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  #101  
Old 01-02-2005, 10:11 PM
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Quite frankly I don't think an excuse of a personal vacation cuts it.
Unless she's deathly sick or missing in the tsunami there's no excuse. It's utterly selfish to continue vacationing for personal reasons under these circumstances.
(I mean no ill will towards the CP)
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  #102  
Old 01-03-2005, 12:00 AM
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The number of missing is now listed as 2,915 from Sweden. It is safe and sad to say that the the large majority of those people are now dead. That number has been lowered by 600 from the previous figure but that is of little comfort to those affected. This is by far the worst natural disaster(excluding famines and crop failures which happened over a much longer time of course anyway) to hit the Swedish people in its long and proud history. There are also more than 30,000 Thais, Indians and Somalians who have immigrated to Sweden. We must not forget the toll that this took on their communities and relatives as well back in their ancient lands. This disaster affects all walks of Swedish life.

Some videos of the tsunami are here.

And now I read this from the wires:

"Indonesia increased its death toll from last week's devastating earthquake and tsunamis to 94,081 on Monday, raising the total number of people reported killed in 11 countries in the Indian Ocean basin to at least 137,321."

There is an excellent hour long program on the whole tsunami, relief efforts and other things surrounding this crisis on the BBC homepage.

http://news.bbc.co.uk BBC TV special. Check it out.
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  #103  
Old 01-03-2005, 01:13 AM
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OK...I don't usually post here but I thought that I would add my two cents to the discussion about the Crown Princess. If all she is doing during this crisis is enjoying some personal vacation time then her actions are inexcusable. However, the Crown Princess had done and exemplary job up to this point. I don’t think that it is unreasonable to give her the benefit of the doubt. All that has been said is that she is “abroad”. Nobody knows for sure that she is sitting on a beach somewhere with a drink in her hand ignoring the devastation. Perhaps we should learn more details of her whereabouts and actions before we turn the dogs loose on her. There maybe a legitimate reason that she has yet to appear and if it turns out that there isn’t one then she should have to answer to the critics. And there will be a great many of them, I’m sure.

Crystal
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  #104  
Old 01-03-2005, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar
However, the Crown Princess had done and exemplary job up to this point. I don’t think that it is unreasonable to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Perhaps we should learn more details of her whereabouts and actions before we turn the dogs loose on her.

Good points. And I agree that I have made a factieous comment earlier .... I don't excuse myself under the motto "don't complain, don't explain".

On another MB, reference was made to the fact that Haakon was absent too. And Martha-Luise.

These are all individuals who imho have "delivered". Inasmuch as they are pretenders to the throne, given that they are in second place and entitled to a rest -- let us NOT forget far from the INTRUSIVE MEDIA, this a poignant opportunity for the holders of the crowns/thrones to (re)assert or maintain their positions.

Imho, that is surely the case with the Swedish King. All the other monarchies appear (to me) to be more accepted by their folk, so the actions of their monarchies is a form of indirect leadership.

...

Getting back to the absence of Haakon, imo there appears to be no backlash there .... why, may I ask?

If anything, his father is (in my eyes, after last years operation) in poorer shape than Victoria's father?

The other European countries have also incurred their losses, and surely all the royals there were NOT present at services. Was their absence at this MB as questioned as it is for Victoria here?

if anything, at least .... majority here have no influence one way or the other (or couldn't care in the least) what the internal or foreign policies of the Swedish Royal Family are.
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  #105  
Old 01-03-2005, 01:50 AM
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Well, Haakon has no really big excuse. It was written that he and Mette-Marit are in Brazil. I assume with Marius. Now itīs not good to change vacation plans for young children but surely, he could have come back for a day or so. The young children excuse can go only so far. I mean we didnīt see Nikolai and Felix at the ceremony today either. Itīs understandable but still. They were in Norway on Christmas Day and left shortly thereafter. I donīt know if Harald is in a more precarious situation, illness aside, than Carl Gustaf. But the impact on Norway, while strong, has not been as big as the impact on Sweden. The Swedish king has certainly reasserted it would seem. But for me, it was his Christmas Day Speech which made him bounce back in my eyes. But others may say that he is reasserting his hold on the crown in this time of crisis. But I disagree with that. I just think he is doing what we expect of him. The Queen as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by moosey60
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...divided29.html

I cut and pasted some parts of the article. See the whole thing by clicking on the link. These are some stories about four Swedish children:
PHUKET, Thailand — When the raging ocean waters subsided, 7-year-old Karl Nilsson from Sweden thought he had been transported to another city. He was still in the same place, but his parents and two brothers, with him moments earlier, had vanished....
Thanks for posting this. I want to post a story which Iīm sure many saw about a woman who ran into the water to save her children. She survived as did her children.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4141733.stm
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  #106  
Old 01-03-2005, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennism
a story which Iīm sure many saw about a woman who ran into the water to save her children. She survived as did her children.
Then there's that (english?) guy who hoisted his pregnant wife on a roof, because he knew she couldn't swim .... and lost his own life.
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  #107  
Old 01-03-2005, 02:19 AM
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I must have missed that story. I heard of many people who tried to save their children or their spouse and lost their lives instead. So sad.
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  #108  
Old 01-03-2005, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer2002de
anyway when he realized that 35 mio US$ is not very much he was clever enough to increas it to 350 Mio US$. And he sent his brother there to gather some infos for him. And as governor of Florida his brother has some sort of knowledge in that things. Su one must say George was clever enough to change his opinion quickly enough when he realized that he made some mistake!
George is clever enough to surround himself with clever people who advise him well (sorry off topic, non royal)
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  #109  
Old 01-03-2005, 02:35 AM
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I thought this story already had its happy ending:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4133751.stm

Swedish dad finds lost baby son

A Swedish toddler has had an emotional reunion with his father after being found abandoned next to a road on the stricken Thai island of Phuket. A photo of Hannes Bergstroem taken after his rescue .....
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  #110  
Old 01-03-2005, 02:45 AM
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Yes, that is a great story with a semi-happy ending. They still havenīt found his mother. But at least he has his father.
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  #111  
Old 01-03-2005, 07:38 AM
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Pictures of Madeleine and Carl Philip leaving the TV-studio (from VG and Dagbladet):

Pictures from Fotomarktplatz:
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  #112  
Old 01-03-2005, 10:49 AM
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Humera and Lena thanks for public the pics from TV-Gala. It is a great shock for all swedish and other people in the world. My thought are by the people.
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  #113  
Old 01-03-2005, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrhcp
Getting back to the absence of Haakon, imo there appears to be no backlash there .... why, may I ask?

The other European countries have also incurred their losses, and surely all the royals there were NOT present at services. Was their absence at this MB as questioned as it is for Victoria here?

if anything, at least some (members of what's occurred to me is a "henclub" here) should render some apologies. The majority here have no influence one way or the other (or couldn't care in the least) what the internal or foreign policies of the Swedish Royal Family are.
I think there is a lack of a backlash against Haakon and the other royals because the presence of their family hasn't been as evident or as at the forefront as the King and Queen of Sweden's. While we have seen Harald and Sonja attend some church services, as we have seen Margrethe and Henrik, it seems to me that Carl Gustav and Silvia have had a much more public presence on this tragedy than their other Scandinavian counterparts. We have seen Carl Gustav issue a public statement, attend church on (two?) occasions, as well as a fundraiser, he and the Queen contributing personal monetary donations themselves.

I am not saying that the other Scandinavian royals have done less or that their contributions are less significant, just that we have seen more of the Swedish King and Queen, and hence it is natural to wonder where the CP is.

If Margrethe and Henrik had had as much of a presence from the beginning of this tragedy and Frederik and Mary didn't make any sort of appearance I think there would be as much disappointment expressed and as much of a backlash against them.
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  #114  
Old 01-03-2005, 11:28 AM
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The Royal Court reports that the King and Queen visited the Karolinska University Hospital yesterday, Sunday afternoon. They received information, met with some patients who have survived the catastrophe and met with staff to whom they expressed their appreciation of their work.
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  #115  
Old 01-03-2005, 11:34 AM
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Of course Haakon has "deserved" the same amount of criticism (not that it would count, the Royals high likely donīt read at TRF). We could make many excuses (if Haakon and his little family are really in Brazil, then it would have been stressy for the children to go there and a few hours again back... Norway has lost less victims...the ppl around Victoria, most of all Daniel Westling, have maybe counted on her, so that she went with/to them...4 other members of the Royal family were there...the king and the queen in both countries do a lot...Haakon and Victoria can also do something in the future-the ppl will need help and support for a longer time...)
But this simply doesnīt change the facts. Now they are not here! And that, what is disappointing me, is simply, that they donīt feel the need to help! I had (and in a way still have. Itīs not, that they donīt get a "second chance") an other image of them in my mind, esp. of Victoria.
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  #116  
Old 01-03-2005, 01:47 PM
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If thats all fair or unfair is one thing. But I have got the impression that Viktoria is much more popular then others. As I have got the impression that the Swedish Royal Court is activley promoting her as successor to her dad (see Kings christmas speech), thats not so obvious in Norway with Hakoon for example.
On my opinion it seems as they are quite successfull in doing so. But now this strikes back. I do not believe that the public makes a difference between her father (Head of state) and and her (often credited here as: future Head of state).
Would her Dad have been staying on holiday, I think a lot of people would be quite angry about that and he would get a lot of bad press. I think its somehow unfair, but on the other hand side it really shows that Viktoria is widley accepted and is not "just" a crown princess but regarded as equal to her dad, as she is seen as "future head of state".
Thats why a lot of persons are disappointed now. If there is something to learn is that Viktoria is seen equal to her dad and that she is measured like him, a head of state. Let's hope that they manage to take care of that in future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena
Victoria, most of all Daniel Westling, have maybe counted on her, so that she went with/to them...4 other members of the Royal family were there...the king and the queen in both countries do a lot...Haakon and Victoria can also do something in the future-the ppl will need help and support for a longer time...)
But this simply doesnīt change the facts. Now they are not here! And that, what is disappointing me, is simply, that they donīt feel the need to help! I had (and in a way still have. Itīs not, that they donīt get a "second chance") an other image of them in my mind, esp. of Victoria.
I think Haakon should ask himself whats going on if the public does not care. This means something like: His Crown Prince, thats it. While Viktoria has to realize that the public really cares about her.
Anyway if the press writes on that she cannot say: I was happy to be on holidays with Daniel etc or some other reasons. The only thing she could do was to commit that she misestimated the whole situation and made a mistake by not going home. Excuses might get the things even worse.
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  #117  
Old 01-03-2005, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mixer2002de
I think Haakon should ask himself whats going on if the public does not care...
Anyway if the press writes on that she cannot say...
Yes, "If". If the press wonīt write about that, neither Haakon nor Victoria will spend many thoughts on their absence.

But I think you made a very good point! Haakon also got an special education, and he has given many interviews, heīs hard working and regularly in the press. But I can see the difference, you have mentioned. The Royal court and Victoria herself emphasize Victoriaīs position as future queen of Sweden, partly through statements of Victoria, partly through special "happenings" for the press (just think of Victoria on this farm in 2003). In former times of sorrow she also was present as if it would be a matter of course (church service for Anna Lindh, it was even planned, that she should have attended as only one the funeral of Swedenīs beloved author Astrid Lindgren...then ppl protested and her parents attended as well).
Yes, I think you are right...the focus on Victoria (she gives most interviews for the press, tells often about her role as future queen...), I guess this is one reason, why we here react so strongly. She isnīt just the "replacement" for the future, but already an important part of the monarchy.
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  #118  
Old 01-03-2005, 03:30 PM
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Hi everyone,


Does the press say when Victoria is coming back? are there some news related to her absence?
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  #119  
Old 01-03-2005, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer2002de
I think Haakon should ask himself whats going on if the public does not care. This means something like: His Crown Prince, thats it. While Viktoria has to realize that the public really cares about her.
Anyway if the press writes on that she cannot say: I was happy to be on holidays with Daniel etc or some other reasons. The only thing she could do was to commit that she misestimated the whole situation and made a mistake by not going home. Excuses might get the things even worse.
you would think that in scandinavian countries a crown prince or princess are equals.
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  #120  
Old 01-03-2005, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena
Yes

The Royal court and Victoria herself emphasize Victoriaīs position as future queen of Sweden, partly through statements of Victoria, partly through special "happenings" for the press (just think of Victoria on this farm in 2003).
Hmm .... there are also the other subtle considerations.
The law in Sweden got changed from men as monarchs to first born, after the second got born, while in Norway the law was also changed, but it was acknowledged that the second born could still be king .... how that must "grate" on Martha-Luise (who would be a good queen in her own right).

Two, with your comments of above, I wonder if there might not be some public resistance to the changed law of succession in Sweden, which the Royal Court recognizes?

Three, it seems to me, that tradition is more a woman's perogative. And it seems to me, men can do no wrong (as seen from the woman's eyes) while women are more critical of their peers?
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