana relationship started from the moment of Diana’s wedding rather than from when the two women actually met.

Did the Queen ignore Diana all the years she visited Sandringham while living at Park House?
Did the Queen ignore Diana throughout her relationship with Charles prior to their marriage?
Did the Queen ignore Diana throughout her engagement with Charles even though Diana was living under the same roof?

If the Queen ignored Diana for decades prior to her marrying into the royal family, shouldn’t this be the real story?
 
This apparently first aired in March and it features some of Diana’s supporters giving their version of events. It has Christopher Wilson from the Daily Mail, Patrick Jephson etc.
 
Just watched it online and, yeah, it was pretty much a bunch of crapola. Yes, there were some hard times but the people in the program made things sound very dramatic. A great deal of the drama was drummed up by the press and other tabloids.
 
A lot has happened and much has been invented. But I think that the Queen liked Diana and I think Diana also liked the Queen.
It is normal that the Queen didn't like some things that Diana did.
 
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The Queen hasn't the common touch such as The Queen Mother, Diana and Kate. Her Majesty is shy and careful in public, but she isn't remote. She's a very likeable person, with many good qualities.

Long Live The Queen, the greatest asset the Monarchy and the Commonwealth will ever have.
 
So I've been looking for noise to listen to through work and I came across this title. Can anyone provide more info on it? Is it worth watching? I hate docs that give a skewed view of events whether it is St Diana vs Adolf Charles or Wonderful Benevolent Queen vs Psycho Manipulative Diana.
From what I have read E2 took Diana's side and defended her up to the Panorama interview.
 
So I've been looking for noise to listen to through work and I came across this title. Can anyone provide more info on it? Is it worth watching? I hate docs that give a skewed view of events whether it is St Diana vs Adolf Charles or Wonderful Benevolent Queen vs Psycho Manipulative Diana.
From what I have read E2 took Diana's side and defended her up to the Panorama interview.

I thought the documentary would be interesting, but it pretty much included the same old stale stuff that we've heard over and over again for years. Nothing new or shocking.

From what I gather in listening to those who were/are close to Diana and The Queen, they loved and respected each other very much. Of course, there were some very painful and difficult times in their relationship, but their relationship remained good until the end.
 
Oh dear, it's awful to watch. :sad: Just awful. Camilla-Camilla-Camilla. All woven through. It's Diana's spin and her 'friends' spinning it all yet again for another go-round. It's using 'facts' that we know were never 'facts' to begin with. Where to begin? I'm at a loss.

BTW I am again confronted with the images of the young Diana and stymied as to why she so captivated everyone. I will never understand it. There is nothing compelling regarding who I see in the video footage. I'm sure one had to have been there, and in a way I was, of course, but she never seemed interesting to me when I saw her in pictures when I was a little girl. Even now what I see is someone very puzzling and self-absorbed. I know a great deal more about her now, of course, so I understand why she was uncomfortable to watch. But that's hindsight.

Anyway, if one wants a rundown on the Diana Mythos, this is the 50 minutes you need to carve out of your life to watch. It's all there.
 
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:previous: I was fortunate enough to meet Charles and Diana when they toured NZ. One thing that really struck me was how amazing Diana was. Having seen the TV, watched the Wedding, loathed her dress, seen copious quantities of magazines with her face on the cover, if I thought much about her it was just that I thought her a pretty sort of English rose. But the reality was quite breathtaking.

Charles was walking behind her looking at her in sheer adoration and, to be honest, the men present seemed utterly riveted by her, the women not so much. She was one of those women that walk into a room and everyone stops talking. She was sheer charisma, and in those early days I doubt even she was even aware of it.

To this day, I have never seen a photo of her that came anywhere near doing her justice. That is not to say they weren't perfect images of her, they were, but they were one dimensional. Without her presence and energy, she would have been just another pretty face.

The media snapped what they saw and sold her as a fairytale princess. A cynical world ate it up. Magic!
 
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More claptrap for the absurdly credulous American public... [the one that a has a majority believing they have been abducted by aliens, and that evolution is a fantasy]. No doubt many millions of half-wits will lap it up !
 
I was fortunate enough to meet Charles and Diana when they toured NZ. One thing that really struck me was how amazing Diana was. Having seen the TV, watched the Wedding, loathed her dress, seen copious quantities of magazines with her face on the cover, if I thought much about her it was just that I thought her a pretty sort of English rose. But the reality was quite breathtaking.

Charles was walking behind her looking at her in sheer adoration and, to be honest, the men present seemed utterly riveted by her, the women not so much. She was one of those women that walk into a room and everyone stops talking. She was sheer charisma, and in those early days I doubt even she was even aware of it.

By the time I was a teenager I certainly saw the glamor she exuded. She dressed exceedingly well but there were so many reasons to find her unpleasant to watch. Some of those reasons come up in the television show, in fact. In the second half of the show they actually do show video of her sly looks, her smugness, her self-absorbed focus on her effect. (Some of the clips are chilling imo, especially the one they show just after the Morton book came out. Ouch! Nasty.) She was always calculating. It's there in the video. That is my teenage self speaking. :rolleyes:

BTW the video focusses exclusively on Charles' 'betrayal'. Never once is it referenced that Diana was effectively 'sleeping around' herself from nearly the get-go of the marriage (3 to 5 years into a marriage is to me 'from the get-go'). The video seems to be peddling a very sanitized version of Diana. It's unclear what the purpose of the video really is, in fact. It is certainly no Diana I can make out from all that we know about her. :ermm:

But in regards what you are saying above, Marg, regarding Diana's charisma. I have read 'The Housekeeper's Diary', published in the mid-90's. Mrs Barry wrote the book to counter Diana's contention (at the time) that Charles wasn't a hands-on parent, nor a good parent. She wrote the book to set the record straight about Charles' parenting (very laudable) but there are a couple of factors that make the book intriguing.

Mrs Barry writes to set the record straight about Charles' parenting (she respected Charles) but of the two, she is clearly besotted with Diana, rather than Charles. In fact, she makes it clear that while both could have a temper, it was Charles who always apologized and made up for his outbursts (with servants) when they happened. The tales she tells of Diana's temper outbursts are harrowing. Diana in a temper tantrum could be extremely hurtful to those around her and she never apologized (according to Mrs Barry). Yet of the two Mrs Barry confesses to liking Diana better than Charles. Even though (she admits) Charles was the more fair employer! (P.S. I sometimes wonder who of her two children inherited Diana's temper - the 'Spencer temper'. Is it Harry?)

Anyway, Mrs Barry tells of her first meeting with Diana, when she got hired, and she explains that it was from that meeting that she was charmed. Through all the temper and nastiness, she maintained a preference for Diana. Curious, not so?

How she describes Diana, and Diana's effect, is very much along what you say, Marg, though for Mrs Barry it went deeper. The best way I can describe how she described it was: Diana was the quintessential aristocrat, the charming, faultless beauty, with immaculate skin, impeccable dress and mannerly grace. Diana had all the physical and mannerly attributes that made 'looking up to' the aristocratic class, as a class, understandable. Such people 'deserve' to be 'looked up to' because they are different, 'better' than the average person.

The foregoing is just me and some of my thoughts as to why Diana so captured the imagination back then. I recalled Mrs Barry's book when you spoke about Diana's effect in person. She as well said that Diana was far more beautiful in person than any picture of her showed. (Princess Charlotte may luck out and have her grandmother's genes!) :flowers:
 
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Oh dear, it's awful to watch. :sad: Just awful. Camilla-Camilla-Camilla. All woven through. It's Diana's spin and her 'friends' spinning it all yet again for another go-round. It's using 'facts' that we know were never 'facts' to begin with. Where to begin? I'm at a loss.

BTW I am again confronted with the images of the young Diana and stymied as to why she so captivated everyone. I will never understand it. There is nothing compelling regarding who I see in the video footage. I'm sure one had to have been there, and in a way I was, of course, but she never seemed interesting to me when I saw her in pictures when I was a little girl. Even now what I see is someone very puzzling and self-absorbed. I know a great deal more about her now, of course, so I understand why she was uncomfortable to watch. But that's hindsight.

Anyway, if one wants a rundown on the Diana Mythos, this is the 50 minutes you need to carve out of your life to watch. It's all there.


So I was right, from the 2 mins I watched it just seemed like Diana spin. Poor virginal sacrificial lamb being a victim of the evil husband, his evil mistress and evil family. I thought everybody had grown out of that pack of lies.
I do think Diana in the 80s was very pretty, especially when she is surrounded by people who look like Charles, Anne, Sarah Ferguson or are old like Elizabeth, Phillip, and Margaret, it really was like a rose blooming in the middle of a desert. But in the late 80's I feel she lost her appeal and wasn't as beautiful, but still compatible her to those around her she was still the standout. Plus the media loved her because she played to them and me great headlines even before she started working with them. Someone once theorized if Diana would be such a hit outside of the 80s with its Dynasry/Dallas mentality.
 
:previous: I was fortunate enough to meet Charles and Diana when they toured NZ. One thing that really struck me was how amazing Diana was. Having seen the TV, watched the Wedding, loathed her dress, seen copious quantities of magazines with her face on the cover, if I thought much about her it was just that I thought her a pretty sort of English rose. But the reality was quite breathtaking.

Charles was walking behind her looking at her in sheer adoration and, to be honest, the men present seemed utterly riveted by her, the women not so much. She was one of those women that walk into a room and everyone stops talking. She was sheer charisma, and in those early days I doubt even she was even aware of it.

To this day, I have never seen a photo of her that came anywhere near doing her justice. That is not to say they weren't perfect images of her, they were, but they were one dimensional. Without her presence and energy, she would have been just another pretty face.

The media snapped what they saw and sold her as a fairytale princess. A cynical world ate it up. Magic!

I met an older teacher once, who had met Diana here in the States. I asked about his meeting with Diana. He said, he will never forget how tall she was and her beautiful piercing eyes.

Diana was a beautiful and very athletic young woman. I'm reminded of her when I see William and Harry, but also anytime her sisters appear in public.
 
Maybe for some, but not for all. I wasn't a watcher of the high-glam evening dramas, but Diana had huge appeal to me. My own opinion is that most girls grow up with all kinds of fairytales in their heads as children, and Diana appeared to fit that archtype. She appeared to be a beautiful, kind young woman destined to live a happy, protected life. She appeared to be a throw-back to a past, supposedly more romantic time. Given the press and television coverage, which I think contributed a great deal to the whole 'fairytale' atmosphere around the courtship, engagement, and wedding, we had no hint of the rich and contradictory character beneath the image.

The 'soap opera' aspect didn't really begin until--at least in my memory--there was a big deal made over Princess Anne not attending Prince Harry's christening. Anne and Diana were made out to be rivals and at logger-heads, and talk about the relationships within the family really took off after that.

Someone once theorized if Diana would be such a hit outside of the 80s with its Dynasry/Dallas mentality.
 
So I was right, from the 2 mins I watched it just seemed like Diana spin. Poor virginal sacrificial lamb being a victim of the evil husband, his evil mistress and evil family. I thought everybody had grown out of that pack of lies.

Exactly what it was, now that you say it. A time warp. :cool: This could have been produced 20 years ago. It also blurred the lines between the facts, and even totally ignored the facts as we know them now (hence my time warp comment).

It appeared to be trying to establish a formal rivalry between the Queen and Diana, significantly painting the Queen as 'emotionally distant', never 'touching' her subjects (reference to gloves?). It tried to make out that the royal family could not deal with Diana's 'open emotional nature', yet we now know that the Queen (via Charles) arranged for Diana to see therapists throughout the 1980's. (Diana never cooperated with that). The BRF hardly had their heads in the sand regarding Diana's difficulties.

What does need to be said is that at the end of the show, in the last 10 minutes or so, relevant points were made (as well as interesting video shown of Diana's public lack of emotional control): one, that the flag is never flown half mast at BP, and when it was, that it was the Union Jack was explained (never heard of all that); and two, that the Queen's nod to the casket was a gesture the Queen makes at every funeral, and that it is a nod to 'death' not the person (I had never heard that).

I do think Diana in the 80s was very pretty, especially when she is surrounded by people who look like Charles, Anne, Sarah Ferguson or are old like Elizabeth, Phillip, and Margaret, it really was like a rose blooming in the middle of a desert. But in the late 80's I feel she lost her appeal and wasn't as beautiful, but still compatible her to those around her she was still the standout.

Here I will disagree. ;) I think Princess Anne in her younger days (everyone ages) was quite striking. Princess Margaret was always beautiful, and even into age (until she really began to age) comments were universal about the impact of her violet eyes.

The 'rose in the middle of the desert' is unfair to people who were simply aging, like Philip. You are effectively valuing youth over age. But that's our culture, not so?

Plus the media loved her because she played to them and me great headlines even before she started working with them. Someone once theorized if Diana would be such a hit outside of the 80s with its Dynasry/Dallas mentality.

Interesting point about Dynasty/Dallas. My mother loved those shows. :flowers: It's a pertinent point. I don't think Diana would survive these days. I don't think she was surviving then, though. It was just a matter of time until the tide of public opinion would have turned on her imo, especially as she aged, and either married badly or kept with a string of lovers. Fame is fickle.

In all my reading, it's clear that every aggressive PR move Diana made was calculated to throw off bad press. She was wildly successful with her gambits, except for the last one, the Panorama Interview, which cost her the marriage and the HRH, and so much more that is generally never mentioned. Namely, from the Panorama Interview forwards all social doors were closed to Diana (even her brother closed the door on her :rolleyes: which makes his rant at her funeral all the more despicable imo).

It's such a sad story. It really is. Tragic. "If only...." she had handled herself with more grace under pressure, and abided by the 'rules of her class' regarding arranged marriages (which I've no doubt her marriage was). But it was not to be. She allowed her popularity to go to her head and it destroyed her life. Sad. :sad:
 
Maybe for some, but not for all. I wasn't a watcher of the high-glam evening dramas, but Diana had huge appeal to me. My own opinion is that most girls grow up with all kinds of fairytales in their heads as children, and Diana appeared to fit that archetype. She appeared to be a beautiful, kind young woman destined to live a happy, protected life. She appeared to be a throw-back to a past, supposedly more romantic time. Given the press and television coverage, which I think contributed a great deal to the whole 'fairytale' atmosphere around the courtship, engagement, and wedding, we had no hint of the rich and contradictory character beneath the image.

This goes along with my own thinking when trying to unravel this mystery of her appeal. :flowers: I think the housekeeper, Mrs Barry, was alluding to that throw-back to an aristocratic archetype in how she spoke of Diana's impact. She felt she was in the presence of a 'high-born' aristocrat and she was honored to serve her, even when it was more hellish than heavenly.

Just an aside: I personally think Diana threw away Charles. She could have easily competed with any other woman in Charles' head (if that was what was happening). It seems very sad but what is never grasped is that Diana may have not wanted to make-it-up with Charles. She may have liked that he was engaged elsewhere and that she was free to have her own lovers. It was only when the press caught wind of the life-style of the Princess of Wales (because, unlike Charles, she was not discreet) and were about to blow-the-whistle on her (Squidgy-Tapes helped), that she set to work on the Morton book and decided to throw Camilla under the bus to save her own reputation. It's all pretty seamy when you really look at it. :sad:

The 'soap opera' aspect didn't really begin until--at least in my memory--there was a big deal made over Princess Anne not attending Prince Harry's christening. Anne and Diana were made out to be rivals and at logger-heads, and talk about the relationships within the family really took off after that.

I hadn't heard this. Interesting. :flowers:
 
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:previous:

Diana's interview alone wasn't the cause of her divorce and lost of her title HRH. It was her and Charles's antics that did them in. In reality, she and Charles were looking for some sort of clarity in their marriage and relationship. They wished things had been different, but they knew they they were headed for a divorce.

I think Diana tried to handle things carefully. Her emotional state over her marriage did get the best of her. With all that pressure, most people would have made lots of mistakes too. In the end, I don't think Diana destroyed herself. She was about to embark on a new beginning, but her summer trip to Paris did her in.

I'm not sure it's right to be upset with Diana over not being able to put up with her husband love for another woman.
 
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Diana's interview alone wasn't the cause of her divorce and lost of her title HRH. It was her and Charles's antics that did them in. In reality, she and Charles were looking for some sort of clarity in their marriage and relationship. They wished things had been different, but they knew they they were headed for a divorce.

This is a slightly different 'take' on events than I have come away with. Charles had asked his mother for permission to divorce a few months before the Panorama Interview, but was denied.

It's unclear what Charles' 'antics' would have been at this point that would have caused a divorce. It appears his mother The Queen did not think anything Charles was doing warranted granting her son his wish for a divorce.

The Panorama Interview was another matter. Remember that the impetus for Diana undertaking the Panorama Interview was twofold (she always had a PR gambit when she did these things): to address (and confess) the adultery with James Hewitt, and to 'explain away' the fact that she was avoiding police action against her for stalking another man via harassing phone calls. Diana simply did not understand that she needed to stop talking to the press.

When the Panorama Interview occurred, the Queen immediately began the process of divorce by writing a letter to Diana and calling both Charles and Diana in to discuss divorce. Within a short few weeks Diana was headed to divorce court, whereas before Panorama the Queen was staying that action, insisting that Charles work with the situation.

(It is widely thought that the divorce was precipitated by Diana's expressions of doubt in the interview that Charles was ready for the 'top job' and calling herself the queen of people's hearts. While those two factoids may have been the cherry-on-top, it's my opinion that the issues confronting the Queen at that moment were far more global. (I don't think she's that petty). Diana was simply not understanding that there were rules to this royal game, and breaching those rules could mean a republic. It was with that interview that the Queen was persuaded that Diana needed to be excluded for the protection of the monarchy. JMO).

I think Diana tried to handle things carefully.

Not if you go by the video of her at that time, shown in this television show, in fact (but one has to persist to the last 30 minutes to get those bits). She was behaving atrociously for the cameras. She knew full-well what she was doing, too.

Her emotional state over her marriage did get the best of her. With all that pressure, most people would have made lots of mistakes too.

I don't think she cared one fig for her marriage at that point. She was too busy having love affairs and putting the press off her scent. That was the pressure she was under, not the marriage. Claiming it was the marriage was her PR gambit to get the public's attention off the fact that the Princess of Wales was sleeping with (lots of) other men, to the point of even stalking them. She succeeded.

In the end, I don't think Diana destroyed herself. She was about to embark on a new beginning, but her summer trip to Paris did her in.

Well, we can disagree here. She had a pretty good life as HRH, married to Charles. It was what she had wanted. it was why she went so far as to lie to Charles about liking blood sports and loving the country life. She won the Prince. Then she threw it all away. We know she wasn't happy about that in the end. She told a friend as much. She cried about it in public. She was not happy.

I'm not sure it's right to be upset with Diana over not being able to put up with her husband love for another woman.

But she had a pretty significant love for another man across years. You seem to be ignoring that Diana was not in love with Charles. She likely never was. (or she went in-and-out of love with him as it suited her). She married the title, not the man imo. She loved the lifestyle. In the end, she missed it.
 
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This is a slightly different 'take' on events than I have come away with. Charles had asked his mother for permission to divorce a few months before the Panorama Interview, but was denied.

It's unclear what Charles' 'antics' would have been at this point that would have caused a divorce. It appears his mother The Queen did not think anything Charles was doing warranted granting her son his wish for a divorce.

The Panorama Interview was another matter. Remember that the impetus for Diana undertaking the Panorama Interview was twofold (she always had a PR gambit when she did these things): to address (and confess) the adultery with James Hewitt, and to 'explain away' the fact that she was avoiding police action against her for stalking another man via harassing phone calls. Diana simply did not understand that she needed to stop talking to the press.

When the Panorama Interview occurred, the Queen immediately began the process of divorce by writing a letter to Diana and calling both Charles and Diana in to discuss the divorce with her. Within a short few weeks Diana was headed to divorce court, whereas before Panorama the Queen was staying that action, insisting that Charles work with the situation.

(It is widely thought that the divorce was precipitated by Diana's expressions of doubt in the interview that Charles was ready for the 'top job' and calling herself the queen of people's hearts. While those two factoids may have been the cherry-on-top, it's my opinion that the issues confronting the Queen at that moment were far more global. (I don't think she's that petty). Diana was simply not understanding that there were rules to this royal game, and breaching those rules could mean a republic. It was with that interview that the Queen was persuaded that Diana needed to be excluded for the protection of the monarchy. JMO).



Not if you go by the video of her at that time, shown in this television show, in fact (but one has to persist to the last 30 minutes to get those bits). She was behaving atrociously for the cameras. She knew full-well what she was doing, too.



I don't think she cared one fig for her marriage at that point. She was too busy having love affairs and putting the press off her scent.



Well, we can disagree here. She had a pretty good life as HRH, married to Charles. It was what she had wanted. it was why she went so far as to lie to Charles about liking blood sports and loving the country life. She won the Prince. Then she there it all away. I know she wasn't happy about that in the end. She told a friend as much. She cried in public.



But she had a pretty significant love for another man across years. You seem to be ignoring that Diana was not in love with Charles. She likely never was. She married the title, not the man.

Everything Charles and Diana did over time is what lead to The Queen writing to her son and daughter-in-law about divorcing. It all was too much to bear and the media was having a ball with the Waleses drama.

Diana did actually love the country. She grew up on the Sandringham Estate and Althorp and enjoyed the freedom countrylife had to to offer. She did not care for blood sports though. She tried her hand on shooting, but it wasn't for her. Which is okay for some members of the family, it's not a sport for everyone and they understand that. Diana also loved spending time at Sandringham during Christmas and often visited her former childhood home, Park House, and took long walks on the estate.

The Queen knew Diana since she was a baby. She was very good friends with Diana's father and of course knew the Spencer's very well. Like many mother-in-laws and daughter-in-law relationships, The Queen and Diana had their moments, but they loved and respected each other very much.

Charles and Diana did love each other and that love helped produce William and Harry. They just couldn't make their marriage work and they had tons of pressure on them. It's sad of course, but this happens to many families, just not with the entire world on their shoulders.
 
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