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  #441  
Old 07-15-2015, 10:18 PM
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One change that would have taken place if Carl Philip were crown prince: Sofia would not be a Bernadotte now. It's one thing to marry the third in line to the throne; it's another when the new royal bride is the future queen. The standards would be higher for the wife of a sovereign; and with Sofia's past it would be difficult for Carl Gustaf and the Riksdag to approve of the marriage. Of course there's the case of Mette-Marit of Norway; but the Norwegian Royal Family dealt with her past head on. Before their wedding MM spoke before Norwegians, addressed her past, admitted regret, and asked the people to give her a chance. From what I've seen, it worked, unless things drastically changed over the years. (I don't follow the NRF). The SRF didn't take that approach with Sofia, but I believe the game plan would have been different if Carl Philip were heir apparent.
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  #442  
Old 07-16-2015, 02:22 AM
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^^^^^^^ well lucky for P.C-P and P.Sofia then, because they seem a well-matched couple, very happy and at-ease with eachother
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  #443  
Old 07-16-2015, 08:22 AM
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I am not so sure CP would have not married Sofia: maybe it would have taken longer for him to marry her but as he is a man and not a woman I am sure CG would have given him a pass, frankly...
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  #444  
Old 07-16-2015, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
One change that would have taken place if Carl Philip were crown prince: Sofia would not be a Bernadotte now. It's one thing to marry the third in line to the throne; it's another when the new royal bride is the future queen. The standards would be higher for the wife of a sovereign; and with Sofia's past it would be difficult for Carl Gustaf and the Riksdag to approve of the marriage. Of course there's the case of Mette-Marit of Norway; but the Norwegian Royal Family dealt with her past head on. Before their wedding MM spoke before Norwegians, addressed her past, admitted regret, and asked the people to give her a chance. From what I've seen, it worked, unless things drastically changed over the years. (I don't follow the NRF). The SRF didn't take that approach with Sofia, but I believe the game plan would have been different if Carl Philip were heir apparent.

I really doubt that would be the case.

If Haakon could marry Mette-Mait, and Felipe could marry Letizia, I see no reason why Carl Philip could not marry Sofia, even if he was still the heir.
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  #445  
Old 07-16-2015, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I really doubt that would be the case.

If Haakon could marry Mette-Mait, and Felipe could marry Letizia, I see no reason why Carl Philip could not marry Sofia, even if he was still the heir.

Besides, Victoria, who is the heir to the throne, was allowed to marry Daniel, who might not have a "a past" in Mette-Marit's or Sofia's sense, but was nonetheless an unsuitable consort for a future queen.

Having said that, we should not forget that getting the King's consent to get married was not an easy task either for Victoria or for CP, and that it actually took a long time before they could get engaged respectively to Daniel and Sofia.
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  #446  
Old 07-16-2015, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
One change that would have taken place if Carl Philip were crown prince: Sofia would not be a Bernadotte now.
If Carl Philip had been the crown prince it's not likely that he would have had met Sofia when he did, as his upbringing and education would have been totally different. (Unless you believe that some people are destined to meet and marry.)
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  #447  
Old 07-18-2015, 06:33 PM
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The Change of the Act of Succession - 1979 Constitution Change

Don't think there would have been any difference. The King was Crown Prince from the age of 4 and until he became King, his private life (with the exception of the heavier workload and more prominent representation duties) did not differ alot from how Carl Philip is living today. So yes i do belive that we would have had a Crown Princess Sofia today had that been the case.

That change in 1980 was in my opinion an extremly lucky change for the survival of the swedish monarchy, no matter what the King and Queen thinks about it.
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  #448  
Old 07-18-2015, 08:06 PM
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I'd agree with Meraude and say that there's a great chance they wouldn't have met had Carl Philip been the Crown Prince. However, had they met, I don't think it's at all unlikely that they would have ended up marrying – especially not with the King's alleged favouritism of CP. And that's fine, I think (that he could have married her, that is, favouritism is never fine). Royal or not, you should be allowed to spend your life with who you want to spend your life with.
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  #449  
Old 07-18-2015, 08:08 PM
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I think if CP had remained THE CP then no it's unlikely he would of ever met or even considered marrying Sofia. His life would of had a very different trajectory.


LaRae
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  #450  
Old 07-18-2015, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
One change that would have taken place if Carl Philip were crown prince: Sofia would not be a Bernadotte now. It's one thing to marry the third in line to the throne; it's another when the new royal bride is the future queen. The standards would be higher for the wife of a sovereign; and with Sofia's past it would be difficult for Carl Gustaf and the Riksdag to approve of the marriage. Of course there's the case of Mette-Marit of Norway; but the Norwegian Royal Family dealt with her past head on. Before their wedding MM spoke before Norwegians, addressed her past, admitted regret, and asked the people to give her a chance. From what I've seen, it worked, unless things drastically changed over the years. (I don't follow the NRF). The SRF didn't take that approach with Sofia, but I believe the game plan would have been different if Carl Philip were heir apparent.
I am not 100% sure but I don't think that the Norwegian Royal Family confronted Mette-Marit's past head on, or at least not preemptively. Mette-Marit, with Haakon by her side, gave an emotional interview a few days before her wedding where she said she regretted her past. The majority of Norwegians either supported the relationship/marriage or were indifferent but those who did not were apparently very vocal, many of whom raised security concerns. It seemed like Crown Prince Haakon was going to marry her even if it meant removing himself from the line of succession but it did seem like they they were going to make an effort to address to opposition and not incur the upheaval that would undoubtedly have happened if Haakon removed himself from the line of succession. While there were people who oppose Sofia, the opposition was not as intense as it was with Mette-Marit and therefore there was no need for her to don a hair shirt over her past.

I think it boils down to the will of the people, what one nation approves does not necessarily mean that another nation will approve those same circumstances/conditions. Having said that, side by side, IMO Mette-Marit was a harder sell than Sofia. Mette-Marit's ex, and more importantly the father of her child, had been convicted of possession of a significant amount of cocaine during the same timeframe that Mette-Marit's relationship with the Crown Prince was getting serious and she was seen as a potential Crown Princess and ultimately Queen.
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  #451  
Old 07-18-2015, 09:29 PM
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Don't think there would have been any difference. The King was Crown Prince from the age of 4 and until he became King, his private life (with the exception of the heavier workload and more prominent representation duties) did not differ alot from how Carl Philip is living today. So yes i do belive that we would have had a Crown Princess Sofia today had that been the case.

That change in 1980 was in my opinion an extremly lucky change for the survival of the swedish monarchy, no matter what the King and Queen thinks about it.
Which begs the question: is primogeniture the best way to decide who the heir is , or is it better to do as in many Islamic monarchies where the King picks his successor or some lkind of election is held within the family ? I started a thread about that in the Royalty Present, Past, and Future Forums.
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  #452  
Old 07-18-2015, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard View Post
Don't think there would have been any difference. The King was Crown Prince from the age of 4 and until he became King, his private life (with the exception of the heavier workload and more prominent representation duties) did not differ alot from how Carl Philip is living today. So yes i do belive that we would have had a Crown Princess Sofia today had that been the case.
So you think that if Carl Philip had been crown prince he would have chosen to study design and drive race cars as he does today? I doubt that would been a part of his life as a crown prince. His education would have been similar to Victoria's and there would have been other women for him to date, maybe there's a "Silvia" somewhere he never met for not being the crown prince?
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  #453  
Old 07-18-2015, 10:41 PM
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Which begs the question: is primogeniture the best way to decide who the heir is , or is it better to do as in many Islamic monarchies where the King picks his successor or some kind of election is held within the family ? I started a thread about that in the Royalty Present, Past, and Future Forums.
But if you're going to move away from primogeniture for selection of your Head of State, and move to a system where the current Head of State picks his successor, or where there is some kind of election within the ruling family, why not go the whole hog and have the Head of State selected by election by the whole adult population? Why should the Head of State only be able to be selected from the members of one privileged family?

That was a rhetorical question. I am not seeking to start a discussion about whether Sweden should republic, merely to point out that if you are going to move from primogeniture to some form of election process, wider-reaching questions of election arise.
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  #454  
Old 07-18-2015, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Meraude View Post
So you think that if Carl Philip had been crown prince he would have chosen to study design and drive race cars as he does today? I doubt that would been a part of his life as a crown prince. His education would have been similar to Victoria's and there would have been other women for him to date, maybe there's a "Silvia" somewhere he never met for not being the crown prince?
He could, and probably would, still be driving race cars. It's not impossible per se for heirs to abandon their hobbies completely – our Frederik still sails and is a keen sportsman. I actually reckon that CP would be much like Frederik had he been Crown Prince. As for other women to date – sure, there have been other women regardless – only he met and fell in love with Sofia and chose her. I don't see why that shouldn't have been possible had he been the Crown Prince?
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  #455  
Old 07-19-2015, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Meraude View Post
So you think that if Carl Philip had been crown prince he would have chosen to study design and drive race cars as he does today? I doubt that would been a part of his life as a crown prince. His education would have been similar to Victoria's and there would have been other women for him to date, maybe there's a "Silvia" somewhere he never met for not being the crown prince?
I agree. If Carl Philip would have been the crown prince, would he have had time to compete in racing, and on the other hand, car racing is seen as a rather dangerous sport, so it may well have been that it would have been forbidden for a crown prince to race.
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  #456  
Old 07-19-2015, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
As for other women to date – sure, there have been other women regardless – only he met and fell in love with Sofia and chose her. I don't see why that shouldn't have been possible had he been the Crown Prince?
And if he was already engaged or married if he happened to met Sofia? Even if being single then, it's not certain he would have considered a marriage with her, as I think that a person's personality is to a degree shaped by their upbringing. He would not have been exactly the same person as he is today if he had been a crown prince.
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